McBurger King to offer GCSEs

[T5SOR]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/ed...


Oh dear I have a degree in making what looks like a burger.....

Edited by T5SOR on Monday 28th January 07:08

[siscar]

The amazing thing is that we have a government so far out of touch that they couldn't spot the stupidity of this early on and squash it.

[Kermit power]

Reading the article, I think it looks like an absolutely excellent idea. It is just a shame that by allowing Macdonalds to get involved as one of the first companies on the list, the government has probably killed a superb initiative before it even gets up and running.

Nobody will read that and come away with the overall message that people will be able to gain vocational qualifications ranging up to PhD level from the likes of Network Rail. They will come away with the message that people can get a Mc A level in selling mass produced shite to chavs.

If the three companies mentioned had been, let's say, an airline, an engineering company and an IT company, I reckon the whole initiative would be coming in for praise.

[billymatt55]

I like how the government's decided to introduce A-levels where you have to fail a certain amount of GCSEs to study, rather than that old fashioned passing system they've been following for years

[arfur]

On the BBC website it says that "McDonalds to offer A-Levels"

Interesting extra ... wonder how much they charge for that

[Meeja]

GreasySE's.....

[groomi]

Well it fits into the natural order of society.

You buy expensive peerages from the government or you can buy cheap A-levels from McDonalds...

[siscar]

Well speaking as an employer of about 50 people my issue with recruitment is that people already have a bunch of qualifications that don't mean anything to us. In other words we can't assess what level of skill they have from a CV because we don't know what their qualifications really mean. Gaining the option of seeing people coming through with qualifications their company has awarded them just makes it harder, the instinct will be to dismiss those as more junk as well.

[Hedders]

Meeja said:

GreasySE's.....

Nice!!! I think you have coined a phrase

[Kermit power]

siscar said:

The amazing thing is that we have a government so far out of touch that they couldn't spot the stupidity of this early on and squash it.

What is the stupidity of it?

Go back a few generations, and this country had a system of intellectual study for intellectual children and apprenticeships for the less intellectual. They gained on the job experience whilst being paid a modest wage, gained skills, contributed to society, gained a work ethic.

Fast forward to the present day, and we have a government which for a decade has had the laughable notion that everyone could and should receive an intellectual education whether they will benefit from it or not. This then leads to large chunks of society getting little or no qualifications of any sort, and then deciding that they're better off making a career out of benefit scrounging than actually getting a job.

This country needs to recognise that all people are not created equal. All people are not going to get the same number of GCSEs, A levels and degrees, and that by maintaining the charade that they are, we're damaging the prospects of kids both at the upper and lower ends of the scale.

If I were education secretary, I would bring back grammar schools and secondary moderns, then keep the grammar schools for the academic elite to study, whilst bringing in the private sector to help run the secondary moderns. The companies invest in equipment and training, and in return get a cheap source of labour and school leavers more appropriately skilled for their needs as employers. I'm not proposing a return to 6 year old kids picking up wool from under the looms, but if kids of 13-16 could learn skills such as car mechanics, landscape gardening or cookery whilst on day release programme, contributing to their employers whilst earning a modest sum in the process, how would that be letting anyone down?

[billymatt55]

siscar said:

Well speaking as an employer of about 50 people my issue with recruitment is that people already have a bunch of qualifications that don't mean anything to us. In other words we can't assess what level of skill they have from a CV because we don't know what their qualifications really mean. Gaining the option of seeing people coming through with qualifications their company has awarded them just makes it harder, the instinct will be to dismiss those as more junk as well.

True, although given the choice between someone with a qualifications in subjects such as English and Biology compared to one with a qualification in working in a business somewhat similar to one s/he's being interviewed at, I'd be more likely to go for the one who already knows to an extent what they're doing

[billb]

get over the fact its mcdonalds and yes would you ever let your kid choose it and i bet its actually a very useful management alevel and far more relevant to the real world than 90% of the others

[siscar]

Kermit power said:

siscar said:

The amazing thing is that we have a government so far out of touch that they couldn't spot the stupidity of this early on and squash it.

What is the stupidity of it?

Go back a few generations, and this country had a system of intellectual study for intellectual children and apprenticeships for the less intellectual. They gained on the job experience whilst being paid a modest wage, gained skills, contributed to society, gained a work ethic.

Fast forward to the present day, and we have a government which for a decade has had the laughable notion that everyone could and should receive an intellectual education whether they will benefit from it or not. This then leads to large chunks of society getting little or no qualifications of any sort, and then deciding that they're better off making a career out of benefit scrounging than actually getting a job.

This country needs to recognise that all people are not created equal. All people are not going to get the same number of GCSEs, A levels and degrees, and that by maintaining the charade that they are, we're damaging the prospects of kids both at the upper and lower ends of the scale.

If I were education secretary, I would bring back grammar schools and secondary moderns, then keep the grammar schools for the academic elite to study, whilst bringing in the private sector to help run the secondary moderns. The companies invest in equipment and training, and in return get a cheap source of labour and school leavers more appropriately skilled for their needs as employers. I'm not proposing a return to 6 year old kids picking up wool from under the looms, but if kids of 13-16 could learn skills such as car mechanics, landscape gardening or cookery whilst on day release programme, contributing to their employers whilst earning a modest sum in the process, how would that be letting anyone down?

I agree with everything you say but don't see that this scheme helps. Maybe we are just seeing it from different angles, I'm faced with people applying for jobs that have a host of qualifications few of which are meaningful to me. What we need is a system where qualifications can be academic of vocational and where they can be understood both in terms of the subject and the level.

[Kermit power]

siscar said:

Well speaking as an employer of about 50 people my issue with recruitment is that people already have a bunch of qualifications that don't mean anything to us. In other words we can't assess what level of skill they have from a CV because we don't know what their qualifications really mean. Gaining the option of seeing people coming through with qualifications their company has awarded them just makes it harder, the instinct will be to dismiss those as more junk as well.

Totally understandable, but the answer to that surely is to ensure that the qualifications are clear and transparent, rather than just not bothering in the first place.

If you run a garage, what would be better for you? A sixteen year old who has scraped a couple of GCSEs in English and Geography, or a 16 year old who has some sort of recognisable foundation qualification in car mechanics issued by a respected employer?

[billymatt55]

Kermit power said:

If I were education secretary, I would bring back grammar schools

Grammar schools never went away! I was a not-so-humble student at one until 2 years ago, they're very much alive. Although, judging by some of the people I met during my time there, Grammar schools don't just cater for the academic elite anymore

[smilerbaker]

Kermit power said:

siscar said:

Well speaking as an employer of about 50 people my issue with recruitment is that people already have a bunch of qualifications that don't mean anything to us. In other words we can't assess what level of skill they have from a CV because we don't know what their qualifications really mean. Gaining the option of seeing people coming through with qualifications their company has awarded them just makes it harder, the instinct will be to dismiss those as more junk as well.

Totally understandable, but the answer to that surely is to ensure that the qualifications are clear and transparent, rather than just not bothering in the first place.

If you run a garage, what would be better for you? A sixteen year old who has scraped a couple of GCSEs in English and Geography, or a 16 year old who has some sort of recognisable foundation qualification in car mechanics issued by a respected employer?

The real problem is all qualifications have been watered down so much that none of them mean much now.

Johnny 5 stars, who has trouble breathing for himself, will soon be able to say he has a couple of A levels, that devalues the 'proper' A levels gained at school / college.

[billymatt55]

smilerbaker said:

Johnny 5 stars

Classic!

[Kermit power]

smilerbaker said:

Kermit power said:

siscar said:

Well speaking as an employer of about 50 people my issue with recruitment is that people already have a bunch of qualifications that don't mean anything to us. In other words we can't assess what level of skill they have from a CV because we don't know what their qualifications really mean. Gaining the option of seeing people coming through with qualifications their company has awarded them just makes it harder, the instinct will be to dismiss those as more junk as well.

Totally understandable, but the answer to that surely is to ensure that the qualifications are clear and transparent, rather than just not bothering in the first place.

If you run a garage, what would be better for you? A sixteen year old who has scraped a couple of GCSEs in English and Geography, or a 16 year old who has some sort of recognisable foundation qualification in car mechanics issued by a respected employer?

The real problem is all qualifications have been watered down so much that none of them mean much now.

Johnny 5 stars, who has trouble breathing for himself, will soon be able to say he has a couple of A levels, that devalues the 'proper' A levels gained at school / college.

I agree. I certainly don't think they should be called A levels. However, allowing for vocational qualifications in a nationally recognised framework to A levels, degree level and even beyond is a good idea in my view. The most important thing though is to make sure that the framework is nationally recognised and understandable.

[smilerbaker]

Kermit power said:

smilerbaker said:

Kermit power said:

siscar said:

Well speaking as an employer of about 50 people my issue with recruitment is that people already have a bunch of qualifications that don't mean anything to us. In other words we can't assess what level of skill they have from a CV because we don't know what their qualifications really mean. Gaining the option of seeing people coming through with qualifications their company has awarded them just makes it harder, the instinct will be to dismiss those as more junk as well.

Totally understandable, but the answer to that surely is to ensure that the qualifications are clear and transparent, rather than just not bothering in the first place.

If you run a garage, what would be better for you? A sixteen year old who has scraped a couple of GCSEs in English and Geography, or a 16 year old who has some sort of recognisable foundation qualification in car mechanics issued by a respected employer?

The real problem is all qualifications have been watered down so much that none of them mean much now.

Johnny 5 stars, who has trouble breathing for himself, will soon be able to say he has a couple of A levels, that devalues the 'proper' A levels gained at school / college.

I agree. I certainly don't think they should be called A levels. However, allowing for vocational qualifications in a nationally recognised framework to A levels, degree level and even beyond is a good idea in my view. The most important thing though is to make sure that the framework is nationally recognised and understandable.

Isn't that what NVQ's, ONC's and HNC's are for? (at least in my youth)

[Otto]

When I saw this on the news this morning, a thought crossed my mind. I would really really like to work for McDonalds, very high up in the company, just so I could enjoy the following conversation:
"so, what do you do?"
"I work for McDonalds"
"Hahaha, oh dear!"
"Yes, I'm Vice President of McDonalds UK. Want to see my mansion and fleet of classic sports cars?"
Of course, the hamburglar van would have to be in the fleet...