How the welfare system needs reforming
Discussion
Right, I have been thinking about this a while.
I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Crazy it may sound, but I was thinking that for food, there could be rations and these could be obtained via food vouchers, these could be redeemable to a certain value at the major supermarkets. No cigarettes, no booze, just basic food from various nutitional groups. Some milk and water to be included in that. No juice or pop. No chocolate/sweets.
Clothing - Vouchers to the value of £10 bi-monthly per person to be redeemed at a charity shop like Oxfam, thus the government is paying something towards charity and not putting money to be wasted into the pockets of the scroungers. £10 should be more than enough for a few items of clothing at these shops.
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers including a gas/electric token to a certain value. Can't manage your home's fuel budget? Best get down Oxfam then with your clothing vouchers and get some jumpers eh?!
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants.
The only thing I'm unsure about is how people would get buses to the job centre to search for jobs etc. The best thing I have so far is a vocher/stamp system. 10 bus journeys per week allowed up to a certain distance. Ticket must be stamped by driver on each journey. If you abuse these journeys for personal use, that's up to you. But 10's your limit (obviously up for review if you need 2 buses to reach a job centre etc.).
Yup, it's a sh*t way to live.
And so it f*cking should be when it's free and costing the rest of us! A bit of enforced poverty spec living might just send a few of these lazy f*ckers back to work! Taking away their booze and fags is, sadly, probably the biggest motivation for them to get off their arses.
Nobody can claim that they can't get by and that it's unfair with such a system - it's the same for everybody and they will be given sufficient amounts of each item to get by.
Interested in thoughts/comments? Am I mad? LOL
I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Crazy it may sound, but I was thinking that for food, there could be rations and these could be obtained via food vouchers, these could be redeemable to a certain value at the major supermarkets. No cigarettes, no booze, just basic food from various nutitional groups. Some milk and water to be included in that. No juice or pop. No chocolate/sweets.
Clothing - Vouchers to the value of £10 bi-monthly per person to be redeemed at a charity shop like Oxfam, thus the government is paying something towards charity and not putting money to be wasted into the pockets of the scroungers. £10 should be more than enough for a few items of clothing at these shops.
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers including a gas/electric token to a certain value. Can't manage your home's fuel budget? Best get down Oxfam then with your clothing vouchers and get some jumpers eh?!
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants.
The only thing I'm unsure about is how people would get buses to the job centre to search for jobs etc. The best thing I have so far is a vocher/stamp system. 10 bus journeys per week allowed up to a certain distance. Ticket must be stamped by driver on each journey. If you abuse these journeys for personal use, that's up to you. But 10's your limit (obviously up for review if you need 2 buses to reach a job centre etc.).
Yup, it's a sh*t way to live.
And so it f*cking should be when it's free and costing the rest of us! A bit of enforced poverty spec living might just send a few of these lazy f*ckers back to work! Taking away their booze and fags is, sadly, probably the biggest motivation for them to get off their arses.
Nobody can claim that they can't get by and that it's unfair with such a system - it's the same for everybody and they will be given sufficient amounts of each item to get by.
Interested in thoughts/comments? Am I mad? LOL
The Doggers said:
Right, I have been thinking about this a while.
I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Crazy it may sound, but I was thinking that for food, there could be rations and these could be obtained via food vouchers, these could be redeemable to a certain value at the major supermarkets. No cigarettes, no booze, just basic food from various nutitional groups. Some milk and water to be included in that. No juice or pop. No chocolate/sweets.
Clothing - Vouchers to the value of £10 bi-monthly per person to be redeemed at a charity shop like Oxfam, thus the government is paying something towards charity and not putting money to be wasted into the pockets of the scroungers. £10 should be more than enough for a few items of clothing at these shops.
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers including a gas/electric token to a certain value. Can't manage your home's fuel budget? Best get down Oxfam then with your clothing vouchers and get some jumpers eh?!
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants.
The only thing I'm unsure about is how people would get buses to the job centre to search for jobs etc. The best thing I have so far is a vocher/stamp system. 10 bus journeys per week allowed up to a certain distance. Ticket must be stamped by driver on each journey. If you abuse these journeys for personal use, that's up to you. But 10's your limit (obviously up for review if you need 2 buses to reach a job centre etc.).
Yup, it's a sh*t way to live.
And so it f*cking should be when it's free and costing the rest of us! A bit of enforced poverty spec living might just send a few of these lazy f*ckers back to work! Taking away their booze and fags is, sadly, probably the biggest motivation for them to get off their arses.
Nobody can claim that they can't get by and that it's unfair with such a system - it's the same for everybody and they will be given sufficient amounts of each item to get by.
Interested in thoughts/comments? Am I mad? LOL
So you think that after working and paying my way for over 30 years,should I come to be out of work I should have to claim vouchers...? Your plan need a bit more detail I think.....I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Crazy it may sound, but I was thinking that for food, there could be rations and these could be obtained via food vouchers, these could be redeemable to a certain value at the major supermarkets. No cigarettes, no booze, just basic food from various nutitional groups. Some milk and water to be included in that. No juice or pop. No chocolate/sweets.
Clothing - Vouchers to the value of £10 bi-monthly per person to be redeemed at a charity shop like Oxfam, thus the government is paying something towards charity and not putting money to be wasted into the pockets of the scroungers. £10 should be more than enough for a few items of clothing at these shops.
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers including a gas/electric token to a certain value. Can't manage your home's fuel budget? Best get down Oxfam then with your clothing vouchers and get some jumpers eh?!
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants.
The only thing I'm unsure about is how people would get buses to the job centre to search for jobs etc. The best thing I have so far is a vocher/stamp system. 10 bus journeys per week allowed up to a certain distance. Ticket must be stamped by driver on each journey. If you abuse these journeys for personal use, that's up to you. But 10's your limit (obviously up for review if you need 2 buses to reach a job centre etc.).
Yup, it's a sh*t way to live.
And so it f*cking should be when it's free and costing the rest of us! A bit of enforced poverty spec living might just send a few of these lazy f*ckers back to work! Taking away their booze and fags is, sadly, probably the biggest motivation for them to get off their arses.
Nobody can claim that they can't get by and that it's unfair with such a system - it's the same for everybody and they will be given sufficient amounts of each item to get by.
Interested in thoughts/comments? Am I mad? LOL
The Doggers said:
Right, I have been thinking about this a while.
I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Clothing - Vouchers can be exchanged
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers as above
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants. Already Happens
Ban them from owning a car and the public transport system could work. I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Clothing - Vouchers can be exchanged
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers as above
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants. Already Happens
Give them the good they need not the means to choose, make people do voluntary work in the community, picking up litter, washing the cars of the rich, painting old peoples houses etc in return for more than basic goods.
e.g. A dvd player if you mow the lawn of 50 houses etc...
chris_w666 said:
The Doggers said:
Right, I have been thinking about this a while.
I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Clothing - Vouchers can be exchanged
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers as above
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants. Already Happens
Ban them from owning a car and the public transport system could work. I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Clothing - Vouchers can be exchanged
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers as above
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants. Already Happens
Give them the good they need not the means to choose, make people do voluntary work in the community, picking up litter, washing the cars of the rich, painting old peoples houses etc in return for more than basic goods.
e.g. A dvd player if you mow the lawn of 50 houses etc...
Vouchers won't work for the reasons given above. Besides, you'll have people complaining about how it takes away their dignity and 'ooman rites'.
Far better system is work for the dole. Sweep streets, tend parks, help the elderly and get paid. Don't work, no money.
For Waynetta who claims she can't work on account of having five children by seven fathers to look after the solution is simple. The children go into government run playschools (staffed by other Waynettas) while she goes to work sweeping streets, tending parks etc.
Next problem?
Far better system is work for the dole. Sweep streets, tend parks, help the elderly and get paid. Don't work, no money.
