Hunting ban to be repealled?
Discussion
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/article5401...
TBH I think the ban was wrong in the first place. Far too many British traditions are being consigned to the dustbin through PC and a vocal minority. I believe that the vast majority of the British public proabably couldn't care less about hunting with hounds, and have never (and will never) go anywhere near a hunt. Their opinion is shaped by the emotional propaganda distributed by a sensationalist press and a bunch of middle class soap-dodgers rebelling against 'mummy and daddy'. How long before the general public is conned into thinking that the very things that we on PH hold dear should be banned? Track days (and indeed all motorsport) due to noise, emissions etc. Why not limit all cars to 70mph? GPS road pricing (and stealth speed monitoring), and many more.
We have already seen the 'consensus'(ha) on MMGW start to come apart at the seams. If the hunting ban is repealled under a new Tory government, will this signal a shift back towards common sense or are we really now set on a course of self destruction through legislation?
Discuss
TBH I think the ban was wrong in the first place. Far too many British traditions are being consigned to the dustbin through PC and a vocal minority. I believe that the vast majority of the British public proabably couldn't care less about hunting with hounds, and have never (and will never) go anywhere near a hunt. Their opinion is shaped by the emotional propaganda distributed by a sensationalist press and a bunch of middle class soap-dodgers rebelling against 'mummy and daddy'. How long before the general public is conned into thinking that the very things that we on PH hold dear should be banned? Track days (and indeed all motorsport) due to noise, emissions etc. Why not limit all cars to 70mph? GPS road pricing (and stealth speed monitoring), and many more.
We have already seen the 'consensus'(ha) on MMGW start to come apart at the seams. If the hunting ban is repealled under a new Tory government, will this signal a shift back towards common sense or are we really now set on a course of self destruction through legislation?
Discuss
LD1Racing said:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/article5401...
TBH I think the ban was wrong in the first place. Far too many British traditions are being consigned to the dustbin through PC and a vocal minority. I believe that the vast majority of the British public proabably couldn't care less about hunting with hounds, and have never (and will never) go anywhere near a hunt. Their opinion is shaped by the emotional propaganda distributed by a sensationalist press and a bunch of middle class soap-dodgers rebelling against 'mummy and daddy'. How long before the general public is conned into thinking that the very things that we on PH hold dear should be banned? Track days (and indeed all motorsport) due to noise, emissions etc. Why not limit all cars to 70mph? GPS road pricing (and stealth speed monitoring), and many more.
We have already seen the 'consensus'(ha) on MMGW start to come apart at the seams. If the hunting ban is repealled under a new Tory government, will this signal a shift back towards common sense or are we really now set on a course of self destruction through legislation?
Discuss
spot on mate.TBH I think the ban was wrong in the first place. Far too many British traditions are being consigned to the dustbin through PC and a vocal minority. I believe that the vast majority of the British public proabably couldn't care less about hunting with hounds, and have never (and will never) go anywhere near a hunt. Their opinion is shaped by the emotional propaganda distributed by a sensationalist press and a bunch of middle class soap-dodgers rebelling against 'mummy and daddy'. How long before the general public is conned into thinking that the very things that we on PH hold dear should be banned? Track days (and indeed all motorsport) due to noise, emissions etc. Why not limit all cars to 70mph? GPS road pricing (and stealth speed monitoring), and many more.
We have already seen the 'consensus'(ha) on MMGW start to come apart at the seams. If the hunting ban is repealled under a new Tory government, will this signal a shift back towards common sense or are we really now set on a course of self destruction through legislation?
Discuss
I don't see how you can link hunting to car related stuff - it really isn't the thin end of the wedge and discussing the two in the same breath will not add to the debate.
Hunting with dogs was banned because IT IS cruel, and IMHO morally wrong. It is an extremely ineffective way of killing the fox. Running it to exhaustion and then tearing it to bits is not something I think we should be glorifying just because it is an English tradition. Yes fox numbers need to be controlled, but the Hunt is not the way to do it.
Before anyone accuses me of spouting city dweller propaganda bulls
t, I live in a big farming community and probably the hunting capital of North Yorkshire. I'm also supporter of the local shoots, because at least the majority of what is killed is eaten. A shotgun is also a pretty quick and painless way to dispatch something. And as for the 97% of country folk support the Hunt propaganda that the pro-hunt set sport as window stickers - now that is propaganda. I know a lot of farmers round here who hate the hunt due to the damage they do to their land.
