I think they've changed me........ Politics.
Discussion
This political rubbish......
I have to admit to having voted labour all my (short) life. I grew up in possibly the strongest of labour strong holds......
My MP was the Beast of Bolsover..... Dennis Skinner. I've been brought up to think labour, vote labour and think labour are ace.
But I don't think they are anymore.
David C's speech yesterday didn't really set the world on fire for me but he seemed to be actually speaking sense. I know most of its just for sound bites and so on and so forth but it just made so much more sense that what i've heard spouted by the Labour boys and girls.
My local MP is now a Bleedin heart liberal and i'm not about to vote for him (even though he does seem quite useful and replies to all my emails - Clive Betts) so I think its gonna have to be a switch to the Conservatives......
Just don't tell my dad - he'll disown me.
Anyone else making a big change?
I have to admit to having voted labour all my (short) life. I grew up in possibly the strongest of labour strong holds......
My MP was the Beast of Bolsover..... Dennis Skinner. I've been brought up to think labour, vote labour and think labour are ace.
But I don't think they are anymore.
David C's speech yesterday didn't really set the world on fire for me but he seemed to be actually speaking sense. I know most of its just for sound bites and so on and so forth but it just made so much more sense that what i've heard spouted by the Labour boys and girls.
My local MP is now a Bleedin heart liberal and i'm not about to vote for him (even though he does seem quite useful and replies to all my emails - Clive Betts) so I think its gonna have to be a switch to the Conservatives......
Just don't tell my dad - he'll disown me.
Anyone else making a big change?
172ff said:
Cameron hasnt changed you.
You've just spent to much time on here!
Very true ...You've just spent to much time on here!
Housemate has been a life long labour supporter, but even he's not best pleased with the current government.
Not totally sure Cameron would be much of an improvement, but a change is desparately needed.
chris_w666 said:
I too live in a Labour Stronghold and the only decent(ish) politician we ever get running for election is their candidate.
Sadly the only choice is usually vote for a feckless no mark with no chance of winning or don't vote and I've never managed to not vote yet.
I’m not singling you out but you do present one of the main reasons why there is so often little change. Sadly the only choice is usually vote for a feckless no mark with no chance of winning or don't vote and I've never managed to not vote yet.
The attitude that you have is that there is no point in voting against the Labour guy because they will win anyway and you aren’t sure the others are much cop. Hence for years to come Labour will put whoever they please, knowing that it is a safe(ish) seat, whilst the others will blood their new members in a contest they are not expected to win and you will not get the candidates you deserve to oppose the old guard.
If you vote for, say, the conservatives, and your like minded friends do it is still unlikely that you will have anything other than a Labour victory first time round but it will be noted that the seat is less of a dead cert and more effort will be put into winning a ‘winable’ battle than a no hoper.
Get out there and get voting, even if it is tactical!
My family (rather my grandparents and their relatives) were Labour, Labour, Labour.
It was us or them they would say. You could whack a red rosette on a monkey and he'd get a thumping majority. My father failed his 11+ and so he did what people did, learnt a trade. He HAD to join a union to get work as a chippie.
When Labour led this country into bankruptcy, my father had had enough, his brother famously was one of those the crossed the line when Red Robbo ran Longbridge.
My grandparents though, were real Labour. Thatcher was the devil incarnate.
Me, I have never held truck with anything to do with Labour, my father took heed of Thatcher's words and so did my Uncle. We have prospered long term, I was the first to go to Uni in my family off the back of the whole personal responsibility and ideals of real meritocracy that Thatcher truly believed in. We're not talking rags to riches but home ownership, improving your lot through training and taking responsibility really does work.
My father, uncle, even grandkid (me) were held up as class traitors by some of our relatives. I personally enjoyed telling each and everyone of them to f
k off.
For me the choice is stark, know your place and romantically believe in long expired 'ideals' trusting those to tell you what to do or stand on your own two feet, strike out, make your own decisions and make a go of it.
I'm all for helping the latter and encouraging the former with a hand up too.
So I'm a Tory and I always will be.
As for your area, make a case for a change, better to be true to yourself than not. People might disagree with you but they will respect you for at least having an opinion and the principles behind it.
Lastly, it is not your purpose in life to be universally liked but to do what you think is right.
It was us or them they would say. You could whack a red rosette on a monkey and he'd get a thumping majority. My father failed his 11+ and so he did what people did, learnt a trade. He HAD to join a union to get work as a chippie.
When Labour led this country into bankruptcy, my father had had enough, his brother famously was one of those the crossed the line when Red Robbo ran Longbridge.
My grandparents though, were real Labour. Thatcher was the devil incarnate.
Me, I have never held truck with anything to do with Labour, my father took heed of Thatcher's words and so did my Uncle. We have prospered long term, I was the first to go to Uni in my family off the back of the whole personal responsibility and ideals of real meritocracy that Thatcher truly believed in. We're not talking rags to riches but home ownership, improving your lot through training and taking responsibility really does work.
My father, uncle, even grandkid (me) were held up as class traitors by some of our relatives. I personally enjoyed telling each and everyone of them to f
k off.For me the choice is stark, know your place and romantically believe in long expired 'ideals' trusting those to tell you what to do or stand on your own two feet, strike out, make your own decisions and make a go of it.
I'm all for helping the latter and encouraging the former with a hand up too.
So I'm a Tory and I always will be.
As for your area, make a case for a change, better to be true to yourself than not. People might disagree with you but they will respect you for at least having an opinion and the principles behind it.
Lastly, it is not your purpose in life to be universally liked but to do what you think is right.
Edited by 215cu on Thursday 2nd October 11:03
215cu said:
My father, uncle, even grandkid (me) were held up as class traitors by some of our relatives. I personally enjoyed telling each and everyone of them to fk off.
My mother went through the same. I find it totally bizarre that people can act so pettily over historical political divides.k off.215cu said:
So I'm a Tory and I always will be.
Careful, never trust any government, all things in moderation, etc.I never understand why people are tied to a party and feel some kind of allegiance to them supporting them for years. The parties shift together from left to right and vice versa.
None of the main parties seem to be parties of the left or right anymore and are in such a change of flux that nobody seems to know what either represents. Certainly the core values have changed hugely since the 70s and 80s.
None of the main parties seem to be parties of the left or right anymore and are in such a change of flux that nobody seems to know what either represents. Certainly the core values have changed hugely since the 70s and 80s.
Does it really matter which faction of which party is in power? They all believe in the same basic principles and have shown themselves capable of both 'good' and 'bad' policy decisions. Generally they seem to be victims of circumstance and are happy to either take the credit/blame their predecessors or global economic conditions.
Some governments will have benefited a particular individual, others will have hindered their aspirations. Over the course of a typical lifetime, I'd imagine it all evens out.
They each have their supporters who benefit from the policies of that particular government. There are others who find they are disadvantaged as a result of those same policies. Eventually, the group who perceive themselves to be worse off becomes a majority and we switch governments. They begin their term on a wave of voter enthusiasm and goodwill. This degenerates into apathy and eventually resentment. All change again.
Some governments will have benefited a particular individual, others will have hindered their aspirations. Over the course of a typical lifetime, I'd imagine it all evens out.
They each have their supporters who benefit from the policies of that particular government. There are others who find they are disadvantaged as a result of those same policies. Eventually, the group who perceive themselves to be worse off becomes a majority and we switch governments. They begin their term on a wave of voter enthusiasm and goodwill. This degenerates into apathy and eventually resentment. All change again.
Edited by Risotto on Thursday 2nd October 11:16
I too don't understand the "I'm a Tory/Labour/Liberal/Green/MRLP voter and always will be" attitude - why not evaluate each party's manifesto on its merits rather than deciding beforehand? You might well end up voting for the same party as you usually do but at least you've engaged with the democratic process.
Dan,
I know exactly what you mean. Clive Betts is my MP too, and I agree he's always responded to my emails; and taken action when needed.
However as a (previously) life long Labour voter I have to say that I've been veering towards the blue end of the spectrum for a while now.
The government (small g on purpose) has become complacent, and we need to change it ASAP.
