EXCEEDINGLY p155ed off with council - what to do?
Discussion
Chaps,
This is not a rant. It will fail the PH rant criteria as it will be coherent, rational, and include no swearing. So please no "2/10 - Rubbish Rant" replies - thanks.
My anger concerns my local council. 14 days ago I called up to order some temporary parking permits - visitors tickets, valid for one day. Book of 10 costs £10, and they take 10 days to arrive.
Come today, no permits. I call council, who tell me that they have taken the money (I checked with the bank - they have) but they have sent out no permits. They put their hands up to the problem, and suggest that either I go to their local 'Parking Shop' tomorrow to get some permits, or I wait 10 days for the ones I ordered to arrive.
Neither option viable - I need to leave two cars on the street tomorrow, and I am going out for the day.
Me: Can you courier some permits over, or someone drops them off tomorrow morning?
Them: No, can't do that.
Me: OK, how about I tell you the VRM's of the two cars that will be here and you ensure they don't get tickets?
Them: No, can't do that.
Me: OK then, what can you do?
Them:Well sir, you can come to our 'Parking Shop' tomorrow and collect some permits, or we can post some to you in 10 days time.
Me: No, I have explained, neither of those are viable. Please don't keep on offering me things which are not suitable.
Them: We admit we have made a mistake and would like to help you out sir, those are the two options we can offer to help you out.
So, what do I do? I will, in all probability come home tomorrow to find £120 of parking fine on the windscreens of two cars (thankfully they don't tow them away around here.) Because of a mistake on behalf of the council. Yes, I can appeal the tickets (as the nice chap on the telephone suggested) but this is not a certain process, and will be very time consuming.
They have made a mistake, they admit it, but they are unwilling to do anything suitable to resolve it.
I have already made three formal complaints to the council this year (1. Recycling not collected repeatedly, 2. Recycling 'officer' swore at me and outright lied when I challenged him about not collecting recycling, 3. Damage to my car by their contractors - leading to a court case, which I think I have won - see here). To say they are incompetent is understating it somewhat.
In all seriousness, is there anything that I can reasonably do? I have spoken with my local councillor several times (I know him - he lives up the road) and while he is kind he simply directs me to the council complaints team (again).
Is it worth writing to the chief exec? Is it worth trying to get some time wiht someone senior to whom I can make my general dissatisfaction known? Or do I just accept that the service is dire, and I need to carry on paying for it?
Serious * suggestions welcomed. If I hear nothing, I'll assume that there is nothing at all that can be done.
Thanks.
Oli.
This is not a rant. It will fail the PH rant criteria as it will be coherent, rational, and include no swearing. So please no "2/10 - Rubbish Rant" replies - thanks.
My anger concerns my local council. 14 days ago I called up to order some temporary parking permits - visitors tickets, valid for one day. Book of 10 costs £10, and they take 10 days to arrive.
Come today, no permits. I call council, who tell me that they have taken the money (I checked with the bank - they have) but they have sent out no permits. They put their hands up to the problem, and suggest that either I go to their local 'Parking Shop' tomorrow to get some permits, or I wait 10 days for the ones I ordered to arrive.
Neither option viable - I need to leave two cars on the street tomorrow, and I am going out for the day.
Me: Can you courier some permits over, or someone drops them off tomorrow morning?
Them: No, can't do that.
Me: OK, how about I tell you the VRM's of the two cars that will be here and you ensure they don't get tickets?
Them: No, can't do that.
Me: OK then, what can you do?
Them:Well sir, you can come to our 'Parking Shop' tomorrow and collect some permits, or we can post some to you in 10 days time.
Me: No, I have explained, neither of those are viable. Please don't keep on offering me things which are not suitable.
Them: We admit we have made a mistake and would like to help you out sir, those are the two options we can offer to help you out.
So, what do I do? I will, in all probability come home tomorrow to find £120 of parking fine on the windscreens of two cars (thankfully they don't tow them away around here.) Because of a mistake on behalf of the council. Yes, I can appeal the tickets (as the nice chap on the telephone suggested) but this is not a certain process, and will be very time consuming.
They have made a mistake, they admit it, but they are unwilling to do anything suitable to resolve it.
I have already made three formal complaints to the council this year (1. Recycling not collected repeatedly, 2. Recycling 'officer' swore at me and outright lied when I challenged him about not collecting recycling, 3. Damage to my car by their contractors - leading to a court case, which I think I have won - see here). To say they are incompetent is understating it somewhat.
In all seriousness, is there anything that I can reasonably do? I have spoken with my local councillor several times (I know him - he lives up the road) and while he is kind he simply directs me to the council complaints team (again).
Is it worth writing to the chief exec? Is it worth trying to get some time wiht someone senior to whom I can make my general dissatisfaction known? Or do I just accept that the service is dire, and I need to carry on paying for it?
Serious * suggestions welcomed. If I hear nothing, I'll assume that there is nothing at all that can be done.
Thanks.
Oli.
* - Yes, serious. Nukings from orbit, takings off from conveyor belts, chippings of 335d's, takings up the oxo tower and kickings in of back doors etc all funny but not what I am looking for.
zcacogp said:
* - Yes, serious. Nukings from orbit, takings off from conveyor belts, chippings of 335d's, takings up the oxo tower and kickings in of back doors etc all funny but not what I am looking for.
This is the Internet. You're not in charge. And you get what you're given when it comes to replies.Maybe the Council deliberately do these things to you because you have an attitude problem?
Bit harsh V8mate, but I take your point. Maybe the post would have been softened with a smiley or two. So 
- there you go. There's one.
If having an attitude problem means "I am pissed off with repeated poor service repeatedly from you and your organisation, and I am not going to waste any more of my time solving problems of your making" then yes, I guess I do have an attitude problem.
Thinfourth2 - good idea! Snag is the councillor in question doesn't own a car ... like the way you're thinking tho'!
Oli.
- there you go. There's one.If having an attitude problem means "I am pissed off with repeated poor service repeatedly from you and your organisation, and I am not going to waste any more of my time solving problems of your making" then yes, I guess I do have an attitude problem.
Thinfourth2 - good idea! Snag is the councillor in question doesn't own a car ... like the way you're thinking tho'!
Oli.
Park the cars where you need to leave them and if you come back to a ticket I would suggest that your first call should be to your local press who love these sort of stories and may well resolve the whole issue for you.
Plus if the council have an email address, make sure that you email them tonight with the problem saying that if you get a ticket you would like the details by 9:30am Monday morning whom you should speak to, to get it cancelled.
Plus if the council have an email address, make sure that you email them tonight with the problem saying that if you get a ticket you would like the details by 9:30am Monday morning whom you should speak to, to get it cancelled.
Blue Cat,
Good idea, but the local paper is published by the local council! Yes .. so they can proclaim far and wide what a wonderful job they are doing.
As it is, I think we'll be able to borrow some from a neighbour (as Rico suggests). Thankfully the neighbours are significantly more helpful than the council.
I guess the overarching question still stands - why can the council offer such abysmal service, and why is it down to the people who pay to provide the service to put in the extra effort to sort it out?
What can be done in terms of making a real difference?
Oli.
Good idea, but the local paper is published by the local council! Yes .. so they can proclaim far and wide what a wonderful job they are doing.
As it is, I think we'll be able to borrow some from a neighbour (as Rico suggests). Thankfully the neighbours are significantly more helpful than the council.
I guess the overarching question still stands - why can the council offer such abysmal service, and why is it down to the people who pay to provide the service to put in the extra effort to sort it out?
What can be done in terms of making a real difference?
Oli.
GreenV8S said:
Well it's a bit late now but how about if *you* send a courier round to collect them?
Had it been earlier then yes, I would have done this. As it is I got home having spent the week out of the house, expecting to find the permits here. It is now too late to either go and get them from the parking shop (now closed), or get a courier. Also, please note my question above - why should I be spending money on a courier to sort out a problem of their making?
Oli.
OP - did you get the name of the person you spoke to, the one who said you can appeal your fines? I suggest you ring them back, and anytime you speak to someone ask for their FULL name. They have to give it to you, and gives you more 'evidence' if you need to escalate your complaint.
If I were you, I would ring in tomorrow morning, insist on speaking to the manager of that dept & register a complaint. It won't help you immediately, but I suggest you point out that you will appeal any parking fines citing their mistake/incompetence and with the evidence showing you paid for permits in good time and they admitted their mistake.
If traffic wardens come, you will get a fine. The depts won't communicate & excuse your cars, so you will need an appeal case.
I work for a Council, and 99% of the employees are a shower of useless, b
k scratching sts, so I sympathise.
In this instance I think all you can do is submit a formal complaint, & refuse to pay the fines on the grounds cited in your complaint. Annoying waste of time? Yes
But then I could write you a 20 page essay on why Councils are so ineffectual & a waste of time/money 
Edit: Just seen your update about neighbours permit.
If I were you, I would ring in tomorrow morning, insist on speaking to the manager of that dept & register a complaint. It won't help you immediately, but I suggest you point out that you will appeal any parking fines citing their mistake/incompetence and with the evidence showing you paid for permits in good time and they admitted their mistake.
If traffic wardens come, you will get a fine. The depts won't communicate & excuse your cars, so you will need an appeal case.
I work for a Council, and 99% of the employees are a shower of useless, b
k scratching sts, so I sympathise. In this instance I think all you can do is submit a formal complaint, & refuse to pay the fines on the grounds cited in your complaint. Annoying waste of time? Yes
But then I could write you a 20 page essay on why Councils are so ineffectual & a waste of time/money Edit: Just seen your update about neighbours permit.
zcacogp said:
I guess the overarching question still stands - why can the council offer such abysmal service, and why is it down to the people who pay to provide the service to put in the extra effort to sort it out?
What can be done in terms of making a real difference?
Oli.
As above - 20 page essay on why they are useless! Make a difference? Sack the lot & start again (my good self excluded of course) What can be done in terms of making a real difference?
Oli.
Edited by FastLaneGirl on Friday 19th December 18:54
zcacogp said:
Also, please note my question above - why should I be spending money on a courier to sort out a problem of their making?
Yes it's a sod, but at the end of the day you're the one with the problem not them so it is YOUR problem. So you need to organise the solution. From the sound of it the only problem is physically getting the tickets from their offices to your cars. And that doesn't sound like an insurmountable problem since you're in the same town. The only tricky part is that it's Friday evening now. Are their offices open on Saturday?
Welcome to the world of the 'Public Sector Employee'
The worse they are the higher up they are promoted, ive worked with Government agencys and local councils - they are the most useless people in our society, people with 'issues' that cannot work under pressure in the profit making Private sectors.
Makes all this Tax we pay seem worthwhile eh.
Shame that we have not even paid for there pensions yet - something Brown keeps quiet about.
Anyways - i suggest you try the formal form of complaint and kick up a bit of a stink. Wouldnt hold your breath though 'the computer will probably say NO'
I feel your frustration.
The worse they are the higher up they are promoted, ive worked with Government agencys and local councils - they are the most useless people in our society, people with 'issues' that cannot work under pressure in the profit making Private sectors.
Makes all this Tax we pay seem worthwhile eh.
Shame that we have not even paid for there pensions yet - something Brown keeps quiet about.
Anyways - i suggest you try the formal form of complaint and kick up a bit of a stink. Wouldnt hold your breath though 'the computer will probably say NO'
I feel your frustration.
Edited by Scrotum on Friday 19th December 19:21
Er...unless there is the chance that the cars get clamped/towed simply park as you would normally then if you do get ticketed, appeal the tickets. It will be fine, you have the record of the transaction, their admission of error, the whole thing. Appealing parking tickets is successful if you are correct.
To be fair to the council (for once...bear with me)
1) Its christmas. They cannot guarantee when the post will arrive. And the cost of couring every single permit (why just you?) would be huge- and you dont want to pay any more council tax).
Parking forms will be a huigh logistical effort on their part, and they have to do it as cheaply as possible.
2) They have made a sensible offer that you can come and collect it. I know that you said you cannot, but their offer was there. They have not said "tough", they have offered a reasonable solution. Its unfortunate that its not the solution you want, but is there anyone there to collect them on your behalf?
They seem to be doing their best on a limited budget, and I dont think they have been unreasonable. Sorry...
1) Its christmas. They cannot guarantee when the post will arrive. And the cost of couring every single permit (why just you?) would be huge- and you dont want to pay any more council tax).
Parking forms will be a huigh logistical effort on their part, and they have to do it as cheaply as possible.
2) They have made a sensible offer that you can come and collect it. I know that you said you cannot, but their offer was there. They have not said "tough", they have offered a reasonable solution. Its unfortunate that its not the solution you want, but is there anyone there to collect them on your behalf?
They seem to be doing their best on a limited budget, and I dont think they have been unreasonable. Sorry...
Scrotum said:
Welcome to the world of the 'Public Sector Employee'
The worse they are the higher up they are promoted, ive worked with Government agencys and local councils - they are the most useless people in our society, people with 'issues' that cannot work under pressure in the profit making Private sectors.
Makes all this Tax we pay seem worthwhile eh.
Shame that we have not even paid for there pensions yet - something Brown keeps quiet about.
Anyways - i suggest you try the formal form of complaint and kick up a bit of a stink. Wouldnt hold your breath though 'the computer will probably say NO'
I feel your frustration.
Love these rants. Can someone tell me what a non-local council is?The worse they are the higher up they are promoted, ive worked with Government agencys and local councils - they are the most useless people in our society, people with 'issues' that cannot work under pressure in the profit making Private sectors.
Makes all this Tax we pay seem worthwhile eh.
Shame that we have not even paid for there pensions yet - something Brown keeps quiet about.
Anyways - i suggest you try the formal form of complaint and kick up a bit of a stink. Wouldnt hold your breath though 'the computer will probably say NO'
I feel your frustration.
Edited by Scrotum on Friday 19th December 19:21
GreenV8s - you have the nail on the head. Spot on, sir. It IS my problem, but it SHOULDN'T be my problem. Their incompetence has made a problem for me, which shouldn't have happened. I can forgive mistakes, what I can't forgive is repeated mistakes and then unwillingness to sort the problem that they have created out - effectively making it my problem.
Williamp, good call but I don't consider their expectation that I will spend further time sorting out what should be their problem to be reasonable. As it is, I won't be able to visit their parking shop to pick up a ticket (and even if I could, I would deeply resent spending an hour of my Saturday morning doing what should be their work for them. I sell my time by the hour - I am self-employed; why should they get my time for free?
Oh, and it's not a matter of slow post. They simply haven't posted the tickets which I paid for. Had I not chased them, I suspect that they would never have bothered to contact me and I would have heard nothing more of it. The problem is entirely of their making.
I WILL grant that I could have tried to sort it out before 5.00pm on the Friday, but that happens to be the time that I have come back to the house having spent all week elsewhere. Such is life. (ETA: Williamp - this sounds harsh on you; it's not intended to be.)
DrTre - that's pretty much what it would come to. Snag is that appeals take time and cost money. And again, why should I spend time and money solving problems which are of their making? (Put it another way, if I don't pay my council tax, they charge me administration fees for them to chase me. Would they pay my administration fee - at the same rate - for me to appeal a wrongly-issued parking ticket? No I didn't think so either.)
Scrotum - ding! Thanks for sharing my pain, my friend.
FastLaneGirl - that's a genuinely helpful post, thanks. Good to know that a council employee somewhere has a grasp of logic. Thanks for posting. I think I'll repeat my earlier post in that again it is their incompetence that has caused a problem for me, therefore I am not inclined to be gracious about this. Yes, I do have names, dates and time that I talked to people (one thing I have learned.) Calling tomorrow won't help as it is Saturday, and I am SURE they won't be working. I'd be interested in that 20-page essay, but fear that it would make my blood boil more than it currently is. Thanks again tho'. Sack 'em all would be my vote as well!
Oli.
Williamp, good call but I don't consider their expectation that I will spend further time sorting out what should be their problem to be reasonable. As it is, I won't be able to visit their parking shop to pick up a ticket (and even if I could, I would deeply resent spending an hour of my Saturday morning doing what should be their work for them. I sell my time by the hour - I am self-employed; why should they get my time for free?
Oh, and it's not a matter of slow post. They simply haven't posted the tickets which I paid for. Had I not chased them, I suspect that they would never have bothered to contact me and I would have heard nothing more of it. The problem is entirely of their making.
I WILL grant that I could have tried to sort it out before 5.00pm on the Friday, but that happens to be the time that I have come back to the house having spent all week elsewhere. Such is life. (ETA: Williamp - this sounds harsh on you; it's not intended to be.)
DrTre - that's pretty much what it would come to. Snag is that appeals take time and cost money. And again, why should I spend time and money solving problems which are of their making? (Put it another way, if I don't pay my council tax, they charge me administration fees for them to chase me. Would they pay my administration fee - at the same rate - for me to appeal a wrongly-issued parking ticket? No I didn't think so either.)
Scrotum - ding! Thanks for sharing my pain, my friend.
FastLaneGirl - that's a genuinely helpful post, thanks. Good to know that a council employee somewhere has a grasp of logic. Thanks for posting. I think I'll repeat my earlier post in that again it is their incompetence that has caused a problem for me, therefore I am not inclined to be gracious about this. Yes, I do have names, dates and time that I talked to people (one thing I have learned.) Calling tomorrow won't help as it is Saturday, and I am SURE they won't be working. I'd be interested in that 20-page essay, but fear that it would make my blood boil more than it currently is. Thanks again tho'. Sack 'em all would be my vote as well!
Oli.
Edited by zcacogp on Friday 19th December 20:31
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