Is it right to use the term 'honour killings'...?
Discussion
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20081022/tuk-police-dis...
A few years back (late 80's ?) I seem to recall the term 'Joyriders' and 'Joyriding' was removed from common parlance as this was giving respectability and a sense of 'fun' to what was simply four lads in an RS Turbo leading the police on a dangerous chase through an estate and burning outsomeones P&J.
Thereby calling a thief a thief.
I think the police/government were directly responsible for this shift in attitudes, too.
Should we therefore stop referring to the above mentioned atrocities as 'honour crimes', for similar reasons...(as, in a developed society, there is no 'honour' whatsoever in murdering a female relative) ?
How should it be termed then, and should these crimes receive a particularly heavy sentence, or should the perpetrator be counselled, perhaps by thier 'community leaders' ?
A few years back (late 80's ?) I seem to recall the term 'Joyriders' and 'Joyriding' was removed from common parlance as this was giving respectability and a sense of 'fun' to what was simply four lads in an RS Turbo leading the police on a dangerous chase through an estate and burning outsomeones P&J.
Thereby calling a thief a thief.
I think the police/government were directly responsible for this shift in attitudes, too.
Should we therefore stop referring to the above mentioned atrocities as 'honour crimes', for similar reasons...(as, in a developed society, there is no 'honour' whatsoever in murdering a female relative) ?
How should it be termed then, and should these crimes receive a particularly heavy sentence, or should the perpetrator be counselled, perhaps by thier 'community leaders' ?
)odyssey2200 said:
paoloh said:
Mark V8 said:
paoloh said:
MURDER
We should'nt differentiate, then ?plain and simple MURDER
motive might be pride, jelousy, self image but MURDER none the less!
Matt
matmoxon said:
odyssey2200 said:
paoloh said:
Mark V8 said:
paoloh said:
MURDER
We should'nt differentiate, then ?plain and simple MURDER
motive might be pride, jelousy, self image but MURDER none the less!
Matt
kwitspaoloh said:
matmoxon said:
odyssey2200 said:
paoloh said:
Mark V8 said:
paoloh said:
MURDER
We should'nt differentiate, then ?plain and simple MURDER
motive might be pride, jelousy, self image but MURDER none the less!
Matt
kwits"Muslim girl stabbed in street" Page 2 less than half a column.
"HONOUR KILLING!!!!! BARABARIC PRACTISE BY IMMIGRANT SAVAGES!!!! VICTIMS FAMILY ARRESTED!!!!!!" All across the front page.
Yes, it is right to use the term. it lets us understand the motives.
The motive of a crime is usually the thing that tells us who committed the crime and why the crime was committed.
The term 'honour' in this case doesnt bring honour to the person committing it. They dont gain honour, and it doesnt justify the crime. It doesnt exonerate in any way what has occurred. It does however let us understand the motive for the crime and therefore enables us to focus on who and why, so that person can be brought to justice.
Changing the name for how this crime is described will have nothing to do with stopping the crime being committed. honour killings have occurred in many cultures for thousands of years. Changing how its described will not stop it happening.
Kids still joy ride after all. Call it what you like, its still the most prevelant crime in our society and most car crime is committed by people between the ages of 17 and 25. Therefore, you can deduce they arent masterminds that have a business breaking and selling stolen cars, they do it for kicks, for fun, for 'joy'.
'Honour' killings happen world wide, and mostly go un reported. A releative of mine that worked for many years in the health and care system of a certain large muslim country for instance would tell you of the nightmare scenarios they are faced with daily of honour killings and family murder. Stuff you just dont hear reported. Daughters for instance taken into the desert and sliced to spill their intestines and left to die in the sun.
The term honour in this case really doesnt describe the crime in the same terms as joy riding. Why do kids 'joy ride'? Because its fun and relives bordom. Why do honour killings occur? Not to bring or gain honour, thats for sure. Its pure revenge for the percieved shame of the person carrying out the crime. This is what needs addresing, but i fear its impossible.
The issue is far more fundamental than the word that describes it.
The motive of a crime is usually the thing that tells us who committed the crime and why the crime was committed.
The term 'honour' in this case doesnt bring honour to the person committing it. They dont gain honour, and it doesnt justify the crime. It doesnt exonerate in any way what has occurred. It does however let us understand the motive for the crime and therefore enables us to focus on who and why, so that person can be brought to justice.
Changing the name for how this crime is described will have nothing to do with stopping the crime being committed. honour killings have occurred in many cultures for thousands of years. Changing how its described will not stop it happening.
Kids still joy ride after all. Call it what you like, its still the most prevelant crime in our society and most car crime is committed by people between the ages of 17 and 25. Therefore, you can deduce they arent masterminds that have a business breaking and selling stolen cars, they do it for kicks, for fun, for 'joy'.
'Honour' killings happen world wide, and mostly go un reported. A releative of mine that worked for many years in the health and care system of a certain large muslim country for instance would tell you of the nightmare scenarios they are faced with daily of honour killings and family murder. Stuff you just dont hear reported. Daughters for instance taken into the desert and sliced to spill their intestines and left to die in the sun.
The term honour in this case really doesnt describe the crime in the same terms as joy riding. Why do kids 'joy ride'? Because its fun and relives bordom. Why do honour killings occur? Not to bring or gain honour, thats for sure. Its pure revenge for the percieved shame of the person carrying out the crime. This is what needs addresing, but i fear its impossible.
The issue is far more fundamental than the word that describes it.
Edited by Tony*T3 on Wednesday 22 October 10:40
Mark V8 said:
paoloh said:
MURDER
We should'nt differentiate, then ?Didn't like his face killings
I was being a naughty boy that day killings
Spilled my pint killings (OK, that could be lumped with honour)
Was banging my lass killings
Pub brawl killings
Mugging gone wrong killings
Looked a bit foreign killings
Eddie Izzard voice: "Murder! The possibilities are endless!"
crofty1984 said:
Mark V8 said:
paoloh said:
MURDER
We should'nt differentiate, then ?Didn't like his face killings
I was being a naughty boy that day killings
Spilled my pint killings (OK, that could be lumped with honour)
Was banging my lass killings
Pub brawl killings
Mugging gone wrong killings
Looked a bit foreign killings
Eddie Izzard voice: "Murder! The possibilities are endless!"
Tony*T3 said:
Indeed, most western murders are a form of 'honour' crime, but the victim is usually a stranger to the person committing it, not a relative. Only psyhco serial murders tend to murder for the sheer 'fun' of it, nearly everyone else has some .
Thats not true is it? I thoguht the vast majority of murderers were well known to the victim.scotal said:
Tony*T3 said:
Indeed, most western murders are a form of 'honour' crime, but the victim is usually a stranger to the person committing it, not a relative. Only psyhco serial murders tend to murder for the sheer 'fun' of it, nearly everyone else has some .
Thats not true is it? I thoguht the vast majority of murderers were well known to the victim.Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff