Gordon Brown as PM/Labour Leader - not right.
Gordon Brown as PM/Labour Leader - not right.
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Discussion

Yugguy

Original Poster:

10,728 posts

266 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
It's likely that in the not too distant future Gordon will become labour leader and therefore PM.

Personally I don't see this as right. At the last election the country voted as to wether they wanted a labour govt under Blair, not wether they wanted one under Brown. My feeling is that a change of leader like this should automatically trigger a general election.

Einion Yrth

19,575 posts

275 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
Actually, at least in theory, they voted for an individual to represent their interests in parliament - the party system has no standing in law IIRC.

Eric Mc

125,859 posts

296 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
In the UK the population vote for a governing party, not the PM. It has happened before that a PM resigns before the end of the parliament but it is rare.

However, at the very least, the Labour party members should be allowed some say in who leads them. I am very uncomfortable with this "annointment" of Brown as the next leader.

jacksdad

307 posts

293 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
Yugguy said:
At the last election the country voted as to wether they wanted a labour govt under Blair, not wether they wanted one under Brown.


I think you might find this is incorrect. IIRC you vote for a party in your consituancy and a local MP. If that MP leaves office then you have a right to a re-election. However, the party with the most number of seats elects a leader, not the individual voters.

Lets not confuse a Parliamentary Democracy, with a an electorial Democracy.

Agree with the sentiment though

xm5er

5,094 posts

279 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
Yugguy said:
It's likely that in the not too distant future Gordon will become labour leader and therefore PM.

Personally I don't see this as right. At the last election the country voted as to wether they wanted a labour govt under Blair, not wether they wanted one under Brown. My feeling is that a change of leader like this should automatically trigger a general election.


You'll find this icorrect for two reason, those stated above plus the fact that their pair of idiots said that it was going to happen in the run up to the election.

police state

4,380 posts

251 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
Yugguy said:
It's likely that in the not too distant future Gordon will become labour leader and therefore PM.

Personally I don't see this as right. At the last election the country voted as to wether they wanted a labour govt under Blair, not wether they wanted one under Brown. My feeling is that a change of leader like this should automatically trigger a general election.



Haven’t you noticed that Gordon Brown has been doing the rounds, Interviews in the newspapers, TV appearances, etc. All on subjects that our prime minister should be addressing. On the crucial ID card vote, he was strangely absent. His plane broke down in South Africa, and the British Prime Minister couldn't somehow get another one... He knew full well that the rebels in his party had been 'whipped' for that vote and that they would win it, guaranteeing Brown his first taste of sitting at the head of the table on a crucial parliamentary vote. The abuse that our democratic process has suffered at the hands of these Lawyers and Accountants will mean we will reap what they have sewn for years to come; and the vandalism is far from over yet. They don't need to circumvent the rules, they simply make them up or change them as they go along.

motco

17,662 posts

277 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
Actually, only about a quarter of the population eligible to vote actually cast their vote for Labour. On a turnout of about 65% a mere 35% voted Labour if I remember rightly.

sheepy

3,164 posts

280 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
I believe Charles Clarke recently made the point in the press along the lines of "What gives Gordon and Tony the right to assume they can trade the leadership between themselves?"

Also, on Channel-4 news the other night some crusty old labour guy said that he's find it hard to believe that both the conservatives and liberal-democrats could have a leadership election, but labour just had a coup from a smoke-filled room.

Don't think Gordy and Tone will get away with it somehow.

racefan_uk

2,935 posts

287 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
I still think Tony will hold out until the next election, which they'll probably lose the way they're going between them and Gordon will become the most bitter man in the country.

I can't see Tony letting the reins go, he likes the power and being the friend of George too much.

simpo two

93,053 posts

296 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
Gordon Brown: Dangerous and dishonest, a loose cannon with your money.

jacksdad

307 posts

293 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
sheepy said:
I believe Charles Clarke recently made the point in the press along the lines of "What gives Gordon and Tony the right to assume they can trade the leadership between themselves?"

Also, on Channel-4 news the other night some crusty old labour guy said that he's find it hard to believe that both the conservatives and liberal-democrats could have a leadership election, but labour just had a coup from a smoke-filled room.

Don't think Gordy and Tone will get away with it somehow.


Thatcher-Major-Hague-IDS-whoever it is now...

The only reason the Tories went to the members was because there was sufficient challenge internally. If the party determine that no one stands against him then it will be a done deal. Only when a suitable alternative is offered to the membership will there be any debate. Frankly, I cannot see that happening. The only way to deal with it is to make your feelings known at the next election, but as is a general theme, where is a viable alternative?

Yugguy

Original Poster:

10,728 posts

266 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
It's difficult, I mean who do you vote for if they're all wits?

james p

3,038 posts

268 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
police state said:
Yugguy said:
It's likely that in the not too distant future Gordon will become labour leader and therefore PM.

Personally I don't see this as right. At the last election the country voted as to wether they wanted a labour govt under Blair, not wether they wanted one under Brown. My feeling is that a change of leader like this should automatically trigger a general election.



Haven’t you noticed that Gordon Brown has been doing the rounds, Interviews in the newspapers, TV appearances, etc. All on subjects that our prime minister should be addressing. On the crucial ID card vote, he was strangely absent. His plane broke down in South Africa, and the British Prime Minister couldn't somehow get another one... He knew full well that the rebels in his party had been 'whipped' for that vote and that they would win it, guaranteeing Brown his first taste of sitting at the head of the table on a crucial parliamentary vote. The abuse that our democratic process has suffered at the hands of these Lawyers and Accountants will mean we will reap what they have sewn for years to come; and the vandalism is far from over yet. They don't need to circumvent the rules, they simply make them up or change them as they go along.


Maybe I am missing something, but should not the PM's place have been taken by his deputy?

jacksdad

307 posts

293 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all



Maybe I am missing something, but should not the PM's place have been taken by his deputy

Confusion agaiin between electing a party to make decisions for you (UK) or voting for individuals (US)

When we vote for a prty, we delgate authority to them to make decisions on our behalf. Only when they believe that they are on sticky ground (i.e. could lose their seat and rations) do they go to the house, Iraq a good example, very rarely do they go back to the people.

sheepy

3,164 posts

280 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
jacksdad said:
Thatcher-Major-Hague-IDS-whoever it is now...
But in each case, there was a leadership election (whether or not it involved just MPs or MPs and wider party). Tony and Gordon want to just slip Gordon into the party-leader role without even the MPs having a say.

B17NNS

18,506 posts

278 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
sheepy said:
I believe Charles Clarke recently made the point in the press along the lines of "Hic, hic, go on then, one more for the ditch"

jacksdad

307 posts

293 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
sheepy said:
jacksdad said:
Thatcher-Major-Hague-IDS-whoever it is now...
But in each case, there was a leadership election (whether or not it involved just MPs or MPs and wider party). Tony and Gordon want to just slip Gordon into the party-leader role without even the MPs having a say.


Response covered. Only because the party determined it was best practice. I stand to be corrected, but my memory of when I was involved in lobbying leads me to the belief that when we elect the party we give away the right to manage how they see fit. This applies to all parties.

We know they believe that as they have no creditable opposition their place is safe, so the actions they take will be less concerned with how you or I feel about process.

One of the least discussed, but most dangerous aspects of ineffective opposition.

billb

3,198 posts

296 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
completely agree with the first post whatever ure feelings bout blair it was he who was voted for not some fat jock they shouldnt be able to change the pm like that.

sheepy

3,164 posts

280 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
B17NNS said:
sheepy said:
I believe Charles Clarke recently made the point in the press along the lines of "Hic, hic, go on then, one more for the ditch"
Aren't you thinking of Charles Kennedy?

B17NNS

18,506 posts

278 months

Wednesday 15th February 2006
quotequote all
sheepy said:
Aren't you thinking of Charles Kennedy?

Doh!