Europe Should Accept Their Muslims:read:

[jimbeaux]

Check this out. As much as Europe bends over backwards to accomodate every whim of the Muslim population(immigrant or otherwise), we see this article. What does this author constitute as acceptance??? Are non-Muslims in Muslim countries offered anything near the accomodations of Muslims in the EU? If they are, please set me straight.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79DEB84A-927C



>> Edited by jimbeaux on Sunday 5th February 05:15

[Andy Mac]

Some people are never happy. When I was a resident of saudi for a while, I had to cover up my tattoos, wear troosers all the time, have no drink, etc... It's a shame they don't have these values in 'muslim' countries. I think the west is pretty tolerant, and welcoming for every belief, however any problems they experience tend to be self inflicted. I'm by no means anti-muslim, but articles like this, Abu Hamza, flag burning, and the recent idiocy regading the cartoons makes me think that some peeps are a little too insecure about their beliefs... Tolerence is a 2 way street.

[jimbeaux]

Andy Mac said:

Some people are never happy. When I was a resident of saudi for a while, I had to cover up my tattoos, wear troosers all the time, have no drink, etc... It's a shame they don't have these values in 'muslim' countries. I think the west is pretty tolerant, and welcoming for every belief, however any problems they experience tend to be self inflicted. I'm by no means anti-muslim, but articles like this, Abu Hamza, flag burning, and the recent idiocy regading the cartoons makes me think that some peeps are a little too insecure about their beliefs... Tolerence is a 2 way street.

Agreed; well put.

[voyds9]

That newspaper said:

Last year, a You GovPoll for the Commission of Racial Equality in Britain revealed that 83% of white Britons have no friends who are practising Muslims and that 94% say that they do not have any friends from outside their white communities.

All that says to me is that there are not many muslims here and that they live in insular communities. I know many muslims, hindus, sikhs, but generally don't consider them as friends, we have social interaction but fail to socialise.

That newspaper said:

In this context, the intensely rich and complex Islamic culture, which had fostered some of the most cosmopolitan and open societies in history, in Baghdad, Damascus, Cordoba, or Istanbul, has found itself reduced to a narrow set of vulgar stereotypes.

So what the British have had an empire rise and fall and all anyone remembers are the wars, oppression etc. Do you want us to harp on about a culture of slavery(Abbasid caliphs bought slaves from Turks), conscription(said slaves forced into army), murder(you became sultan by murdering your rivals), cultural destruction.

that newspaper said:

What we need to be asking is: to what extent are those who preach liberalism really liberal? How far are those who purport to be tolerant really tolerant? Can we still claim to live in an open society?

I am happy for you to have your culture but I don't want your culture to become my culture.

Tht newspaper said:

Soumaya Ghannoushi is a researcher in the history of ideas at the School of Oriental & African Studies, University of London.

That intensely rich and complex Islamic culture didn't help when you wanted to learn about it as you are studying here.

[pugwash7]

jimbeaux said:

Are non-Muslims in Muslim countries offered anything near the accomodations of Muslims in the EU?

Depends what country. Turkey, Syria, even Malaysia are genuinely secular whereas Saudi Arabia and Iran are clearly not.

I agree it's gone far too far in this direction though.
With all the war and carnage man-made religion has caused over the last 10/100/1000 years, you'd have thought god-botherers (of any denomination) could handle a little fun being poked at their ridiculous beliefs.

[bga]

pugwash7 said:

jimbeaux said: Are non-Muslims in Muslim countries offered anything near the accomodations of Muslims in the EU? Depends what country. Turkey, Syria, even Malaysia are genuinely secular whereas Saudi Arabia and Iran are clearly not. I agree it's gone far too far in this direction though. With all the war and carnage man-made religion has caused over the last 10/100/1000 years, you'd have thought god-botherers (of any denomination) could handle a little fun being poked at their ridiculous beliefs.

The Emirates have been reasonably tolerant for a while.
20 years ago I went to a Christian school in Oman which was tolerated.

As always it's always a vociferous minority who make it worse for the najoruty who just want to live in peace.

[police state]

jimbeaux said:

Check this out. As much as Europe bends over backwards to accomodate every whim of the Muslim population(immigrant or otherwise), we see this article. What does this author constitute as acceptance??? Are non-Muslims in Muslim countries offered anything near the accomodations of Muslims in the EU? If they are, please set me straight. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79DEB84A-927C >> Edited by jimbeaux on Sunday 5th February 05:15

I thought this guy made some incisive comments

www.faithfreedom.org/oped/kw60203.htm

Muslims use Western standards of behavior against Westerners while also holding Westerners to Islamic standards of behavior; while at the same time never accepting Western standards of behavior

[ZR1cliff]

jimbeaux said:

Andy Mac said: Some people are never happy. When I was a resident of saudi for a while, I had to cover up my tattoos, wear troosers all the time, have no drink, etc... It's a shame they don't have these values in 'muslim' countries. I think the west is pretty tolerant, and welcoming for every belief, however any problems they experience tend to be self inflicted. I'm by no means anti-muslim, but articles like this, Abu Hamza, flag burning, and the recent idiocy regading the cartoons makes me think that some peeps are a little too insecure about their beliefs... Tolerence is a 2 way street. Agreed; well put.

I find myself asking,is our country scared of making a stand against the factions of Muslim extremists,or do they simply not know how to handle the situation?

[love machine]

I'm on first name terms with Kamel from the Kebab house

[police state]

jimbeaux said:

Check this out. As much as Europe bends over backwards to accomodate every whim of the Muslim population(immigrant or otherwise), we see this article. What does this author constitute as acceptance??? Are non-Muslims in Muslim countries offered anything near the accomodations of Muslims in the EU? If they are, please set me straight. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79DEB84A-927C >> Edited by jimbeaux on Sunday 5th February 05:15

I thought her last paragraph, trite as it was, was perversley comical.

This from a women who wears a hijab, because the men of her faith insist that she does...

"What we need to be asking is: to what extent are those who preach liberalism really liberal? How far are those who purport to be tolerant really tolerant? Can we still claim to live in an open society?"

[Soumaya Ghannoushi is a researcher in the history of ideas at the School of Oriental & African Studies, University of London.]

[john75]

Muslims should accept that Europe is not an Islamic Country in fact I would go so far as to say Islam is the biggest treat to Europe's freedoms since Hitler.

However we the European should so tolenece of all cultures so long as those cultures do not seek impose their views on others.

[ZR1cliff]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Funny you should say that,ive gone decades without worrying about other peoples religous back grounds,now just recently because of the outside/inside threat i find a pull towards my religion,although i put it down towards trying to protect my own heritage.

(Jeez , i never realised, after reading the above statement through,i feel a personal threat towards my country and its beliefs. )

[baskey]

cheers for this - i am even more pissed off and feeling even more helpless...!



it makes me laugh all this business implying that the state keeps 'mnorities' down. there is a chinese family in my street and (according to another neighbour) they were really poor when the first moved to the uk, but they did some cr4p jobs, did some better jobs, got a loan and started a takeaway (sorry for the fact that this is a stereotypical business!) and now they own an ok house have got a newish crv and fecking evo, and i can watch their TV from my house.... now i am sorry but it's funny how they can do it with far less support from any 'community' but 'others' seem to struggle so flaming much. i image they get a bit of obuse from pi55ed roadmenders on a friday night, and i deplore this, but they aren't going out saying that we should all be communist or something..! arrghhh!

right i am going to play gran turismo unless of course any one feels this is offending them.

[yertis]

ZR1cliff said:

anonymous said: [redacted] Funny you should say that,ive gone decades without worrying about other peoples religous back grounds,now just recently because of the outside/inside threat i find a pull towards my religion,although i put it down towards trying to protect my own heritage. (Jeez , i never realised, after reading the above statement through,i feel a personal threat towards my country and its beliefs. )

Me too.

[JoolzB]

yertis said:

ZR1cliff said: anonymous said: [redacted] Funny you should say that,ive gone decades without worrying about other peoples religous back grounds,now just recently because of the outside/inside threat i find a pull towards my religion,although i put it down towards trying to protect my own heritage. (Jeez , i never realised, after reading the above statement through,i feel a personal threat towards my country and its beliefs. ) Me too.

Me three. I wonder if this could be resolved peacefully though, perhaps a game of top trumps of religious characters or somein.

[TeamD]

Doesn't seem much hope if this is the kind of stuff they spout...

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

and I think this bit particularly causes a problem with PH...

"O you who believe! do not forbid (yourselves) the good things which Allah has made lawful for you and do not exceed the limits; surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits."

The later obviously being the basis of Scamera Policy. They don't call them Talivans for nothing.

[pugwash7]

TeamD: How about you do the same thing again, this time with a Christian Bible?

[polus]

After reading that I believe that Soumaya Ghannoushi needs a good kick up the arse - But shes free to spout whatever crap she likes.

[TeamD]

pugwash7 said:

TeamD: How about you do the same thing again, this time with a Christian Bible?

Could do I suppose, but since I'm not Christrian it really doesn't matter to me. The point in fact was to demonstrate how wonderfully "tolerant" religion is when you have the opportunity to take things literally or out of context. In much the same way as it is claimed by moderate muslims the extremists are doing. But therein lies a problem because of the reverence and incontravertability (is that a real word?) of the holy texts of islam.

Sheesh! Lighten up man, torch some buildings or something.

[pugwash7]

TeamD said:

Could do I suppose, but since I'm not Christrian it really doesn't matter to me. The point in fact was to demonstrate how wonderfully "tolerant" religion is when you have the opportunity to take things literally or out of context. In much the same way as it is claimed by moderate muslims the extremists are doing. But therein lies a problem because of the reverence and incontravertability (is that a real word?) of the holy texts of islam.

I agree with you there. It's sad that some people in this thread think the answer to religious brainwashing and bigotry is even more religion.

[quote]
Sheesh! Lighten up man, torch some buildings or something. [/quote]

It's you who was ranting.

>> Edited by pugwash7 on Sunday 5th February 14:28