It's time to remove the PH stickers
Discussion
I don't like stickers on my cars, never have really. My other half has tried to sneak Ace Cafe or Goodwood stickers on there, but I take them off fairly quickly. However, I've displayed my PH stickers with pride, until now that is. First thing in the morning they are coming off the car. Let me explain why.
I'm embarrassed to be here. I'm a true petrolhead, I spend most weekends attending some sort of car event, am a member of a car club and will happily get under the bonnet to work on my car. However, everyone I speak to about PH gives the same reaction at the moment, it's full of vicious keyboard warriors who would sooner attack you for your point of view than have a discussion. People come on here, take a look and run a mile at the playground antics. They look at me as though I'm mad for being a member.
I agree with where they are coming from. I find a lot of the language on here downright rude and offensive. One recent thread in particular about the Miss England contestant from Surrey is a prime example. I hope nobody ever talks about your wife, sister, daughter in such an awful way and I can imagine the reaction if you heard them, so why do it here? It's a playground competition to see who can use the most abusive and antagonistic language or get the highest post count with pointless comments. It's not specifically trolls I'm talking about here (they are often fairly funny), but it is a lot of the regulars which seems to encourage new members to try and go one better.
I can hear some of the reactions already:
- f
k off if you don't like it here.
- You're a lesbian bh AICMFP.
- Don't read the post if you don't like it.
- Who gives a st.
- Tosser.
If you're thinking about posting any of those as replies, then you're probably the sort of person that I'm talking about.
There are some great areas of PH and lots of good people on here. I've had plenty of good advice from the Porsche forum and the SP&L forum which saved me a lot of money. So it's not all bad. I'm a member of other forums (not just cars) and there is a totally different feel of good natured chat and support for other people. Maybe it's the size of the membership on here that encourages people to compete, safe in the knowledge that they will never meet the other person.
So I will continue to read and post on PH, but I won't publicise or advertise PH anymore.
Does anyone else hear similar things about PH out there? I think that there are a number of regulars who don't post as frequently as they once did (or maybe they've gone out and got a life
). Does anyone care?
I'm embarrassed to be here. I'm a true petrolhead, I spend most weekends attending some sort of car event, am a member of a car club and will happily get under the bonnet to work on my car. However, everyone I speak to about PH gives the same reaction at the moment, it's full of vicious keyboard warriors who would sooner attack you for your point of view than have a discussion. People come on here, take a look and run a mile at the playground antics. They look at me as though I'm mad for being a member.
I agree with where they are coming from. I find a lot of the language on here downright rude and offensive. One recent thread in particular about the Miss England contestant from Surrey is a prime example. I hope nobody ever talks about your wife, sister, daughter in such an awful way and I can imagine the reaction if you heard them, so why do it here? It's a playground competition to see who can use the most abusive and antagonistic language or get the highest post count with pointless comments. It's not specifically trolls I'm talking about here (they are often fairly funny), but it is a lot of the regulars which seems to encourage new members to try and go one better.
I can hear some of the reactions already:
- f
k off if you don't like it here.- You're a lesbian b
h AICMFP.- Don't read the post if you don't like it.
- Who gives a s
t.- Tosser.
If you're thinking about posting any of those as replies, then you're probably the sort of person that I'm talking about.
There are some great areas of PH and lots of good people on here. I've had plenty of good advice from the Porsche forum and the SP&L forum which saved me a lot of money. So it's not all bad. I'm a member of other forums (not just cars) and there is a totally different feel of good natured chat and support for other people. Maybe it's the size of the membership on here that encourages people to compete, safe in the knowledge that they will never meet the other person.
So I will continue to read and post on PH, but I won't publicise or advertise PH anymore.
Does anyone else hear similar things about PH out there? I think that there are a number of regulars who don't post as frequently as they once did (or maybe they've gone out and got a life
). Does anyone care?I feel quite sad that you feel that way RaeB. But as others have said as well as yourself, I've noticed the amount of keyboard warriors and trolling increase.
Sometimes I don't post for a few days and like to check the threads, when I check the longer ones, you just know that the first few pages will be fairly light hearted or serious, but when you click the final page that it usually has degenerated into some sort of slanging match.
I like it here, and I've met a lot of really great people, in fact, after 18 months of being here I'm going on my first PH 'hoon' when I go home next week, I can't wait!
I think one of the main problems is that PH is really a victim of it's own success. This was originally a TVR website, that has grown and blossomed, and now Haymarket has taken control, they want to spread the word and get more people in, a lot of which will be your 'troll' and 'chav' types who either want to cause trouble, and also don't really fit in with the PH demographic.
As for the thread of which you speak of, I followed it from the beginning and I did think it was out of order. The poor lass seemed willing to have a laugh and seemed intelligent and articulate from her posts. I hope this isn't the future direction for PH.
Sometimes I don't post for a few days and like to check the threads, when I check the longer ones, you just know that the first few pages will be fairly light hearted or serious, but when you click the final page that it usually has degenerated into some sort of slanging match.
I like it here, and I've met a lot of really great people, in fact, after 18 months of being here I'm going on my first PH 'hoon' when I go home next week, I can't wait!
I think one of the main problems is that PH is really a victim of it's own success. This was originally a TVR website, that has grown and blossomed, and now Haymarket has taken control, they want to spread the word and get more people in, a lot of which will be your 'troll' and 'chav' types who either want to cause trouble, and also don't really fit in with the PH demographic.
As for the thread of which you speak of, I followed it from the beginning and I did think it was out of order. The poor lass seemed willing to have a laugh and seemed intelligent and articulate from her posts. I hope this isn't the future direction for PH.
Hmm, i can't really see where you're coming from, the old PH is still here, it's just below the veneer of trolls.
They've always been here, be it dokic, scubadave, rafdug, etc. It comes in waves, they typically follow the same cycle, outrage at something, mass exodus, trolls move in, people who left in mass exodus come back, other people get outraged at something, rinse and repeat.
There's still a lot of banter, but i do agree at the moment there's quite a lot of angry people, but i just ignore it and move on.
Will i remove the PH stickers from my cars?
No,
Will i stop visiting?
No, i'll just wait for the trolls to get bored and go away.
They've always been here, be it dokic, scubadave, rafdug, etc. It comes in waves, they typically follow the same cycle, outrage at something, mass exodus, trolls move in, people who left in mass exodus come back, other people get outraged at something, rinse and repeat.
There's still a lot of banter, but i do agree at the moment there's quite a lot of angry people, but i just ignore it and move on.
Will i remove the PH stickers from my cars?
No,
Will i stop visiting?
No, i'll just wait for the trolls to get bored and go away.
After reading through that I agree. Was pretty shameful. Especially the last 2 pages.
I've had some arguements on here, which get a bit heated. But they are over topics which are much more general in nature, and I like to think I don't stoop to that level. Maybe I take the personal attacks a little too far once they have started, but if I ever act like some of the people in that thread just ban me.
Pretty pathetic really. And tbh, I think that the AE using Paul Mycock is probably someone who has been here a while. No proof, but just how they operated.
I've had some arguements on here, which get a bit heated. But they are over topics which are much more general in nature, and I like to think I don't stoop to that level. Maybe I take the personal attacks a little too far once they have started, but if I ever act like some of the people in that thread just ban me.
Pretty pathetic really. And tbh, I think that the AE using Paul Mycock is probably someone who has been here a while. No proof, but just how they operated.
Powerful OP there RaeB.
You are right in posting that there are a number of posters here that make me cringe. Some are clearly trolls...and then some aren't.
I will have my PH stickers emblazoned with pride when I run off to Le Mans next month, but the irony is that some of the current problems with the 24 hours is not in anyway different to some of the more offensive postings on here.
Solutions? Well, the only thing that I could come up with is more Mods and blocking members through their IP addresses (if that is in anyway technological possible).
Whether posting authorities could be removed from offenders (I know that BlatChat did this by restricting posting to members of the L7 club - harsh, but at least accountable)
The only other way would be to have a Pie & Piston with a lounge and a bar (and perhaps a beer garden) so that one area could be used as a sin bin
You are right in posting that there are a number of posters here that make me cringe. Some are clearly trolls...and then some aren't.
I will have my PH stickers emblazoned with pride when I run off to Le Mans next month, but the irony is that some of the current problems with the 24 hours is not in anyway different to some of the more offensive postings on here.
Solutions? Well, the only thing that I could come up with is more Mods and blocking members through their IP addresses (if that is in anyway technological possible).
Whether posting authorities could be removed from offenders (I know that BlatChat did this by restricting posting to members of the L7 club - harsh, but at least accountable)
The only other way would be to have a Pie & Piston with a lounge and a bar (and perhaps a beer garden) so that one area could be used as a sin bin
Thats a shame, I had noticed an improvement of late, however it is a sign of the times in general, it is changing form, not enough for me to remove stickers though, far from it, I am proud to be a part of PH.
I certainly do not read PH to the extent I used to, I am more of a 'getting out to meets' person, it is there I see the genuine petrolheads, who I am proud to call many very good friends.
I certainly do not read PH to the extent I used to, I am more of a 'getting out to meets' person, it is there I see the genuine petrolheads, who I am proud to call many very good friends.
RaeB des have a very valid point. All forums attract their own trolls, and PH being more sucessful than most its going to attract more.
However there are a few regulars who can be particularly obnoxious, rude and any other such adjective one might want to use. Some just don't appear to think, or alternatively do think, but are their social skills are insufficiently developed so they don't realise how rude they are.
Having said that I am not sure its actually got worse, or whether the increase in the size of PH has just given them more opportunities to show their insecurities, as many of them have been around for year, posting similar offensive comments but not as often.
However there are a few regulars who can be particularly obnoxious, rude and any other such adjective one might want to use. Some just don't appear to think, or alternatively do think, but are their social skills are insufficiently developed so they don't realise how rude they are.
Having said that I am not sure its actually got worse, or whether the increase in the size of PH has just given them more opportunities to show their insecurities, as many of them have been around for year, posting similar offensive comments but not as often.
Chrisgr31 said:
RaeB des have a very valid point. All forums attract their own trolls, and PH being more sucessful than most its going to attract more.
However there are a few regulars who can be particularly obnoxious, rude and any other such adjective one might want to use. Some just don't appear to think, or alternatively do think, but are their social skills are insufficiently developed so they don't realise how rude they are.
Having said that I am not sure its actually got worse, or whether the increase in the size of PH has just given them more opportunities to show their insecurities, as many of them have been around for year, posting similar offensive comments but not as often.
I'd have to agree with you there, most of the blame gets put at the door of the site expanding and attracting the 'chav' and 'max power' element, but some of the rudest and most obnoxious posters are from the longer term members, and some even profess to be professionals on their profile. It makes me wonder how on earth they get on in real life with some of the crap they post on here.However there are a few regulars who can be particularly obnoxious, rude and any other such adjective one might want to use. Some just don't appear to think, or alternatively do think, but are their social skills are insufficiently developed so they don't realise how rude they are.
Having said that I am not sure its actually got worse, or whether the increase in the size of PH has just given them more opportunities to show their insecurities, as many of them have been around for year, posting similar offensive comments but not as often.
eccles said:
I'd have to agree with you there, most of the blame gets put at the door of the site expanding and attracting the 'chav' and 'max power' element, but some of the rudest and most obnoxious posters are from the longer term members, and some even profess to be professionals on their profile. It makes me wonder how on earth they get on in real life with some of the crap they post on here.
That is something I had noticed as well. And the thing is, you see long term members posting like that, and newer members think it is perfectly ok to do so as well.
Every so often someone posts up the "PH has gone to the dogs. I'm taking my ball away." post.
It doesn't help or change anything. It's like shouting at the tide. Is it attention seeking? Dunno.
Rather than rail at fate and perform ritual sticker removal...
If you have had enough of the P&P (easily done) just remove it from your favourites list. Every so often I get bored of the dross and I just remove it for a while. I advise you to do the same. Read the specific fora that apply to you. After all - they're populated with the people who want to talk about a subject near and dear to one's heart - like TVRs, Porsches, Photography, Grub or whatever it is that attracted you to PH in the first place.
The P&P is Facebook/Bebo/etc OhMyGodLolzPwnedLuvyaj4eva
Frankly the name calling, and bhing is all part of the entertainment. When it gets boring? Switch it off. I don't stay in the same room as crap TV - I switch over or do something else. Luckily PH provides the same facility. 
I'm not actually trying to be mean, BTW. It's just that there is a practical measure you can take to limit your exposure to the nonsense in the P&P and it doesn't involve taking your ball away.
It doesn't help or change anything. It's like shouting at the tide. Is it attention seeking? Dunno.
Rather than rail at fate and perform ritual sticker removal...
If you have had enough of the P&P (easily done) just remove it from your favourites list. Every so often I get bored of the dross and I just remove it for a while. I advise you to do the same. Read the specific fora that apply to you. After all - they're populated with the people who want to talk about a subject near and dear to one's heart - like TVRs, Porsches, Photography, Grub or whatever it is that attracted you to PH in the first place.
The P&P is Facebook/Bebo/etc OhMyGodLolzPwnedLuvyaj4eva
Frankly the name calling, and b
hing is all part of the entertainment. When it gets boring? Switch it off. I don't stay in the same room as crap TV - I switch over or do something else. Luckily PH provides the same facility. I'm not actually trying to be mean, BTW. It's just that there is a practical measure you can take to limit your exposure to the nonsense in the P&P and it doesn't involve taking your ball away.
eccles said:
Chrisgr31 said:
RaeB des have a very valid point. All forums attract their own trolls, and PH being more sucessful than most its going to attract more.
However there are a few regulars who can be particularly obnoxious, rude and any other such adjective one might want to use. Some just don't appear to think, or alternatively do think, but are their social skills are insufficiently developed so they don't realise how rude they are.
Having said that I am not sure its actually got worse, or whether the increase in the size of PH has just given them more opportunities to show their insecurities, as many of them have been around for year, posting similar offensive comments but not as often.
I'd have to agree with you there, most of the blame gets put at the door of the site expanding and attracting the 'chav' and 'max power' element, but some of the rudest and most obnoxious posters are from the longer term members, and some even profess to be professionals on their profile. It makes me wonder how on earth they get on in real life with some of the crap they post on here.However there are a few regulars who can be particularly obnoxious, rude and any other such adjective one might want to use. Some just don't appear to think, or alternatively do think, but are their social skills are insufficiently developed so they don't realise how rude they are.
Having said that I am not sure its actually got worse, or whether the increase in the size of PH has just given them more opportunities to show their insecurities, as many of them have been around for year, posting similar offensive comments but not as often.
Rae:
Allow me a moment of arrogance and let me state this: your problem is not with PH, it is with the P&P.
However, I don't give much credence to the "woe is us for we are invaded by trolls" hypothesis. Take the Miss Surrey thread - which was not one of PH's finer moments, I agree. The OP of that thread has been a member for over seven years, and by far the majority of the posters on it are long-term PH members.
I posit that the P&P has always been like this. Certainly in my memory it has; people were being binned for protracted OXO threads when I joined nearly three years ago, and there were - as mentioned in this thread - the Dokic and Raf Dug episodes - and many others like it.
Time to take the P&P off your favourites, I think.
Allow me a moment of arrogance and let me state this: your problem is not with PH, it is with the P&P.
However, I don't give much credence to the "woe is us for we are invaded by trolls" hypothesis. Take the Miss Surrey thread - which was not one of PH's finer moments, I agree. The OP of that thread has been a member for over seven years, and by far the majority of the posters on it are long-term PH members.
I posit that the P&P has always been like this. Certainly in my memory it has; people were being binned for protracted OXO threads when I joined nearly three years ago, and there were - as mentioned in this thread - the Dokic and Raf Dug episodes - and many others like it.
Time to take the P&P off your favourites, I think.
ETA: Ah, tits. I just read the OP and responded. Reading the thread would have led me to Don's post, which says more-or-less the same thing as mine.
Edited by CommanderJameson on Monday 5th May 08:11
I would have to agree with the above post. I've not been here long so don't know if it's changed, but I certainly don't think any problems are down to an influx of chavs.
You only have to read one of the multiple anti-chav posts to realise that there is genuine hatred of them on here.
Some of the most odious posts come from the longest establshed members.
You only have to read one of the multiple anti-chav posts to realise that there is genuine hatred of them on here.
Some of the most odious posts come from the longest establshed members.
Baby Huey said:
Some of the most odious posts come from the longest establshed members.
You really are going to have to support that with a few links.Some of the longer standing members are also more likely to tell it how they see it and be unafraid of expressing and standing by their opinion. Others may find the standpoint not to their liking - the problem is not always with the poster...
The mods have rules for what is allowed and what is not. Personal abuse for example is unacceptable beyond a certain level...I try to avoid it myself. I love a good debate and appreciate a fine sparring partner but I feel no personal animosity to anyone on here if they disagree with me. They're wrong that's all!
Generally the mods (I am not one) are fairly effective at removing stuff that is beyond the pale. However - fair comment is allowed. That fair comment you may disagree with utterly and even find repellant, odious or otherwise unacceptable but if it is still fair comment it is usually allowed to remain so long as it doesn't endanger PH as a site.PH has a lot of widely varying opinion on a host of matters. One must accept that. TVR vs Porsche. Canon vs Nikon. Beauty Queen vs Troll. Difference of opinion makes for lively debate and is part of the fun.
Like I say - if you tire of the P&P and it's ribald humour and strong opinions - switch it off and enjoy a different aspect of PH for a while. I have to from time to time.
Colonial said:
eccles said:
I'd have to agree with you there, most of the blame gets put at the door of the site expanding and attracting the 'chav' and 'max power' element, but some of the rudest and most obnoxious posters are from the longer term members, and some even profess to be professionals on their profile. It makes me wonder how on earth they get on in real life with some of the crap they post on here.
That is something I had noticed as well. And the thing is, you see long term members posting like that, and newer members think it is perfectly ok to do so as well.
People join forums where they think they will fit in. If people see "regulars" getting away with offensive or rude posts, or just posting endless inane drivel, then that is the demographic the forum will attract. And so it goes on, in an endless self-perpetuating circle (or rather a downward spiral) of utter, utter banality.
There are some very knowledgeable people on here, whether it be about car maintenance, driving in general, motoring law, photography, a whole range of topics. Unfortunately, for every one of those, there are a dozen self-opinionated keyboard-bashers who, unrestrained by a total lack of knowledge or experience of the point under discussion, wade in either to bash the sensible advice, or to give advice of their own, which is almost invariably diametrically opposed to anything that could be construed as even vagualy sensible. Only the totally witless would follow the advice of these barrack room morons. I fear that the "witless" proportion is, unfortunately, steadily rising.
I won't be leaving, nor will I be removing the PH badge from the car. Not yet, anyway. Nor will I be joining "the other place" that has popped up recently. What I have decided to do is to give more of my time to promoting TVRs in particular - if I spend even a fraction of the time I spend reading absolute rubbish here, to doing that, it should be worthwhile.
Most of my posts are in the p&p I will admit, simply because I am in between cars at this point in time. Still, enjoy the music, food, Australian, general discussion, BMW and Audi subforums, as well as advanced driving. I just tend to read and ask questions rather than answer questions as I am trying to improve my knowledge base.
My concern was not about the p&p, as that it is what it is there for. It's that the type of post that's fine here doesn't really suit a thread about a car getting stolen, as an example.
ETA - I still enjoy it though. Don't get me wrong. One of the best forums I'm on. And considering the size, really not very many problems at all
My concern was not about the p&p, as that it is what it is there for. It's that the type of post that's fine here doesn't really suit a thread about a car getting stolen, as an example.
ETA - I still enjoy it though. Don't get me wrong. One of the best forums I'm on. And considering the size, really not very many problems at all
Edited by Colonial on Monday 5th May 08:47
PH is a bit like the radio - there's some crap, but there's some great stuff too.
The thing with the ruder posts are that they are just words, nobody died, nobody got injured. In this highly politically correct little world we live in, I think it's great that we can write complete nonsense and make each other laugh.
PH is not some weighty and intellectual site for professorial types to expound upon the size of the Higgs Bosun for the reference of the scientific community. It's a site for enjoyment, there will be knob gags, there will be advice about life.
I've been deeply touched by those posting here about the death of their loved ones, the suffering of terminal illness. I've also laughed my socks off at the comic timing and correct usage of clunge, for example.
Lighten up, live and let live.
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