Hunting with dogs was banned because IT IS cruel, and IMHO morally wrong. It is an extremely ineffective way of killing the fox. Running it to exhaustion and then tearing it to bits is not something I think we should be glorifying just because it is an English tradition. Yes fox numbers need to be controlled, but the Hunt is not the way to do it.
Before anyone accuses me of spouting city dweller propaganda bulls
t, I live in a big farming community and probably the hunting capital of North Yorkshire. I'm also supporter of the local shoots, because at least the majority of what is killed is eaten. A shotgun is also a pretty quick and painless way to dispatch something. And as for the 97% of country folk support the Hunt propaganda that the pro-hunt set sport as window stickers - now that is propaganda. I know a lot of farmers round here who hate the hunt due to the damage they do to their land.
LD1Racing said:
I believe that the vast majority of the British public proabably couldn't care less about hunting with hounds
In the last MORI poll wasn't there something huge like a 70% support of the ban? I grew up in the country in a hunt area and don't support fox hunting with dogs. The hunt in my area was largely made up of people who didn't live there. I expect if just the locals were asked to vote then the ban would still stand.People are against hunting foxes because they think it's cruel. There is widespread public apathy towards MMGW just because fox hunting or smoking or whatever has been banned, it doesn't mean there will be a ban for motorsport activities in any form whatsoever.
All the time on here people say "How long until your hobby is banned" It's simply not a valid argument to suggest people should support fox hunting with dogs incase "they" want to ban track days or driving etc.
I think this was just a case of people in Parliament getting a kick out of taking something away from the higher classes.
Most have ignored the law anyway, there was certainly a hunt taking place here Yesterday.
I do not care much for the people that participate in hunts, but i respect there freedom to do what they please and just ignore it, get on with what i want to do in my life with my time.
PC Cocks, when can we remove them all? I could not care less, wish they would stop poking there noses into everything causing carnage grrrr
Most have ignored the law anyway, there was certainly a hunt taking place here Yesterday.
I do not care much for the people that participate in hunts, but i respect there freedom to do what they please and just ignore it, get on with what i want to do in my life with my time.
PC Cocks, when can we remove them all? I could not care less, wish they would stop poking there noses into everything causing carnage grrrr
Edited by Scrotum on Saturday 27th December 10:03
kippax said:
Not sure about the majority part as I for one fully welcomed the end of this barbaric practice.
Indeed, and attempting to somehow attach it to other issues is typical of the way hysteria was whipped up at the time. 'The Countryside Alliance'..... Bring back foxhunting and save your local post-office from closure??? What people don't seem to realise that is that MANY 'countryside dwellers' (like me, born and bred) don't see it as an errosion of our 'country ways' at all...
I never agreed with the ban myself, fox are vermin and until Basil brush came along no one thought otherwise. The main reason that fox hunting was banned was due to the view it was a posh mans sport and certain groups oposed that just as much as the cruelty issue. yes there is cruelty in every form of hunting and in producing the meat we eat, but we turn a blind eye to it because someone eats the meat.
It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
spaximus said:
It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
It is actually a huge leap to link a fox hunting or smoking ban with banning "big engined cars".spaximus said:
I never agreed with the ban myself, fox are vermin and until Basil brush came along no one thought otherwise. The main reason that fox hunting was banned was due to the view it was a posh mans sport and certain groups oposed that just as much as the cruelty issue. yes there is cruelty in every form of hunting and in producing the meat we eat, but we turn a blind eye to it because someone eats the meat.
It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I don't think anyone is arguing that fox numbers don't need to be controlled, it is the mechanism through which this is achieved which is contentious. It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I'm sorry but you simply cannot compare fox hunting to food production and other hunting types. Hunting with dogs is all about running the fox to exhaustion and the fox being ripped apart, not about vermin control. If it wasn't then the Hunts would be happy to continue with drag hunts.
el stovey said:
In the last MORI poll wasn't there something huge like a 70% support of the ban?
