where has the hole in the ozone layer gone
Discussion
Davros79 said:
It was a genuine problem, but luckily the scientific fix was easy (remove CFCs from Aerosols etc).
http://www.mitosyfraudes.org/Ingles/OzoneTheory.ht...
http://zoneoftruth.com/OZONE.html
Etc...
We can never be sure that the ozone hole didn't fix itself. It was only discovered in the 1960s and we have no idea if it has a natural cyclical life of its own.
So, patting ourselves on the back on this issue may be rather premature.
I give you the acid rain point. However, that was partly "solved" by moving much heavy industry elsewhere so may be a problem for other countries now.
So, patting ourselves on the back on this issue may be rather premature.
I give you the acid rain point. However, that was partly "solved" by moving much heavy industry elsewhere so may be a problem for other countries now.
jacobyte said:
Davros79 said:
It was a genuine problem, but luckily the scientific fix was easy (remove CFCs from Aerosols etc).
http://www.mitosyfraudes.org/Ingles/OzoneTheory.ht...
http://zoneoftruth.com/OZONE.html
Etc...
ChristianZS said:
Oh no!
The Acid Rain... arrrggghhh!
it still exists... (blame the nickel mines in northern canada for it...)The Acid Rain... arrrggghhh!
and the hole in the ozone is still there, it was stopped by getting worse through preventative means, but its still above the artic... and strangely can have an effect on accelerated melting of the ice caps...
but that doesnt play to well alongside the MMGW argument does it
The problem for the environmentalists with the Hole in the Ozone Layer problem was that its "man made" element was pinned down to a fairly straightforward single cause. "Fixing" the problem was therefore easy (even if the "fix" may not be as permanent as people might think).
The brilliant aspect of MMGW from the environmentalists point of view is that it is supposedly caused by lifestyle, bad habits, being capitalist in nature, not wearing sandals, breathing, growing the wrong crops, buying the wrong things, driving the wrong type of car, using the wrong type of telly, leaving our electrical goods on standby, going on holiday, taking a plane trip, liking "tecchie" things, travelling to London by car, filling up our bins with the wrong type of rubbish, not eating enough lentils, not buying enough imported good, buying too many imported goods etc etc etc.
So, they have us on EVERYTHING we do. In their eyes, there is really NO fix for MMGW unless we revert to some sort of pre-medieval, pre-industrial society where we all die by 35 anyway.
In fact, they have even broadened their brief by substituting the term "climate change" in lieu of MMGW, just in case the MMGW argument becomes so discredited that ANY movement in the earth's temperature will be covered by our "bad" behaviour.
The brilliant aspect of MMGW from the environmentalists point of view is that it is supposedly caused by lifestyle, bad habits, being capitalist in nature, not wearing sandals, breathing, growing the wrong crops, buying the wrong things, driving the wrong type of car, using the wrong type of telly, leaving our electrical goods on standby, going on holiday, taking a plane trip, liking "tecchie" things, travelling to London by car, filling up our bins with the wrong type of rubbish, not eating enough lentils, not buying enough imported good, buying too many imported goods etc etc etc.
So, they have us on EVERYTHING we do. In their eyes, there is really NO fix for MMGW unless we revert to some sort of pre-medieval, pre-industrial society where we all die by 35 anyway.
In fact, they have even broadened their brief by substituting the term "climate change" in lieu of MMGW, just in case the MMGW argument becomes so discredited that ANY movement in the earth's temperature will be covered by our "bad" behaviour.
Davros79 said:
It was a genuine problem, but luckily the scientific fix was easy (remove CFCs from Aerosols etc). What amazing is that they didn't even need to tax anybody to do it!
Genuine problem...the fix was easy...why do we keep seeing this sort of stuff on PH?Follow these through:
2001
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTI...
2003
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/08...
2006
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1710757...
From the ozone panto coverage:
New research indicates the ozone hole over Antarctica is bigger than last year and could reach record size. The CSIRO says new data shows the ozone hole is now about 27 million square kilometres, 1 million square kilometres smaller than the record set in 2000.
Meanwhile a recent paper by Rex has blown apart the so-called settled science of stratospheric chloride chemistry. Commentary on this:
"If the measurements are correct we can basically no longer say we understand how ozone holes come into being."
Markus Rex, News@Nature, 26 September 2007
"Our understanding of chloride chemistry has really been blown apart."
John Crowley, Max Planck Institute of Chemistry, 26 September 2007
Reminiscent of the MMGWT fiasco, ozone holes were there when we were able to look at and map ozone globally (discovered around the turn of the last century, mapped from about the 50s) it's not as though the planet had a perfectly even ozone layer and then whoops where'd it go. Thinning was assumed to be down to CFCs but the chemistry is now blown apart. Actual evidence as above - as opposed to guilt tripping - points to ozone depletion and repletion as a natural cycle driven by solar UV changes and stratospheric temperature changes.
That's not to say we don't still get comments from the pollution industry and the green industry saying stuff like 'we need to keep the pressure on as the protocol is working'. What this means is, we had no idea Rex would come along and turn our cosy world upside down so we need to wait until nature fills in the holes a bit then we can start shouting again about how we caused the problem and then fixed the problem. Once again only the uninformed and the gullible will fall for it.
Edited by turbobloke on Tuesday 5th August 09:06
Looking at the data from http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/
it looks to me like the size of the ozone hole has stabilised, and the reports of the hole being bigger than ever in 2006 etc are just natural variation (the size of the ozone hole is also temperature dependent, so the weather has an influence), and no big deal.
it looks to me like the size of the ozone hole has stabilised, and the reports of the hole being bigger than ever in 2006 etc are just natural variation (the size of the ozone hole is also temperature dependent, so the weather has an influence), and no big deal.
turbobloke said:
bottom of linked article said:
Last spring ozone cover over the UK neared record lows following the coldest Arctic winter on record
Hello!!!! Are there any other sources that mention the coldest artic winter on record? I thought it was all melting? That would have been 2005 (article 2006), which would have happened while everything was melting, so how does that fit in?As I understand it, the hole in the ozone layer just fell out of favour with the public who got bored with it.
It went through a rough time, drugs, alcohol rehab etc but is coming back with a new single and is likely to feature in next year's 'I'm a Z list environmental concern; GET ME OUT OF HERE!'
John Kettley told me that in a Hooters bar recently.
It went through a rough time, drugs, alcohol rehab etc but is coming back with a new single and is likely to feature in next year's 'I'm a Z list environmental concern; GET ME OUT OF HERE!'
John Kettley told me that in a Hooters bar recently.
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