I'm not saying that things will be that much better under a Tory Government, especially Cameron; I'd much prefer Boris to be Tory leader.
We need someone with the balls to tackle the benefit culture, and get Britain back to work. I'm not sure if Cameron is that person but, I'm bloody sure Gordon isn't.
I know exactly what you mean. Clive Betts is my MP too, and I agree he's always responded to my emails; and taken action when needed.
However as a (previously) life long Labour voter I have to say that I've been veering towards the blue end of the spectrum for a while now.
The government (small g on purpose) has become complacent, and we need to change it ASAP.
I'm not saying that things will be that much better under a Tory Government, especially Cameron; I'd much prefer Boris to be Tory leader.
We need someone with the balls to tackle the benefit culture, and get Britain back to work. I'm not sure if Cameron is that person but, I'm bloody sure Gordon isn't.
Same here.
Came from a Labour area (Valleys of South Wales). Was directly affected when the MIners went on strike as was my wife (Her father was a faceworking miner).
Hell, I went to collect with Neil kinnock's son
Maggie played and destroyed the unions in this country and, many years later I read her biography and, although at the time I also had no interest in politics, Looking back, her values were good. She stood up to the bullyboy unions, she stood strong against world critisism and took this country into a new age. Yes, she is bonkers now but she had Balls!. Something that no PM has had since IMHO.
OK, they introduced the Fuel Escallator, the Poll Tax but they also gave people the ability to get out of post war povety and to beable to own their own homes. She took no st and, when dealing with protesters she kicked ass. (even when the IRA bombed the Brighton Hotel she appeared and gave a statement to the press).
New Labour .. No thanks ... Give me a Tory Government with the balls to make the UK a great nation again and they'll have my vote.
Came from a Labour area (Valleys of South Wales). Was directly affected when the MIners went on strike as was my wife (Her father was a faceworking miner).
Hell, I went to collect with Neil kinnock's son
Maggie played and destroyed the unions in this country and, many years later I read her biography and, although at the time I also had no interest in politics, Looking back, her values were good. She stood up to the bullyboy unions, she stood strong against world critisism and took this country into a new age. Yes, she is bonkers now but she had Balls!. Something that no PM has had since IMHO.
OK, they introduced the Fuel Escallator, the Poll Tax but they also gave people the ability to get out of post war povety and to beable to own their own homes. She took no s
t and, when dealing with protesters she kicked ass. (even when the IRA bombed the Brighton Hotel she appeared and gave a statement to the press).New Labour .. No thanks ... Give me a Tory Government with the balls to make the UK a great nation again and they'll have my vote.
I'm in a similar position to the OP. I was even a labour party member for a while, until I sent my membership card back in disgust about 8/9 years ago.
I would describe my politics as "socialist" (with a small S) but believe that the centre ground policy that the current Labour party occupies is not a socialist movement. Cameron's talk of community, of social responsibility, for me hits more buttons than anything I've heard from the labour politicos.
I do worry about the Tories though. Is "call me Dave" strong enough to keep that message, against the further right elements in the party? I suspect that he might be personally very strong, based on his personal life, in the next 12 months I will be watching carefully to see how the party either supports him, or divides (that old Tory trick) and loses.
In addition, I do have a lot of time for his shadow foreign secretary (William Hague).
I would describe my politics as "socialist" (with a small S) but believe that the centre ground policy that the current Labour party occupies is not a socialist movement. Cameron's talk of community, of social responsibility, for me hits more buttons than anything I've heard from the labour politicos.
I do worry about the Tories though. Is "call me Dave" strong enough to keep that message, against the further right elements in the party? I suspect that he might be personally very strong, based on his personal life, in the next 12 months I will be watching carefully to see how the party either supports him, or divides (that old Tory trick) and loses.
In addition, I do have a lot of time for his shadow foreign secretary (William Hague).
cs02rm0 said:
215cu said:
My father, uncle, even grandkid (me) were held up as class traitors by some of our relatives. I personally enjoyed telling each and everyone of them to fk off.
My mother went through the same. I find it totally bizarre that people can act so pettily over historical political divides.k off.215cu said:
So I'm a Tory and I always will be.
Careful, never trust any government, all things in moderation, etc.I can't see the Lib Dems (who want to either tax more or less than the incumbent) or Labour with their big nanny government and tax and spend are going to change.
The BNP are socialist fascists and UKIP are a one issue party of eye-swivelling loons.
So I'm Tory and for the foreseeable future I always will be.
aclivity said:
I'm in a similar position to the OP. I was even a labour party member for a while, until I sent my membership card back in disgust about 8/9 years ago.
I would describe my politics as "socialist" (with a small S) but believe that the centre ground policy that the current Labour party occupies is not a socialist movement. Cameron's talk of community, of social responsibility, for me hits more buttons than anything I've heard from the labour politicos.
I do worry about the Tories though. Is "call me Dave" strong enough to keep that message, against the further right elements in the party? I suspect that he might be personally very strong, based on his personal life, in the next 12 months I will be watching carefully to see how the party either supports him, or divides (that old Tory trick) and loses.
In addition, I do have a lot of time for his shadow foreign secretary (William Hague).
I really think you don't know what socialism is.I would describe my politics as "socialist" (with a small S) but believe that the centre ground policy that the current Labour party occupies is not a socialist movement. Cameron's talk of community, of social responsibility, for me hits more buttons than anything I've heard from the labour politicos.
I do worry about the Tories though. Is "call me Dave" strong enough to keep that message, against the further right elements in the party? I suspect that he might be personally very strong, based on his personal life, in the next 12 months I will be watching carefully to see how the party either supports him, or divides (that old Tory trick) and loses.
In addition, I do have a lot of time for his shadow foreign secretary (William Hague).
My family is true blue but its quite surprising that my maternal Grandfather was posibly the staunchest tory of the lot.
He was born in Whitechapel in the 1900's. As poor as you got, yet he always held the fundamental belief that if you work your nuts of, you should get the reward. If you don't work hard, you get what you deserve - fk all.
Pretty simple stuff all in all.
He was born in Whitechapel in the 1900's. As poor as you got, yet he always held the fundamental belief that if you work your nuts of, you should get the reward. If you don't work hard, you get what you deserve - f
k all.Pretty simple stuff all in all.
Convert - its a problem - isn't it?
Clive Betts - seems to be an excellant MP - responds to all my queries seems to do exactly what he's meant to do. Really seems to take an interest in his constituants problems etc.
But can i vote for him knowing that all of his parties beliefs are ones that I disagree with?
Clive Betts - seems to be an excellant MP - responds to all my queries seems to do exactly what he's meant to do. Really seems to take an interest in his constituants problems etc.
But can i vote for him knowing that all of his parties beliefs are ones that I disagree with?
215cu said:
aclivity said:
I'm in a similar position to the OP. I was even a labour party member for a while, until I sent my membership card back in disgust about 8/9 years ago.
I would describe my politics as "socialist" (with a small S) but believe that the centre ground policy that the current Labour party occupies is not a socialist movement. Cameron's talk of community, of social responsibility, for me hits more buttons than anything I've heard from the labour politicos.
I do worry about the Tories though. Is "call me Dave" strong enough to keep that message, against the further right elements in the party? I suspect that he might be personally very strong, based on his personal life, in the next 12 months I will be watching carefully to see how the party either supports him, or divides (that old Tory trick) and loses.
In addition, I do have a lot of time for his shadow foreign secretary (William Hague).
I really think you don't know what socialism is.I would describe my politics as "socialist" (with a small S) but believe that the centre ground policy that the current Labour party occupies is not a socialist movement. Cameron's talk of community, of social responsibility, for me hits more buttons than anything I've heard from the labour politicos.
I do worry about the Tories though. Is "call me Dave" strong enough to keep that message, against the further right elements in the party? I suspect that he might be personally very strong, based on his personal life, in the next 12 months I will be watching carefully to see how the party either supports him, or divides (that old Tory trick) and loses.
In addition, I do have a lot of time for his shadow foreign secretary (William Hague).
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