How to lay engineered wood floor with UFH?

[satans worm]

Hi
Looking to lay some engineered walnut flooring on a cement screed that contains water UFH system.
I was under the impression you had to glue the wood floor directly to the cement screed, however I have just gone to order the wood and they have stated I should float the floor with this as an underlay http://www.completelyflooring.co.uk/heatflow-wood-...
They think that the glue will be tacky if heated via UFH hence it should not be stuck directly to the floor?

Do we have any experienced fitters here to comment please?

Edited by satans worm on Monday 8th December 12:00

[anonymous-user]

I've had engineered wood floor before and never had it glued. Should work great with UFH!

[Badgerboy]

I had mine glued down to a very thin form of chipboard.

[pits]

i do a lot of work with flooring, and i mean alot but why do people insist on trying to spruce up laminate flooring by calling it "engineered wood" its basically just a laminate with a wooded texture added to it. shouldnt have to glue it, you can if it needs to, depends what your working with, although as a substitute may i recomend karndean picasso flooring, heavy duty industrial flooring, looks the same as wood, feels like wood, but only 18 quid sqm, will last longer aswell. however dont get conned into getting any other karndean stuff, its really good flooring but there antique range starts at £115 a sqm to buy, and thats what i buy it in for

[Driller]

"Engineered wood flooring"?

Who the hell came up with that then?

[satans worm]

pits said:

i do a lot of work with flooring, and i mean alot but why do people insist on trying to spruce up laminate flooring by calling it "engineered wood" its basically just a laminate with a wooded texture added to it. shouldnt have to glue it, you can if it needs to, depends what your working with, although as a substitute may i recomend karndean picasso flooring, heavy duty industrial flooring, looks the same as wood, feels like wood, but only 18 quid sqm, will last longer aswell. however dont get conned into getting any other karndean stuff, its really good flooring but there antique range starts at £115 a sqm to buy, and thats what i buy it in for

Engineered wood flooring is real wood not a laminate, it is typicaly a 6 mill real wood veneer with a ply under it to enable it to be more stable than solid wood, which is needed due to the moisture problem of UFH which can cause warping, Engineered wood is alot more stable than solid and around the same price.

[JBL930]

Agree with the above, laminate "wood effect" flooring is crap. Solid wood flooring is great but you always have the worry on how it will behave, shrink, swell etc. The best thing to lay is real engineered flooring, ideally unsorted lengths and a good board width, looks the nuts and will never move.

[JBL930]

This type of engineered floor can be sanded and re-treated dozens of times, it will never move either, it's far far superior to solid wood

[satans worm]

JBL930 said:

This type of engineered floor can be sanded and re-treated dozens of times, it will never move either, it's far far superior to solid wood

But does anyone know how it should be fitted???

[SLCZ3]

I had similar stuff laid down 4 years ago, it is very good.
First allow the pieces for the room you are having done acclimatise to the room temperature for several days, then lay a thermal underlay (the best you can afford)or the the flooring will just transfer the solid floor temperature, then lay it down as you would any other type of keyed flooring.
Jobs a good un.

[CedGTV]

satans worm said:

JBL930 said:

This type of engineered floor can be sanded and re-treated dozens of times, it will never move either, it's far far superior to solid wood

But does anyone know how it should be fitted???

Secretly porter nailed through the lip i.e. at 45 degrees through the lip into the substraite.

[JBL930]

Yes mate, lay the underlay, the stuff in the link from the OP is fine http://www.completelyflooring.co.uk/heatflow-wood-...
Glue the tongue and grooves, remember to glue the ends as well as the sides, it's a good idea to have a damp cloth to wipe off any excess glue and keep rinsing the cloth out otherwise you are just rubbing watered down glue everywhere. Be sure to leave a gap around the edge of the flooring to allow for any movement, i would say 10mm minimum, make sure your skirting board covers the gap though.
That's it basically, a bit of common sense is needed obviously. As i mentioned earlier you should purchase to good stuff, unsorted lengths (random lengths) and think about how you are laying them to get a good random pattern, work from left to right on the floor (like reading a book) and use the off-cut from the last board to start the new one so you don't have any waste.
Another good tip is to have a small piece of the flooring to use as an aide for knocking the flooring together, the last thing you want is to damage the edge of the boards.

[JBL930]

CedGTV said:

Secretly porter nailed through the lip i.e. at 45 degrees through the lip into the substraite.

You only do this when laying it on joists or thick ply, this floor is going on screed, screed with underfloor heating too so you don't want to put any fixings into it

[satans worm]

JBL930 said:

Yes mate, lay the underlay, the stuff in the link from the OP is fine http://www.completelyflooring.co.uk/heatflow-wood-...
Glue the tongue and grooves, remember to glue the ends as well as the sides, it's a good idea to have a damp cloth to wipe off any excess glue and keep rinsing the cloth out otherwise you are just rubbing watered down glue everywhere. Be sure to leave a gap around the edge of the flooring to allow for any movement, i would say 10mm minimum, make sure your skirting board covers the gap though.
That's it basically, a bit of common sense is needed obviously. As i mentioned earlier you should purchase to good stuff, unsorted lengths (random lengths) and think about how you are laying them to get a good random pattern, work from left to right on the floor (like reading a book) and use the off-cut from the last board to start the new one so you don't have any waste.
Another good tip is to have a small piece of the flooring to use as an aide for knocking the flooring together, the last thing you want is to damage the edge of the boards.

Thanks for the above, I was always under the impression you had to glue the wood floor to the concrete base to ensure the heart trasfers without any air pockets between the 2?
I would much prefer to float it as its much less messy and quicker than glueing down.

[Simpo Two]

CedGTV said:

Secretly porter nailed through the lip i.e. at 45 degrees through the lip into the UFH

EFA

[pc.iow]

If you have not got the wood yet,try this
http://www.kahrs.com/uk/consumer/Pages/start.aspx
It 'snaps' together and is garenteed with UF heating and is a good price.
If you want the real thing,try this
http://www.junckershardwood.com/
It comes with metal clips to hold it all together.

Other than that,glue it down with this
http://www.sourcewoodfloors.co.uk/shop/sikabond-ad...

[CedGTV]

JBL930 said:

CedGTV said:

Secretly porter nailed through the lip i.e. at 45 degrees through the lip into the substraite.

You only do this when laying it on joists or thick ply, this floor is going on screed, screed with underfloor heating too so you don't want to put any fixings into it

Guilty as charged for not reading the OP's post completely.

Agree with the nailing through into screed and possible wet UFH is a no-no

[Horse_Apple]

satans worm said:

JBL930 said:

This type of engineered floor can be sanded and re-treated dozens of times, it will never move either, it's far far superior to solid wood

But does anyone know how it should be fitted???

Pretty side up?

[john2443]

I'm going to fit this stuff in the (2nd floor) bathroom - I'm assuming it's OK as it's the leftovers from a friends bathroom.

2 questions - The current floor is fairly new and flat chipboard, do I need to put anything between the old floor and the laminate? (Thin foamy stuff?)

and, as it'll be butted up against the shower tray and siliconed what do I do about expansion gap? The other end will be under the skirting, so could have expansion space but then it can pull away from the tray.
Is secret nailing at the shower end the answer?

Thanks

[JBL930]

john2443 said:

I'm going to fit this stuff in the (2nd floor) bathroom - I'm assuming it's OK as it's the leftovers from a friends bathroom.

2 questions - The current floor is fairly new and flat chipboard, do I need to put anything between the old floor and the laminate? (Thin foamy stuff?)

and, as it'll be butted up against the shower tray and siliconed what do I do about expansion gap? The other end will be under the skirting, so could have expansion space but then it can pull away from the tray.
Is secret nailing at the shower end the answer?

Thanks

If it's the standard tongue and groove do it the same way i explained above, use an underlay and glue the joints. You could just glue it down to the chipboard but if you ever have a leak in your bathroom under the floor it would be a major pain in the arse to get the floor up. The expansion gap is more for movement in the building to be honest, the engineered floor won't budge, if the flooring isn't pre-finished (sealed and polished or oiled etc) then don't put the silicone on first as it will seal the wood and it will look crap when you come to put the finish on it. Leave an expansion gap under the skirting though.
The best stuff to use in a bathroom would be the clip together stuff, no glue, this would come up easy if you had to get under there, use an underlay otherwise it will be noisy

Edited by JBL930 on Monday 8th December 15:45