"Market evidence" for wages

[briSk]

So other than the old scoring yourself a new job is there any reasonably 'robust' source of data for salries and the likes at 'similar firms'. or is this some sort of utopian expectation?

don't get me wrong i appreciate the fact i haven't been fired. but i don't necessarily want the mythical credit crunch beast to be used to keep my wages down. so i want to start looking into where i can get info from to try and ensure a reasonable pay rise...!

[GreenDog]

A company called Hayes are used by my dept to judge salaries in the industry / area

[Mikeyboy]

Salary surveys. Made up and based on very little evidence usually.

[esselte]

briSk said:

So other than the old scoring yourself a new job is there any reasonably 'robust' source of data for salries and the likes at 'similar firms'. or is this some sort of utopian expectation?

don't get me wrong i appreciate the fact i haven't been fired. but i don't necessarily want the mythical credit crunch beast to be used to keep my wages down. so i want to start looking into where i can get info from to try and ensure a reasonable pay rise...!

As a freelance alchemist shouldn't you be deciding your own wages anyway?...

[bga]

Mikeyboy said:

Salary surveys. Made up and based on very little evidence usually.

It depends who you use. There are a number of firms out there who poll employers in a sector. If the employers respond then they generally get the collated data in return. The salary benchmarking firms then sell the data to non-participants.

[minghis]

http://www.reed.co.uk/CareerTools/SalaryCalculator...

[briSk]

good stuff chaps.

keep it coming if you have anything even half-useful to add...

[HarveyB]

minghis said:

http://www.reed.co.uk/CareerTools/SalaryCalculator...

I've always been slightly suspicious of these- surely recruitment agencies have a distinct incentive to tell bump up average earnings to keep the market moving?

[minghis]

HarveyB said:

minghis said:

http://www.reed.co.uk/CareerTools/SalaryCalculator...

I've always been slightly suspicious of these- surely recruitment agencies have a distinct incentive to tell bump up average earnings to keep the market moving?

I think they just take an average of all the jobs they advertise in each sector, in my experience of my industry it always seems to be about right.

[Mikeyboy]

HarveyB said:

minghis said:

http://www.reed.co.uk/CareerTools/SalaryCalculator...

I've always been slightly suspicious of these- surely recruitment agencies have a distinct incentive to tell bump up average earnings to keep the market moving?

partly thats the problem but not purely becuase of recruitment firms its also because people will always exagerate their earnings if they think they can push up their income by doing so.

hence these things are mostly guess work and I refuse to supply them to my clients.

Oddly I saw a salary survey for my job the other day. It was wildly out.

[anonymous-user]

Mikeyboy said:

Salary surveys. Made up and based on very little evidence usually.

rubbish free ones - quite likely. Ones from Mercer, Watson Wyatt, rather good

[ettore]

GreenDog said:

A company called Hayes are used by my dept to judge salaries in the industry / area

It`s probably Hay rather than Hayes. Hay Managment Consultants are well known for salary benchmarking.

[Mikeyboy]

wsurfa said:

Mikeyboy said:

Salary surveys. Made up and based on very little evidence usually.

rubbish free ones - quite likely. Ones from Mercer, Watson Wyatt, rather good

And why pray would they be any more accurate? Do people not exagerate when talking to them? Are people more open when the Mercer researcher gives the company name? Hmm I can't see why they would be.

Also considering its a sackable offence within many of the firms those two cover to talk about salaries I would very much doubt they have ever spoken to enough people to get a broad enough cross section to be representative. Ask yourself if there is anyone you know who as actually given this information to these people?
They are perhaps more professionally presented but I would doubt very much they are any more accurate.

I have yet to read a salary survey that is accurate, they just can't be.

[anonymous-user]

Mikeyboy said:

wsurfa said:

Mikeyboy said:

Salary surveys. Made up and based on very little evidence usually.

rubbish free ones - quite likely. Ones from Mercer, Watson Wyatt, rather good

And why pray would they be any more accurate? Do people not exagerate when talking to them? Are people more open when the Mercer researcher gives the company name? Hmm I can't see why they would be.

Also considering its a sackable offence within many of the firms those two cover to talk about salaries I would very much doubt they have ever spoken to enough people to get a broad enough cross section to be representative. Ask yourself if there is anyone you know who as actually given this information to these people?
They are perhaps more professionally presented but I would doubt very much they are any more accurate.

I have yet to read a salary survey that is accurate, they just can't be.

[anonymous-user]

Mikeyboy said:

wsurfa said:

Mikeyboy said:

Salary surveys. Made up and based on very little evidence usually.

rubbish free ones - quite likely. Ones from Mercer, Watson Wyatt, rather good

And why pray would they be any more accurate? Do people not exagerate when talking to them? Are people more open when the Mercer researcher gives the company name? Hmm I can't see why they would be.

Also considering its a sackable offence within many of the firms those two cover to talk about salaries I would very much doubt they have ever spoken to enough people to get a broad enough cross section to be representative. Ask yourself if there is anyone you know who as actually given this information to these people?
They are perhaps more professionally presented but I would doubt very much they are any more accurate.

I have yet to read a salary survey that is accurate, they just can't be.

Yes I could probably name 30 people at the top 30 high tech firms across Europe, or 10 from the top 10 actuarial who will know the exact full comp of each employee of the business. They will be the senior C&B people for those businesses and will spend a significant time job matching to the individual survey prior to submission.

These surveys are in the main very accurate across the industries they survey

[Simpo Two]

Mikeyboy said:

Also considering its a sackable offence within many of the firms those two cover to talk about salaries

So if you tell someone how much you earn you can get sacked? Christ, I'm glad I don't work within such corporate toss.

[anonymous-user]

Simpo Two said:

Mikeyboy said:

Also considering its a sackable offence within many of the firms those two cover to talk about salaries

So if you tell someone how much you earn you can get sacked? Christ, I'm glad I don't work within such corporate toss.

Yep - at salary review time, literally dozens of people get sacked after discussing every employee's salary - perfectly normal ;-)

Some companies do have these fairly dumb rules re discussion of salary between employees - generally the C&B people can sneak it under the radar though

[Rach81]

Reading the job ads for "down south" compared to how much I earn up here in Scotland really really annoys me! Only another 8 months before I come back to the real world

[Bigel]

HarveyB said:

minghis said:

http://www.reed.co.uk/CareerTools/SalaryCalculator...

I've always been slightly suspicious of these- surely recruitment agencies have a distinct incentive to tell bump up average earnings to keep the market moving?

Having seen loads of these being done in various recruitment firms I'd def say that most consultants asked just give the first figure that comes into their head so I'd be cautious of their accuracy. On the other hand recruitment people are one of the few who will actually know what the market's paying as thats what they bill on with the clients. Just make sure you ask people who specialise in that are/have enough volume for a cross section not just what one job is paying.

[skwdenyer]

briSk said:

but i don't necessarily want the mythical credit crunch beast to be used to keep my wages down.

I don't know what sector you're working in, but this beast is definitely not "mythical" in most of them.

In most of the areas I'm involved with, it is starting to feel very much as it did after 9/11, which is not good at all.

Unfortunately, for many people, a real-terms salary cut is very likely.