Human Understanding
Discussion
There I was having a quiet moment of comtemplation when I hit upon the following quandry.
It would seem to be that various members of the animal kingdom have different intellectual capacties and understanding. My cat for example, cannot seem to understand that the piece of string is not alive, or that its me that is shining the torch on the floor. A dolphin, possibly the cleverest animal, can understand how to balance a ball on its nose etc, but cannot master polite conversation....
Therefore, is it possible that humans, the top of the animal chain, do not have the mental capacity to understand *everything*? Are there subjects that we will never be able to fathom - time travel? creation? the concept of infinity?
Is it a bit arrogant to think that we know / will eventually know everything?
It would seem to be that various members of the animal kingdom have different intellectual capacties and understanding. My cat for example, cannot seem to understand that the piece of string is not alive, or that its me that is shining the torch on the floor. A dolphin, possibly the cleverest animal, can understand how to balance a ball on its nose etc, but cannot master polite conversation....
Therefore, is it possible that humans, the top of the animal chain, do not have the mental capacity to understand *everything*? Are there subjects that we will never be able to fathom - time travel? creation? the concept of infinity?
Is it a bit arrogant to think that we know / will eventually know everything?
MrFlibbles said:
My cat for example, cannot seem to understand that the piece of string is not alive, or that its me that is shining the torch on the floor. A dolphin, possibly the cleverest animal, can understand how to balance a ball on its nose etc, but cannot master polite conversation....
are you sure that your cat could never be able to understand these things if you took the time to explain them to it? is that not what understanding is? (being able to use knowledge to evaluate situations.)
i believe that the reason that most animals cannot master polite conversation is because of the fact that we have elvolutionarily developed rather strange voiceboxes allowing us to express a large range of vocalisations where as animals have not (exceptions being parrots etc).
MrFlibbles said:
Is it a bit arrogant to think that we know / will eventually know everything?
I would have said where we differ is that humans want to understand, learn and create. Although there are some limited examples of this in nature none are anything like as developed. Its because of this that I don’t believe it to be arrogant
>> Edited by polus on Sunday 26th February 14:54
It's obvious we don't really understand dolphins (and whales, for that matter). But I am pretty sure that they converse and communicate very effectively with each other - which, for any given species, is the main purpose of communication.
I have a feeling that the whale family is extremely intelligent but that their thought processes are so alien to ours that we have very little inkling of what they really are thinking. In some ways, I think that they often condascend to come down to our level so we can have some fun. Which is very nice of them, if a little patronising.
I have a feeling that the whale family is extremely intelligent but that their thought processes are so alien to ours that we have very little inkling of what they really are thinking. In some ways, I think that they often condascend to come down to our level so we can have some fun. Which is very nice of them, if a little patronising.
polus said:
Is it a bit arrogant to think that we know / will eventually know everything?
I would have said where we differ is that humans want to understand, learn and create. Although there are some limited examples of this in nature none are anything like as developed. Its because of this that I don’t believe it to be arrogant
>> Edited by polus on Sunday 26th February 14:54
there for a different poRpoise
As individuals there is a definite limit to our understandng. As a species our ability for individuals to specialise means that our potential is much greater than the sum of the individual understanding. 100 years ago we were still figuring out how to fly, now we can put men into space but no one areospace engineer understood all of the space shuttles systems.
We have only scratched the surface of our potential which - despite the ramblings of the sandle wearers - is one of our greatest attributes.
We have only scratched the surface of our potential which - despite the ramblings of the sandle wearers - is one of our greatest attributes.
MilnerR said:
As individuals there is a definite limit to our understandng. As a species our ability for individuals to specialise means that our potential is much greater than the sum of the individual understanding. 100 years ago we were still figuring out how to fly, now we can put men into space but no one areospace engineer understood all of the space shuttles systems.
We have only scratched the surface of our potential which - despite the ramblings of the sandle wearers - is one of our greatest attributes.
Yeah, good point.
rich 36 said:
there for a different poRpoise
>> Edited by polus on Sunday 26th February 15:11
ErnestM said:
I always thought that dolphins were great conversationalists:
ErnestM
Douglas Adams said:
It is an important and popular fact that things are not always what they seem. For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much — the wheel, New York, wars and so on — whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man — for precisely the same reasons.
Curiously enough, the dolphins had long known of the impending destruction of the planet Earth and had made many attempts to alert mankind of the danger; but most of their communications were misinterpreted as amusing attempts to punch footballs or whistle for tidbits, so they eventually gave up and left the Earth by their own means shortly before the Vogons arrived.
The last ever dolphin message was misinterpreted as a surprisingly sophisticated attempt to do a double-backwards-somersault through a hoop whilst whistling the "Star Sprangled Banner", but in fact the message was this: So long and thanks for all the fish.
In fact there was only one species on the planet more intelligent than dolphins, and they spent a lot of their time in behavioural research laboratories running round inside wheels and conducting frighteningly elegant and subtle experiments on man. The fact that once again man completely misinterpreted this relationship was entirely according to these creatures' plans.
I was thinking about this very same topic yesterday as it happens Russ. I think with learning/teaching/progress we can transcend the boudaries of what is commonly thought of as understandable. i.e. Quantum mechanics are thought to be way past the understanding of your average. But some people understand these concepts like you and me would understand why an apple falls from a tree. I think it very possible that with sufficient effort I could become an accomplished astro physicist. I am a man that follows my passions however, and all that math doesn't really interest me.
Plenty of scope for us to augment human intelligence however. Vis-a-vis transhumanism.
Plenty of scope for us to augment human intelligence however. Vis-a-vis transhumanism.
Cats play around, it helps their hunting skills, humans play computer games they can get pretty serious about it as well, your cat will not always be in the mood for playing games either, especially when they are older they just look at the string with a half open eye, raise the head, then think boolox to that and go back to sleep.
You're also fooling yourself to a degree whenever you have a wank, watch a movie or read a book, all require imagination to fill in the gaps to reality, but do animals have imaginations
You're also fooling yourself to a degree whenever you have a wank, watch a movie or read a book, all require imagination to fill in the gaps to reality, but do animals have imaginations
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff