More Piled foundation questions...
Discussion
Piling team are arriving Monday to get digging. Few things I'm trying to get clear in my head...
How do the professionals mark out where each pile is going? I've strung up the walls and footings on the marker boards, but in absence of any other ideas or items to hand I've just stuck a tent peg in the centre of where each pile goes!
How do I indicate where to make the top of the piles? I've got a floor datum point from which I know the bottom of the ring beam will sit 615mm below - do they sort this out, or do they just do them to some arbitrary length?
How does the ring beam engage onto the pile?
How do the professionals mark out where each pile is going? I've strung up the walls and footings on the marker boards, but in absence of any other ideas or items to hand I've just stuck a tent peg in the centre of where each pile goes!
How do I indicate where to make the top of the piles? I've got a floor datum point from which I know the bottom of the ring beam will sit 615mm below - do they sort this out, or do they just do them to some arbitrary length?
How does the ring beam engage onto the pile?
Buy some spray paint to mark the floor with a big X marks the spot! If they are using a mini rig on tracks(I pressume) they will probably end up running over your pegs and you'll have to mark them again.
They'll leave the steel rebar exposed from the pile and then tie the ringbeam steel into this. Then shutter it up and poor the ring beam.
When they shutter up the ring beam they'll work to whatever level is specified.
They'll leave the steel rebar exposed from the pile and then tie the ringbeam steel into this. Then shutter it up and poor the ring beam.
When they shutter up the ring beam they'll work to whatever level is specified.
- thats the way I've seen it done.
Davi said:
Piling team are arriving Monday to get digging. Few things I'm trying to get clear in my head...
How do the professionals mark out where each pile is going? I've strung up the walls and footings on the marker boards, but in absence of any other ideas or items to hand I've just stuck a tent peg in the centre of where each pile goes!
How do I indicate where to make the top of the piles? I've got a floor datum point from which I know the bottom of the ring beam will sit 615mm below - do they sort this out, or do they just do them to some arbitrary length?
How does the ring beam engage onto the pile?
whats this a self build, and you are just getting a piling firm in to sink the piles?How do the professionals mark out where each pile is going? I've strung up the walls and footings on the marker boards, but in absence of any other ideas or items to hand I've just stuck a tent peg in the centre of where each pile goes!
How do I indicate where to make the top of the piles? I've got a floor datum point from which I know the bottom of the ring beam will sit 615mm below - do they sort this out, or do they just do them to some arbitrary length?
How does the ring beam engage onto the pile?
If they are professionals (I'm sure they would be) they will be expect to work from your datums- give them a centre line of the piles on your profile boards and/or the existing walls- they should be able to work from them. At the very worst they would need a spray paint mark (or your tent peg) on the ground at each position.
What type of pile are they installing- 'driven' or 'augered'?
As regards vertical height, with augered in-situ concrete piles, its usual to provide a clean level surface (or 'piling mat') for them to move their rig on- this surface is usually set at the height you need the piles. This needs to be at least 600mm or so above the underside of your ground beams. After the piles have cured (usually min 48 hrs) the top of each is busted out and the reinforcement inside is exposed and bent over for 'tying in' to the ground beam reinforcement, which is the next stage of process.
Hope this helps.
What type of pile are they installing- 'driven' or 'augered'?
As regards vertical height, with augered in-situ concrete piles, its usual to provide a clean level surface (or 'piling mat') for them to move their rig on- this surface is usually set at the height you need the piles. This needs to be at least 600mm or so above the underside of your ground beams. After the piles have cured (usually min 48 hrs) the top of each is busted out and the reinforcement inside is exposed and bent over for 'tying in' to the ground beam reinforcement, which is the next stage of process.
Hope this helps.
Edited by darren f on Saturday 17th May 18:42
Cheers for the replies
It is indeed a professional (and highly recommended) company doing the piling - they are attempting auguring first, may have to move onto driven (very changeable soil)
Profile boards - that's the phrase I was looking for they are all in place, and it was these I used to put the tent pegs in place. I'll be doing the ring beam up myself so wasn't sure what to expect! At the moment most of the area is reasonably level at 100mm below floor height - except for where 3 piles are going that we've had to dig out old footings with a kango (hmm that was a fun way to spend this morning) Hopefully they'll be able to work around the holes, frankly it's their tough if they have to improvise as they've left all the machinery in exactly the place I told them not to!
Don't like the sound of this breaking out the top of the pile though - that sounds like a right arse! be a lot easier if they just stopped filling up the concrete to the level I tell them to. Might have to get a water level out and stand beside them when they are pouring...
It is indeed a professional (and highly recommended) company doing the piling - they are attempting auguring first, may have to move onto driven (very changeable soil)
Profile boards - that's the phrase I was looking for
they are all in place, and it was these I used to put the tent pegs in place. I'll be doing the ring beam up myself so wasn't sure what to expect! At the moment most of the area is reasonably level at 100mm below floor height - except for where 3 piles are going that we've had to dig out old footings with a kango (hmm that was a fun way to spend this morning) Hopefully they'll be able to work around the holes, frankly it's their tough if they have to improvise as they've left all the machinery in exactly the place I told them not to!Don't like the sound of this breaking out the top of the pile though - that sounds like a right arse! be a lot easier if they just stopped filling up the concrete to the level I tell them to. Might have to get a water level out and stand beside them when they are pouring...
Davi said:
Cheers for the replies
It is indeed a professional (and highly recommended) company doing the piling - they are attempting auguring first, may have to move onto driven (very changeable soil)
Profile boards - that's the phrase I was looking for they are all in place, and it was these I used to put the tent pegs in place. I'll be doing the ring beam up myself so wasn't sure what to expect! At the moment most of the area is reasonably level at 100mm below floor height - except for where 3 piles are going that we've had to dig out old footings with a kango (hmm that was a fun way to spend this morning) Hopefully they'll be able to work around the holes, frankly it's their tough if they have to improvise as they've left all the machinery in exactly the place I told them not to!
Don't like the sound of this breaking out the top of the pile though - that sounds like a right arse! be a lot easier if they just stopped filling up the concrete to the level I tell them to. Might have to get a water level out and stand beside them when they are pouring...
i see you are in southampton, you using able piling?It is indeed a professional (and highly recommended) company doing the piling - they are attempting auguring first, may have to move onto driven (very changeable soil)
Profile boards - that's the phrase I was looking for
they are all in place, and it was these I used to put the tent pegs in place. I'll be doing the ring beam up myself so wasn't sure what to expect! At the moment most of the area is reasonably level at 100mm below floor height - except for where 3 piles are going that we've had to dig out old footings with a kango (hmm that was a fun way to spend this morning) Hopefully they'll be able to work around the holes, frankly it's their tough if they have to improvise as they've left all the machinery in exactly the place I told them not to!Don't like the sound of this breaking out the top of the pile though - that sounds like a right arse! be a lot easier if they just stopped filling up the concrete to the level I tell them to. Might have to get a water level out and stand beside them when they are pouring...
Autonotiv said:
i see you are in southampton, you using able piling?
Aye, that be them! Been very helpful to date. Just seen your profession - friend runs a plastering company from Eastleigh (Matt L) Don't know if you know him! ETA - do you work for a firm or freelance? Will be looking for a bricky to do the blockwork in a few weeks (not daft enough to do that myself - it'd end up looking like a Picasso...)
Edited by Davi on Saturday 17th May 20:39
Davi- I hope I didn't offend with the 'professionals' remark- it's just some guys expect you to do more for them before starting than others.
Don't get stressed about the procees of breaking out the piles, it's just that this is how I have seen it usually done- its partly to simplify the process on site because you can have more leeway with the levels. The piles can be busted out accurately and left about 50mm higher than the underside of the ground beams. This also provides a better 'key' for the pile to bond into the ground beam.
By all means talk to your guys and get them to leave the pile concrete low, just make sure they cast in sufficiently long reinforcement starter bars to get continuity into the ground beams. And make sure you clean off the top of the pile concrete (maybe even scabble it as a 'key') before casting the ground beams.
. Don't get stressed about the procees of breaking out the piles, it's just that this is how I have seen it usually done- its partly to simplify the process on site because you can have more leeway with the levels. The piles can be busted out accurately and left about 50mm higher than the underside of the ground beams. This also provides a better 'key' for the pile to bond into the ground beam.
By all means talk to your guys and get them to leave the pile concrete low, just make sure they cast in sufficiently long reinforcement starter bars to get continuity into the ground beams. And make sure you clean off the top of the pile concrete (maybe even scabble it as a 'key') before casting the ground beams.
darren f said:
Davi- I hope I didn't offend with the 'professionals' remark- it's just some guys expect you to do more for them before starting than others.
Don't get stressed about the procees of breaking out the piles, it's just that this is how I have seen it usually done- its partly to simplify the process on site because you can have more leeway with the levels. The piles can be busted out accurately and left about 50mm higher than the underside of the ground beams. This also provides a better 'key' for the pile to bond into the ground beam.
By all means talk to your guys and get them to leave the pile concrete low, just make sure they cast in sufficiently long reinforcement starter bars to get continuity into the ground beams. And make sure you clean off the top of the pile concrete (maybe even scabble it as a 'key') before casting the ground beams.
Not at all mate . Don't get stressed about the procees of breaking out the piles, it's just that this is how I have seen it usually done- its partly to simplify the process on site because you can have more leeway with the levels. The piles can be busted out accurately and left about 50mm higher than the underside of the ground beams. This also provides a better 'key' for the pile to bond into the ground beam.
By all means talk to your guys and get them to leave the pile concrete low, just make sure they cast in sufficiently long reinforcement starter bars to get continuity into the ground beams. And make sure you clean off the top of the pile concrete (maybe even scabble it as a 'key') before casting the ground beams.
I don't really know what to expect. I had hoped to have a good natter with them when the dropped off the equipment but couldn't make it back in time, I may have done way more than they needed / wanted me to do, but thought it safer than not doing enough and them hitching their trailer back up and disappearing.
Slightly worried about the holes I've had to dig to remove the old footings - Being they only held up a small, old, upv conservatory I expected a 150mm or so deep strip footing - not the 500mm deep, 600mm wide thing I found! Me thinks some concrete blocks or something may be called for to run the tracks onto... Of course once they've done that I've got to finish kango'ing out the rest of it so I can replace it with more concrete
Back to researching clayboard now... glad I paid this structural engineer to tell me I need it "to suit site conditions", how helpful.
Davi- The reason why they cast the concrete to the top and then break it back is that if you leave the pile reinforcement exposed within the hole it often gets mashed up by machines etc prior the contractors casting the capping beam.
P.S If you are doing a contigious or secant (interlocking) and want the basement walls sorted, let me know we spray them with concrete (Shotcrete is my company) good luck
P.S If you are doing a contigious or secant (interlocking) and want the basement walls sorted, let me know we spray them with concrete (Shotcrete is my company) good luck
Uncle Pies said:
Davi- The reason why they cast the concrete to the top and then break it back is that if you leave the pile reinforcement exposed within the hole it often gets mashed up by machines etc prior the contractors casting the capping beam.
P.S If you are doing a contigious or secant (interlocking) and want the basement walls sorted, let me know we spray them with concrete (Shotcrete is my company) good luck
Cheers. I was originally thinking of putting a basement in as it would effectively come out at ground level in the back garden - but it proved to be horrendously expensive so that idea was shelved along with many others. P.S If you are doing a contigious or secant (interlocking) and want the basement walls sorted, let me know we spray them with concrete (Shotcrete is my company) good luck
No chance the piles at my place will get mashed up by machines - it was a tight enough squeeze getting the piling auger round there, everything is having to be done by hand!
Davi said:
Autonotiv said:
i see you are in southampton, you using able piling?
Aye, that be them! Been very helpful to date. Just seen your profession - friend runs a plastering company from Eastleigh (Matt L) Don't know if you know him! ETA - do you work for a firm or freelance? Will be looking for a bricky to do the blockwork in a few weeks (not daft enough to do that myself - it'd end up looking like a Picasso...)
Edited by Davi on Saturday 17th May 20:39
I work for a firm unfortunatly.
what is it block work in and out then renderd, big extension?
Autonotiv said:
Davi said:
Autonotiv said:
i see you are in southampton, you using able piling?
Aye, that be them! Been very helpful to date. Just seen your profession - friend runs a plastering company from Eastleigh (Matt L) Don't know if you know him! ETA - do you work for a firm or freelance? Will be looking for a bricky to do the blockwork in a few weeks (not daft enough to do that myself - it'd end up looking like a Picasso...)
Edited by Davi on Saturday 17th May 20:39
I work for a firm unfortunatly.
what is it block work in and out then renderd, big extension?
14 courses of brick external then rendered block above - to match this....
Davi said:
Autonotiv said:
Davi said:
Autonotiv said:
i see you are in southampton, you using able piling?
Aye, that be them! Been very helpful to date. Just seen your profession - friend runs a plastering company from Eastleigh (Matt L) Don't know if you know him! ETA - do you work for a firm or freelance? Will be looking for a bricky to do the blockwork in a few weeks (not daft enough to do that myself - it'd end up looking like a Picasso...)
Edited by Davi on Saturday 17th May 20:39
I work for a firm unfortunatly.
what is it block work in and out then renderd, big extension?
14 courses of brick external then rendered block above - to match this....
Autonotiv said:
Not a bad little job, but i'm affraid i don't know any brick layers in your area (assuming you are in eastleigh) I know a good chippe though.
No worries. I'm actually in Southampton itself rather than Eastleigh. Chippie might be handy in the future if I get stuck! Planning on doing the roof myself, but the wife isn't so keen on the idea...Davi said:
Autonotiv said:
Not a bad little job, but i'm affraid i don't know any brick layers in your area (assuming you are in eastleigh) I know a good chippe though.
No worries. I'm actually in Southampton itself rather than Eastleigh. Chippie might be handy in the future if I get stuck! Planning on doing the roof myself, but the wife isn't so keen on the idea...Saying i don't know any brick layers is a bit of a lie truth be told.
I know a bloke who runs a firm with his mate (just the two of them + a young lad hodding) but they some times only do 3 days a week etc, but they are f
king good.And also a mate had an extension built by a firm and there brick layers were top notch.
Not too bothered if they aren't going to be the fastest at getting it done, more worried about the price being right at the moment - I'm trying to keep them to a bare minimum.
LOL 3 valleys, 3 hips AND taking off half the existing roof so it can be extended higher. Not going to be fun but I've got a good mate who's an ex-chippie of the highest calibre than can give me advice, just can't do the physical work anymore sadly.
Oh and yes, we are indeed praying the rain is minimal the next few days...
LOL 3 valleys, 3 hips AND taking off half the existing roof so it can be extended higher. Not going to be fun but I've got a good mate who's an ex-chippie of the highest calibre than can give me advice, just can't do the physical work anymore sadly.
Oh and yes, we are indeed praying the rain is minimal the next few days...
That will be a roof and a half!!!!!!! :O good luck.
You doing all the roof tiling too?
Good luck, and the weather is going to be good the next few days.
Also for any help you need use this website;
www.screwfix.com/talk
very useful lads on there.
You doing all the roof tiling too?
Good luck, and the weather is going to be good the next few days.
Also for any help you need use this website;
www.screwfix.com/talk
very useful lads on there.
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