For Waynetta who claims she can't work on account of having five children by seven fathers to look after the solution is simple. The children go into government run playschools (staffed by other Waynettas) while she goes to work sweeping streets, tending parks etc.
Next problem?
esselte said:
The Doggers said:
Right, I have been thinking about this a while.
I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Crazy it may sound, but I was thinking that for food, there could be rations and these could be obtained via food vouchers, these could be redeemable to a certain value at the major supermarkets. No cigarettes, no booze, just basic food from various nutitional groups. Some milk and water to be included in that. No juice or pop. No chocolate/sweets.
Clothing - Vouchers to the value of £10 bi-monthly per person to be redeemed at a charity shop like Oxfam, thus the government is paying something towards charity and not putting money to be wasted into the pockets of the scroungers. £10 should be more than enough for a few items of clothing at these shops.
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers including a gas/electric token to a certain value. Can't manage your home's fuel budget? Best get down Oxfam then with your clothing vouchers and get some jumpers eh?!
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants.
The only thing I'm unsure about is how people would get buses to the job centre to search for jobs etc. The best thing I have so far is a vocher/stamp system. 10 bus journeys per week allowed up to a certain distance. Ticket must be stamped by driver on each journey. If you abuse these journeys for personal use, that's up to you. But 10's your limit (obviously up for review if you need 2 buses to reach a job centre etc.).
Yup, it's a sh*t way to live.
And so it f*cking should be when it's free and costing the rest of us! A bit of enforced poverty spec living might just send a few of these lazy f*ckers back to work! Taking away their booze and fags is, sadly, probably the biggest motivation for them to get off their arses.
Nobody can claim that they can't get by and that it's unfair with such a system - it's the same for everybody and they will be given sufficient amounts of each item to get by.
Interested in thoughts/comments? Am I mad? LOL
So you think that after working and paying my way for over 30 years,should I come to be out of work I should have to claim vouchers...? Your plan need a bit more detail I think.....I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Crazy it may sound, but I was thinking that for food, there could be rations and these could be obtained via food vouchers, these could be redeemable to a certain value at the major supermarkets. No cigarettes, no booze, just basic food from various nutitional groups. Some milk and water to be included in that. No juice or pop. No chocolate/sweets.
Clothing - Vouchers to the value of £10 bi-monthly per person to be redeemed at a charity shop like Oxfam, thus the government is paying something towards charity and not putting money to be wasted into the pockets of the scroungers. £10 should be more than enough for a few items of clothing at these shops.
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers including a gas/electric token to a certain value. Can't manage your home's fuel budget? Best get down Oxfam then with your clothing vouchers and get some jumpers eh?!
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants.
The only thing I'm unsure about is how people would get buses to the job centre to search for jobs etc. The best thing I have so far is a vocher/stamp system. 10 bus journeys per week allowed up to a certain distance. Ticket must be stamped by driver on each journey. If you abuse these journeys for personal use, that's up to you. But 10's your limit (obviously up for review if you need 2 buses to reach a job centre etc.).
Yup, it's a sh*t way to live.
And so it f*cking should be when it's free and costing the rest of us! A bit of enforced poverty spec living might just send a few of these lazy f*ckers back to work! Taking away their booze and fags is, sadly, probably the biggest motivation for them to get off their arses.
Nobody can claim that they can't get by and that it's unfair with such a system - it's the same for everybody and they will be given sufficient amounts of each item to get by.
Interested in thoughts/comments? Am I mad? LOL
Something like 5 years continuous employment should entitle you to a period of cash welfare, in response to the contributions you have paid.
Flintstone said:
Vouchers won't work for the reasons given above. Besides, you'll have people complaining about how it takes away their dignity and 'ooman rites'.
Far better system is work for the dole. Sweep streets, tend parks, help the elderly and get paid. Don't work, no money.
For Waynetta who claims she can't work on account of having five children by seven fathers to look after the solution is simple. The children go into government run playschools (staffed by other Waynettas) while she goes to work sweeping streets, tending parks etc.
Next problem?
This is workableFar better system is work for the dole. Sweep streets, tend parks, help the elderly and get paid. Don't work, no money.
For Waynetta who claims she can't work on account of having five children by seven fathers to look after the solution is simple. The children go into government run playschools (staffed by other Waynettas) while she goes to work sweeping streets, tending parks etc.
Next problem?
Flintstone said:
Vouchers won't work for the reasons given above. Besides, you'll have people complaining about how it takes away their dignity and 'ooman rites'.
Far better system is work for the dole. Sweep streets, tend parks, help the elderly and get paid. Don't work, no money.
For Waynetta who claims she can't work on account of having five children by seven fathers to look after the solution is simple. The children go into government run playschools (staffed by other Waynettas) while she goes to work sweeping streets, tending parks etc.
Next problem?
The vouchers can work. Plus, although I don't agree with them, it gives the Govt a good excuse to roll out ID cards. No id? No voucher exchange. Vouchers to be personalised with recipient's name on. Far better system is work for the dole. Sweep streets, tend parks, help the elderly and get paid. Don't work, no money.
For Waynetta who claims she can't work on account of having five children by seven fathers to look after the solution is simple. The children go into government run playschools (staffed by other Waynettas) while she goes to work sweeping streets, tending parks etc.
Next problem?
A better option would be a set list of food, delivered direct with nothing needing to be done by the claimant, but that would cost more money and so I doubt that would ever take off.
The Doggers said:
Right, I have been thinking about this a while.
I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Crazy it may sound, but I was thinking that for food, there could be rations and these could be obtained via food vouchers, these could be redeemable to a certain value at the major supermarkets. No cigarettes, no booze, just basic food from various nutitional groups. Some milk and water to be included in that. No juice or pop. No chocolate/sweets.
Clothing - Vouchers to the value of £10 bi-monthly per person to be redeemed at a charity shop like Oxfam, thus the government is paying something towards charity and not putting money to be wasted into the pockets of the scroungers. £10 should be more than enough for a few items of clothing at these shops.
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers including a gas/electric token to a certain value. Can't manage your home's fuel budget? Best get down Oxfam then with your clothing vouchers and get some jumpers eh?!
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants.
The only thing I'm unsure about is how people would get buses to the job centre to search for jobs etc. The best thing I have so far is a vocher/stamp system. 10 bus journeys per week allowed up to a certain distance. Ticket must be stamped by driver on each journey. If you abuse these journeys for personal use, that's up to you. But 10's your limit (obviously up for review if you need 2 buses to reach a job centre etc.).
Yup, it's a sh*t way to live.
And so it f*cking should be when it's free and costing the rest of us! A bit of enforced poverty spec living might just send a few of these lazy f*ckers back to work! Taking away their booze and fags is, sadly, probably the biggest motivation for them to get off their arses.
Nobody can claim that they can't get by and that it's unfair with such a system - it's the same for everybody and they will be given sufficient amounts of each item to get by.
Interested in thoughts/comments? Am I mad? LOL
Apart from the voucher issue already discussed, there is a problem with the approach; or rather is not a complete solution. I was thinking, why can we not have a cashless welfare system???
Crazy it may sound, but I was thinking that for food, there could be rations and these could be obtained via food vouchers, these could be redeemable to a certain value at the major supermarkets. No cigarettes, no booze, just basic food from various nutitional groups. Some milk and water to be included in that. No juice or pop. No chocolate/sweets.
Clothing - Vouchers to the value of £10 bi-monthly per person to be redeemed at a charity shop like Oxfam, thus the government is paying something towards charity and not putting money to be wasted into the pockets of the scroungers. £10 should be more than enough for a few items of clothing at these shops.
Electricity/Gas - to be done on a token meter basis, with the dole vouchers including a gas/electric token to a certain value. Can't manage your home's fuel budget? Best get down Oxfam then with your clothing vouchers and get some jumpers eh?!
Rent - direct from government to council/landlord. No money paid out to tennants.
The only thing I'm unsure about is how people would get buses to the job centre to search for jobs etc. The best thing I have so far is a vocher/stamp system. 10 bus journeys per week allowed up to a certain distance. Ticket must be stamped by driver on each journey. If you abuse these journeys for personal use, that's up to you. But 10's your limit (obviously up for review if you need 2 buses to reach a job centre etc.).
Yup, it's a sh*t way to live.
And so it f*cking should be when it's free and costing the rest of us! A bit of enforced poverty spec living might just send a few of these lazy f*ckers back to work! Taking away their booze and fags is, sadly, probably the biggest motivation for them to get off their arses.
Nobody can claim that they can't get by and that it's unfair with such a system - it's the same for everybody and they will be given sufficient amounts of each item to get by.
Interested in thoughts/comments? Am I mad? LOL
People often see the welfare system purely as 'the dole'/ 'jobseekers allowance', when in fact it is much more than that, with a wide range of other benefits.
There are an awful lot of benefits that are not designed to be spent in stores, but rather at the recipients discretion on services, while others are in effect a form of compensation for the state not providing services. Benefits like DLA, especially the mobility component are meant to be spent on taxis, electric scooters, or even petrol for those who have reduced mobility. Things like carers allowance or attendance allowance are again discretionary and is meant to be in leiu of the state paying for carers. I understand that you think that by replacing the available cash, there will be less incentive for fraud, but it just won't work. The few benefit provisions that require people to send it receipts are woefully clogged up as it is. Expansion would be horribly expensive as the 'grunts' don't have the decision making authority or the required training, and each application has to decided on a case by case basis.
The store/vouchers system would probably be best reserved for on job seekers allowance who have been found to be untrustworthy or squandered their benefits in some way; prehaps those who have been on the dole for more than 12 months, or not atended an interview for a certain amount of time. Also, two tiers of JSA would help., with one being for those who can support themselves and merely needed to complete the formality requirements, providing assistance with services but no ready cash, and a lower tier to replace 'the dole' but with far more stringent tests. This would be what the OP proposes. It is the way we need to go, but lets not tar everyone with the same brush; just tar the scum!
This higher tier are currently a neglected group. They are you somewhat skilled taxpayer, often coming from a declining industry who want to work again. Many avoid signing on, and therefore the retraining, help with child support etc that would benefit them because of the stigma of being on the dole, and also because they don't NEED the money.
Anyway some rambling thoughts from someone with an inside view of the (un)civil service.
Edited by bobthemonkey on Friday 10th October 15:43
Have two benefits as follows:
1) a fixed ammount that everyone gets.
This replaces jobseekers, the state pension, student grants, carers allowance, housing benefit, child benefit, maternity pay and family credit. Employers will no longer have anything to do with benefits (pension and maternity for example). This will save red tape, reduce business costs and promote gender equality (which the current system effectively punishes via maternity laws). Everyone over 18 and in the uk legally for over 3 years gets this. Everyone gets something. No one gets more by making their situation worse.
2) variable benefits.
These will be paid out depending on need and contributions. If you've paid nothing in you get nothing back. But if you have paid a lot in for a long time and find yourself needy then you will have a generous safety net. This replaces sickness and disability payments, jury service payments (i.e. proportional to what you pay in tax), plus top ups to the benefits in (1). So the more you pay in the more you get back.
1) a fixed ammount that everyone gets.
This replaces jobseekers, the state pension, student grants, carers allowance, housing benefit, child benefit, maternity pay and family credit. Employers will no longer have anything to do with benefits (pension and maternity for example). This will save red tape, reduce business costs and promote gender equality (which the current system effectively punishes via maternity laws). Everyone over 18 and in the uk legally for over 3 years gets this. Everyone gets something. No one gets more by making their situation worse.
2) variable benefits.
These will be paid out depending on need and contributions. If you've paid nothing in you get nothing back. But if you have paid a lot in for a long time and find yourself needy then you will have a generous safety net. This replaces sickness and disability payments, jury service payments (i.e. proportional to what you pay in tax), plus top ups to the benefits in (1). So the more you pay in the more you get back.
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