Space Shuttle replacement
Discussion
Anyone else disappointed with this?
We had the huge multi-stage rockets of the Apollo era which gave way to the Space Shuttle which lets face it, is a awesome looking vehicle. I know they started building the first one nearly 33 years ago and it has a long list of shortcomings but its easy for a layperson to see the advancement between this and what was before.
Then we had all the speculation about a new craft that had single stage to orbit technology and there were those pictures of that Thunderbird 2 looking craft the X-33/VentureStar which eventually got canceled after spending a fortune!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-33
Now we're getting the Ares rockets, which looks more like pimped Saturn V, this time with 5 stages instead of 3. And if we're going to the Moon or Mars you can fit Orion on the top just as was done with Apollo, complete with a splashdown in the sea at the end of the mission, very little seems to be reusable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_I
Yes I know it's more powerful, yes I know it can lift more, yes I know it's better than what we've had before but you have to admit it's not as cool as we'd have hoped for.
I've got my Airfix Saturn V, my Airfix Columbia but I can't see me getting the Ares.
Just seems that there hasn't been any fundamental breakthroughs with getting into space since Mercury.
I wonder when they'll come.
We had the huge multi-stage rockets of the Apollo era which gave way to the Space Shuttle which lets face it, is a awesome looking vehicle. I know they started building the first one nearly 33 years ago and it has a long list of shortcomings but its easy for a layperson to see the advancement between this and what was before.
Then we had all the speculation about a new craft that had single stage to orbit technology and there were those pictures of that Thunderbird 2 looking craft the X-33/VentureStar which eventually got canceled after spending a fortune!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-33
Now we're getting the Ares rockets, which looks more like pimped Saturn V, this time with 5 stages instead of 3. And if we're going to the Moon or Mars you can fit Orion on the top just as was done with Apollo, complete with a splashdown in the sea at the end of the mission, very little seems to be reusable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_I
Yes I know it's more powerful, yes I know it can lift more, yes I know it's better than what we've had before but you have to admit it's not as cool as we'd have hoped for.
I've got my Airfix Saturn V, my Airfix Columbia but I can't see me getting the Ares.
Just seems that there hasn't been any fundamental breakthroughs with getting into space since Mercury.
I wonder when they'll come.
Sorry to revive an old thread but I thouight some PHers might be interested to know that President Obama has pledged to support NASA's ongoing plans to replace the Shuttle by 2010 and has actually incresed NASA's budget by just under $2 billion per annum.
I was concerned that NASA might face big cutbacks under the Obama regime but it seems he is concerned that the US doesn't lose its pre-eminent role in spceflight and space exploration.
I was concerned that NASA might face big cutbacks under the Obama regime but it seems he is concerned that the US doesn't lose its pre-eminent role in spceflight and space exploration.
Eric Mc said:
The Shuttle has been a major millstone around NASA's neck. Going back to disposable rockets is actually the best way forward.
Yes, this was something I could never understand with the Saturn series of rockets, ok, Saturn V was the daddy of the heavy lifters but I never understood why it was the dead end it was; especially with the X20-DynaSoar project looking like the right approach.Especially with rumours of BlackStar and also the near completed X-33, it seems that these approaches would have been much cheaper. BlackStar looks very similar approach to SpaceShipOne.
The Ares/Orion concept is very sound though, put the astroanuts up, then send up the craft.
Still not a patch to throwing the whole lot on a Saturn V though for sheer balls-out 'look at us' though.
Personally, my favourite way would be to put them up is an SSTO 'spaceplane' and then boost them in a detachable 'transport' (aka Soyuz) to space station where their chariot was being fuelled.... but I've watched too much science fiction.
Edited by 215cu on Friday 27th February 08:59
I watched "In the Shadow of the Moon" the other night, regardless of how ace the shuttle looks, the utter brute force and sheer willpower that flung the Apollo crews into the void brought me to a tear, I wish we had that sense of "can do" and real heroes today.
Saturn V is still the Daddy though!
.jpg/800px-Saturn-V_Shuttle_Ares-I_Ares-V_comparison_(06-2006).jpg)
Saturn V is still the Daddy though!
Reposted link but what the heck.
http://www.staynehoff.net/saturn_v_stuff.htm
Vids at the bottom are impressive.
http://www.staynehoff.net/saturn_v_stuff.htm
Vids at the bottom are impressive.
There are two major obstacles to space exploration. 1:Gravity 2:Atmosphere
By the time you have designed a rocket that can escape Earth's gravity and fling itself through 60 miles of atmosphere there's no fuel left to do much else. NASA havent been out of low earth orbit since Apollo in the mid seventy's, in fact no one has. The launch of Hubble stretched the space shuttle to its very limits. Today if you wanted to go to the moon on a budget the you look at how you have already been there and come up with something along the same lines. That is exactly what NASA have done.
If NASA want to go further then they are going to have to come up with something new. But the big breakthrough wont come until we can build a craft in space that doesn't have to be hauled through the atmosphere. I don't see that happening in the next 100 years.
By the time you have designed a rocket that can escape Earth's gravity and fling itself through 60 miles of atmosphere there's no fuel left to do much else. NASA havent been out of low earth orbit since Apollo in the mid seventy's, in fact no one has. The launch of Hubble stretched the space shuttle to its very limits. Today if you wanted to go to the moon on a budget the you look at how you have already been there and come up with something along the same lines. That is exactly what NASA have done.
If NASA want to go further then they are going to have to come up with something new. But the big breakthrough wont come until we can build a craft in space that doesn't have to be hauled through the atmosphere. I don't see that happening in the next 100 years.
Edited by jonnyb on Friday 27th February 09:36
jmorgan said:
Reposted link but what the heck.
http://www.staynehoff.net/saturn_v_stuff.htm
Vids at the bottom are impressive.
Great Link.http://www.staynehoff.net/saturn_v_stuff.htm
Vids at the bottom are impressive.
One of the greatest memories of my life was standing in the main exhibition hall of the Kennedy Space Center and seeing one of these bad boys up close and personal. Nothing can prepare you for the sheer size of the thing. It is an absolute behemoth of metal. Each of the F-1 engine is enormous and there are five in total.
The Apollo tour is brilliant, the bit where is it goes, "The largest man-made object every assembled with the most moving parts of any object ever assembled built with the tolerances of a Swiss watch."
And then you realise that a) it was a mind-boggling engineering challenge using many technologies for the very first time b) they had the vision, ability and conjones the size of planets to attempt it c) they found people willing to sit on top of it, people that define the very word 'heroic' d) they achieved their objective.
Even Saturn V's escape rocket is more powerful than the Redstone that put Freedom 7 into orbit.
It is a beast.
I've done the tour twice and each time when they playback the moment it landed, when you see the look on people's faces from all round the world of joy and wonder at the moment they walked on the moon, it raises the hairs on the back of your neck and just once, the entire world was united.
Very powerful stuff and certainly man's most noble endeavour.
Then they play the bit where today's kids talk about it and you see they are fired up and inspired by it; gets me every time.
jonnyb said:
If NASA want to go further then they are going to have to come up with something new. But the big breakthrough wont come until we can build a craft in space that doesn't have to be hauled through the atmosphere. I don't see that happening in the next 100 years.
What's stopping the implementation of the space elevator concept to get stuff upto a staging post in orbit for minimal energy expenditure ? My understanding is that we can't yet build a material with sufficient compressive strength for the tether, but not sure it's that's eitehr (a) correct or (b) still the case.Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff