Is this music download service legal?
Discussion
I found this while searching for some info on an artist I'm interested in and came across this website:
www.allofmp3.com/
The downloads are cheap as chips and they claim to be legal within Russia....but does it really mean it's legal outside Russia or at all?
www.allofmp3.com/
The downloads are cheap as chips and they claim to be legal within Russia....but does it really mean it's legal outside Russia or at all?
Forget it.
Just done a fake sign up and surprise the paypal system is offline but if you wish to send money and credit card information to some (maybe) dodgy russian mp3 service then fine...
http://account.allofmp3.com/reg/regis
BTW: That is NOT my name it is a crud email address
Added: But saying that:
www.misticriver.net/archive/index.php/t-12825.html
www.misticriver.net/archive/index.php/t-13466.html
I know it is dodgy but for the time being I will stay with Emule until the bitter end.
>> Edited by scared but happy on Friday 24th February 13:40
Just done a fake sign up and surprise the paypal system is offline but if you wish to send money and credit card information to some (maybe) dodgy russian mp3 service then fine...
http://account.allofmp3.com/reg/regis
BTW: That is NOT my name it is a crud email address
Added: But saying that:
www.misticriver.net/archive/index.php/t-12825.html
www.misticriver.net/archive/index.php/t-13466.html
I know it is dodgy but for the time being I will stay with Emule until the bitter end.
>> Edited by scared but happy on Friday 24th February 13:40
beanbag said:
I found this while searching for some info on an artist I'm interested in and came across this website:
www.allofmp3.com/
The downloads are cheap as chips and they claim to be legal within Russia....but does it really mean it's legal outside Russia or at all?
No, everytime you download a song, a russian child is abused or murdered.
Or if you download a Gary Glitter song, two.
www.museekster.com/allofmp3info.htm
I don't think it's illegal, as the royalties are being paid in accordance with Russian laws. Whether you are allowed to "import" the music tracks from Russia to your PC is another matter, I guess. But for the most part, I would say they are a legit operation operating within a copyright loophole.
>> Edited by john_p on Friday 24th February 14:17
I don't think it's illegal, as the royalties are being paid in accordance with Russian laws. Whether you are allowed to "import" the music tracks from Russia to your PC is another matter, I guess. But for the most part, I would say they are a legit operation operating within a copyright loophole.
>> Edited by john_p on Friday 24th February 14:17
I actually disagree with allofmp3 existence.
To me this is the definition of state theft. The state is giving itself rights to distribute something to which it has no rights to in the first place.
interweb said:
....under Russian law a collecting society like ROMS automatically has the right to license ANY intellectual property to Russian distributors, even if the author is not subject to Russian law.
To me this is the definition of state theft. The state is giving itself rights to distribute something to which it has no rights to in the first place.
tinman0 said:
I actually disagree with allofmp3 existence.
I like 'em, by charging for bandwidth used, the royalties are treated in the same way as radio broadcasts, so the money (OK not much, but more than if you just rip it off the P2P) goes straight to the Artist, not to the record companies which continue to make their product unusable for the honest user.
mattley said:
I actually disagree with allofmp3 existence.
I like 'em, by charging for bandwidth used, the royalties are treated in the same way as radio broadcasts, so the money (OK not much, but more than if you just rip it off the P2P) goes straight to the Artist, not to the record companies which continue to make their product unusable for the honest user.
An mp3 is say 5MB in size. They are offering 250MB for $5? So thats 25 songs for $5. Or 1 song for 20c.
Of that 20c, lets say 50% gets paid to the royalty company in Russia, so thats 10c, they probably take another 50% to cover their overheads, so that leaves 5c for the songwriter and the performers.
edited to add:
in the long run - whats the difference between the record company and the mp3 seller in your scenario? everyone is continuing to make the larger share of the product created by someone else?
>> Edited by tinman0 on Friday 24th February 15:44
tinman0 said:
in the long run - whats the difference between the record company and the mp3 seller in your scenario? everyone is continuing to make the larger share of the product created by someone else?
I can't imagine the artist making much more through more legitimate means, to be honest. Its not like they make £10 from a sale of an album or something. Biggest losers from services such as Allofmp3 are publishing, distribution and marketing. Whether or not an artists needs these "services" that are provided to them by the labels is a matter for a whole other debate.
The Dude said:
in the long run - whats the difference between the record company and the mp3 seller in your scenario? everyone is continuing to make the larger share of the product created by someone else?
I can't imagine the artist making much more through more legitimate means, to be honest. Its not like they make £10 from a sale of an album or something. Biggest losers from services such as Allofmp3 are publishing, distribution and marketing. Whether or not an artists needs these "services" that are provided to them by the labels is a matter for a whole other debate.
Ok, lets say you are an artist.
You have the chance of picking up a recording contract and being paid £100k up front by a record company and then say 4% royalties after the first £100k has been repaid.
Or
You can have zero up front, and possibly be paid 3% sometime in the future by an unknown unregulated Russian body that you have absolutely no power over that hasn't got your name and address.
tinman0 said:
in the long run - whats the difference between the record company and the mp3 seller in your scenario? everyone is continuing to make the larger share of the product created by someone else?
I can't imagine the artist making much more through more legitimate means, to be honest. Its not like they make £10 from a sale of an album or something. Biggest losers from services such as Allofmp3 are publishing, distribution and marketing. Whether or not an artists needs these "services" that are provided to them by the labels is a matter for a whole other debate.
Ok, lets say you are an artist.
You have the chance of picking up a recording contract and being paid £100k up front by a record company and then say 4% royalties after the first £100k has been repaid.
Or
You can have zero up front, and possibly be paid 3% sometime in the future by an unknown unregulated Russian body that you have absolutely no power over that hasn't got your name and address.
Wasn't saying it was right or wrong. Just pointing out who has the most to lose from your hypothetical breakdown of the cost of a song from allofmp3.
Take iTunes Store (and most of the other legitimate download services). No manufaturing costs, no distribution costs, infinite shelf-life for products. Given all that, and given that as a band you'd be lucky to see 1% of net sales, wouldn't you expect the cost of a song to fall dramatically? As it is, the cost of a downloaded album remains, suspiciously, the same as one bought from a traditional retailer.
Who's getting richer do you think? The artist or the label?
>> Edited by The Dude on Friday 24th February 16:16
AllofMP3 are legit in the sense that they deliver the music you want at the advertised prices, but not strictly legit in the legal sense.
I don't think you're at risk of fraud with these guys (they have thousands of happy customers), or at risk of being prosecuted for downloading music from their service.
But just understand this: not a single penny of the price you pay goes to the music publishers, and consequently, the artists. Nothing. They are legal in Russia by way of exploiting an ancient loophole which allows them to operate using the same legal status as a radio station, and distribute music as if they were broadcasting it on air without actually paying a license fee for every song they "play" (sell for download). Every penny you give them is raw profit once they cover their operating costs.
Ethically, they are completely in the wrong. You may as well download free pirated music from peer-to-peer services. AllOfMP3 would not exist in any developed nation. I bet the Russian government has a hand in deliberately allowing them to operate, with handouts underneath the table to keep everyone sweet.
I must confess to having used them before, but I am not proud of it. I trust the site and I think the catalogue and interface are both awesome, but I am aware that none of the money I pay goes to the artists.
I don't think you're at risk of fraud with these guys (they have thousands of happy customers), or at risk of being prosecuted for downloading music from their service.
But just understand this: not a single penny of the price you pay goes to the music publishers, and consequently, the artists. Nothing. They are legal in Russia by way of exploiting an ancient loophole which allows them to operate using the same legal status as a radio station, and distribute music as if they were broadcasting it on air without actually paying a license fee for every song they "play" (sell for download). Every penny you give them is raw profit once they cover their operating costs.
Ethically, they are completely in the wrong. You may as well download free pirated music from peer-to-peer services. AllOfMP3 would not exist in any developed nation. I bet the Russian government has a hand in deliberately allowing them to operate, with handouts underneath the table to keep everyone sweet.
I must confess to having used them before, but I am not proud of it. I trust the site and I think the catalogue and interface are both awesome, but I am aware that none of the money I pay goes to the artists.
Just to clarify my own position;
On another thread I said:
As long as you realise that its technically illegal to download the songs outside of Russia. The site only exits because it operates legally within Russian copyright law which differ fundamentally from, say, US and UK. The owners of the site claim they pay royalties "as required" but it seems a bit of a grey area and at those prices I can see how the artist can be getting anywhere near the royalties they would for an album sale.
Just because you pay for the songs, doesn't mean they're entirely cosher.
I've been using it for about 3 years but I only really download stuff that I'd never buy at full price, stuff I'm not sure about (like buy-before-you-buy I guess)or for albums I might already own on vinyl, for example, and want in a digital format but can't be bothered with the effort of recording it and refuse to buy it again on CD. Files from Allofmp3 only account for about 5% of my music collection (which stands at about 1200 albums to date).
The site is awesome though. How ironic that the best music download site on the internet, and I'm talking in terms of technical features, user-friendlyness as well the price, is an "illegal" one.
The Dude said:
Who's getting richer do you think? The artist or the label?
allofmp3 - by flogging material they have no claim to.
added:
i am the only one who buys things semi-ethically? i use iTunes a fair bit, but at least the music is going through the right channels and the copyright holders get something.
i refuse to buy something off of allofmp3 because the artists and the copyright holders get absolutely nothing from it. how can I claim to like a particular Coldplay track for instance, yet give absolutely nothing to its production. "I'm a Coldplay fan and I love their music - but they havent had a penny out of me those theiving (but talented) artists". Yeah, actions of a true fan.
seriously, PH is a board that made up of some pretty honest and successful people, so what if iTunes or whatever service costs 79p a track - is it really that unaffordable? is it really that bad to pay people properly for their IP that we have to seek out some dodgy russian outfit living a business dream selling copyrighted material with no adverse costs?
>> Edited by tinman0 on Friday 24th February 18:33
tinman0 said:
Who's getting richer do you think? The artist or the label?
allofmp3 - by flogging material they have no claim to.
added:
i am the only one who buys things semi-ethically? i use iTunes a fair bit, but at least the music is going through the right channels and the copyright holders get something.
i refuse to buy something off of allofmp3 because the artists and the copyright holders get absolutely nothing from it. how can I claim to like a particular Coldplay track for instance, yet give absolutely nothing to its production. "I'm a Coldplay fan and I love their music - but they havent had a penny out of me those theiving (but talented) artists". Yeah, actions of a true fan.
seriously, PH is a board that made up of some pretty honest and successful people, so what if iTunes or whatever service costs 79p a track - is it really that unaffordable? is it really that bad to pay people properly for their IP that we have to seek out some dodgy russian outfit living a business dream selling copyrighted material with no adverse costs?
>> Edited by tinman0 on Friday 24th February 18:33
Read my post above, TM. I spend a whole lot of money on music, between 10 and 30 albums a month. I get the odd song/album from Allofmp3, for the reasons I stated in the other post. No guilty conscience for me - I support the artists whose music I enjoy.
>> Edited by The Dude on Friday 24th February 18:46
You know many smaller artists, particularly those in the states, make losses from their CD sales because the record company takes so much of their overhead. The only people making money are the larger artists and the rest are expected to make their money touring.
The last album we bought was from the artists's own website from CDs he'd had pressed. All the money went directly to the artist. The music in question was by Purple Motion, who made himself a name by distributing his tracker music files on bulletin boards and as part of the demoscene, i.e. from freely traded music. This is also not the exeption, I've heard the same reported by other smaller artists.
The last album we bought was from the artists's own website from CDs he'd had pressed. All the money went directly to the artist. The music in question was by Purple Motion, who made himself a name by distributing his tracker music files on bulletin boards and as part of the demoscene, i.e. from freely traded music. This is also not the exeption, I've heard the same reported by other smaller artists.
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