Science question
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Discussion

Bushmaster

Original Poster:

27,593 posts

310 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Satellites orbiting the earth.

They eventually fall out of orbit right? Small ones burn up but big ones don't and there is brief excitment on the news about where they will land? Right?

The moon.

Orbits the earth like a big satellite.

So when is it going to come down and cause that brief flurry of excitment?



OllieBirmingham

5,702 posts

223 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
After you are dead probably. Well, not just you but all of us.

s2art

18,942 posts

284 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Tidal forces are moving it away from the Earth.

Saskia7

176 posts

219 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Bushmaster said:
Satellites orbiting the earth.

They eventually fall out of orbit right? Small ones burn up but big ones don't and there is brief excitment on the news about where they will land? Right?

The moon.

Orbits the earth like a big satellite.

So when is it going to come down and cause that brief flurry of excitment?
I may be wrong, but I thought the two were going in different directions, with the Earth slowing down and the moon therefore moving away....

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

286 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Wednesday afternoon...

Chilli

17,320 posts

267 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
s2art said:
Tidal forces are moving it away from the Earth.
Really? How the hell do the tides effect something in space?

Saskia7

176 posts

219 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
tonyvid said:
Saskia7 said:
Bushmaster said:
Satellites orbiting the earth.

They eventually fall out of orbit right? Small ones burn up but big ones don't and there is brief excitment on the news about where they will land? Right?

The moon.

Orbits the earth like a big satellite.

So when is it going to come down and cause that brief flurry of excitment?
I may be wrong, but I thought the two were going in different directions, with the Earth slowing down and the moon therefore moving away....
Moving down relative to what? smile
Slowing down relative to time. I may be wrong.

Mr E

23,098 posts

290 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
s2art said:
Tidal forces are moving it away from the Earth.
And slowing the earths rotation down.

randomman

2,215 posts

220 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Saturday, but it'll be after the large hadron collider has killed us all, so dont worry.

I'm bloody pee'd off about it to be honest, was going to have a big party saturday night

Silverbullet767

11,370 posts

237 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Chilli said:
s2art said:
Tidal forces are moving it away from the Earth.
Really? How the hell do the tides effect something in space?
I thought the moon effected the seas, making tides, looks like a giant eyeball, the water is 'pulled' slightly in the centre.

s2art

18,942 posts

284 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Chilli said:
s2art said:
Tidal forces are moving it away from the Earth.
Really? How the hell do the tides effect something in space?
The same way the oceans are pulled around by the moon. The Earth has a similar effect on the moon. Basically the moon is slowing the Earth spin down and, due to conservation of momentum, is being pushed further away.

Tpfkalm

72 posts

219 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
As far as the earth and moon are concerned, consider them a system.

Look up prograde, retrograde and parking orbits.


Neil_H

15,418 posts

282 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
The moon is moving away from us by a few cm per year. There are plans to anchor it here with a gigantic dog lead, but no one has so far volunteered to keep hold of it, and there are design issues with the collar.

Bushmaster

Original Poster:

27,593 posts

310 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Tpfkalm said:
As far as the earth and moon are concerned, consider them a system.

Look up prograde, retrograde and parking orbits.
Is parking orbits what you do when there isn't any space?








Did you see what I did there? Did you?

Edited by Bushmaster on Thursday 7th August 16:25

thewave

14,877 posts

240 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Neil_H said:
The moon is moving away from us by a few cm per year. There are plans to anchor it here with a gigantic dog lead, but no one has so far volunteered to keep hold of it, and there are design issues with the collar.
It's certainly a relief we overcome the logistical issues <phew>

ludo

5,308 posts

235 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
according to Iain Stewart's book "Earth : Power of the Planet" (page 224)

Stewart said:
About 5 billion years from now, as the Sun's hydrogen fuel becomes deplete, it will swell into a red giant. To see this from Eart would be to see the Sun completely filling the daytime sky. Its radiation will be 2000 times more powerful than now, causing the Earth's surface to heat up beyond 2000 degrees C - hot enough to melt mountains and smooth over the entire planet.

It is truely a catyclismic end for our planet. As the Sun flares out, its atmosphere will produce a drag force on the Moon, forcing it to spiral inwards and collide with the Earth, the planet that gave birth to it so many bilions of years before. The expanding Sun will become as much as 6000 times brighter than today, its diameter pulsing out to the size of Earth's orbit. Earth will cease to exist.
From the "Further Reading", I expect this comes from Ward and Brownlee, "The Life and Death of Planet Earth", Piatkus Books, 2003.

Thudd

3,100 posts

238 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
Last time I checked, the moon was a bit further away than the man-made satellites. There's no chance of it coming home.

mattikake

5,119 posts

230 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
s2art said:
Chilli said:
s2art said:
Tidal forces are moving it away from the Earth.
Really? How the hell do the tides effect something in space?
The same way the oceans are pulled around by the moon. The Earth has a similar effect on the moon. Basically the moon is slowing the Earth spin down and, due to conservation of momentum, is being pushed further away.
Yep. The Moon also stabalises the Earth's spin. Without it, the Earth would spin wildily about it's tilted axis, to the extreme that the poles would even directly face the Sun at times. It's part of what matches current theory about the Moon being crust material from Earth after a collision with a Mars sized body in the protoplanetary stage. Billions of years ago the moon would've have filled a large portion of the sky and would seem to hardly move. I will stop off to see that when I build my time machine.

The moon is moving away at something like 1 inch per orbit or 1 inch per year or something?


Tpfkalm

72 posts

219 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
OK, so tying this in with the lifespan of water based living stuff on the planet.

If water solvated biochemistry as about 2.2 Billion years left.

Will we get screwed up by the swelling sun in that time OR what happens to climate change when the moon buggers off.

If the moon is about 384403Km away. 100M years with "a couple of centimeters per year" is 200,000,000 cm or about 2000km.

Would the rate speed up as it loses grip?

mattikake

5,119 posts

230 months

Thursday 7th August 2008
quotequote all
I guess so. Space-time will be less curved as the Moon moves further away from the Earth. As the orbital path becomes straight, so it will move further away at an accelerated rate. When though... dunno, I'll leave that to those good at maths!