If you asked the same people whether they thought speed cameras saved lives you would get a similar response in favour. The majority of people are uninformed, do no independant research and their opinions are based on what they are fed by the media, right or wrong. I am simply saying that it is easy to get people to follow you, propaganda is an extremely powerful tool. I am also not saying that your opinion is uninformed, it is just that you happened to quote th 70% figure. An extreme example obviously, but what percentage of the population of pre-war Germany actually belived that the mass extermination of people was a good idea? or were they just led by a skewed propaganda machine? I am sure this does not need to be said (but this is PH after all) I am in no way comparing the ban on hunting or the 'speed kills' campaign to the holocaust
The majority of people are sheep, and will take what they are told at face value without question. It seems that whomever has the loudest voice (most media coverage) will be believed, and if the anti-hunt, anti-car, anti-smoking lobby is given the loudest voice it will be the dominant opinion.
spaximus said:
I never agreed with the ban myself, fox are vermin and until Basil brush came along no one thought otherwise. The main reason that fox hunting was banned was due to the view it was a posh mans sport and certain groups oposed that just as much as the cruelty issue. yes there is cruelty in every form of hunting and in producing the meat we eat, but we turn a blind eye to it because someone eats the meat.
It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
So basically you're saying bring back hunting with horses , hounds etc, but in an urban environment.....It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
rhinochopig said:
spaximus said:
I never agreed with the ban myself, fox are vermin and until Basil brush came along no one thought otherwise. The main reason that fox hunting was banned was due to the view it was a posh mans sport and certain groups oposed that just as much as the cruelty issue. yes there is cruelty in every form of hunting and in producing the meat we eat, but we turn a blind eye to it because someone eats the meat.
It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I don't think anyone is arguing that fox numbers don't need to be controlled, it is the mechanism through which this is achieved which is contentious. It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I'm sorry but you simply cannot compare fox hunting to food production and other hunting types. Hunting with dogs is all about running the fox to exhaustion and the fox being ripped apart, not about vermin control. If it wasn't then the Hunts would be happy to continue with drag hunts.
elster said:
rhinochopig said:
spaximus said:
I never agreed with the ban myself, fox are vermin and until Basil brush came along no one thought otherwise. The main reason that fox hunting was banned was due to the view it was a posh mans sport and certain groups oposed that just as much as the cruelty issue. yes there is cruelty in every form of hunting and in producing the meat we eat, but we turn a blind eye to it because someone eats the meat.
It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I don't think anyone is arguing that fox numbers don't need to be controlled, it is the mechanism through which this is achieved which is contentious. It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I'm sorry but you simply cannot compare fox hunting to food production and other hunting types. Hunting with dogs is all about running the fox to exhaustion and the fox being ripped apart, not about vermin control. If it wasn't then the Hunts would be happy to continue with drag hunts.
Was home in Wales visiting friends on a local farm, we were out in the yard when one very bedraggled fox tuns up closely followed by a pack of hounds. The fox was clearly ripped to bits in front of us.
Normally if they had trouble with a fox my mates fella would go out, dig out the fox and shoot it, nice and simple.
eccles said:
elster said:
rhinochopig said:
spaximus said:
I never agreed with the ban myself, fox are vermin and until Basil brush came along no one thought otherwise. The main reason that fox hunting was banned was due to the view it was a posh mans sport and certain groups oposed that just as much as the cruelty issue. yes there is cruelty in every form of hunting and in producing the meat we eat, but we turn a blind eye to it because someone eats the meat.
It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I don't think anyone is arguing that fox numbers don't need to be controlled, it is the mechanism through which this is achieved which is contentious. It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I'm sorry but you simply cannot compare fox hunting to food production and other hunting types. Hunting with dogs is all about running the fox to exhaustion and the fox being ripped apart, not about vermin control. If it wasn't then the Hunts would be happy to continue with drag hunts.
Was home in Wales visiting friends on a local farm, we were out in the yard when one very bedraggled fox tuns up closely followed by a pack of hounds. The fox was clearly ripped to bits in front of us.
Normally if they had trouble with a fox my mates fella would go out, dig out the fox and shoot it, nice and simple.
elster said:
rhinochopig said:
spaximus said:
I never agreed with the ban myself, fox are vermin and until Basil brush came along no one thought otherwise. The main reason that fox hunting was banned was due to the view it was a posh mans sport and certain groups oposed that just as much as the cruelty issue. yes there is cruelty in every form of hunting and in producing the meat we eat, but we turn a blind eye to it because someone eats the meat.
It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I don't think anyone is arguing that fox numbers don't need to be controlled, it is the mechanism through which this is achieved which is contentious. It isn't a big jump from this and other bans Labour have put in place to assume that some forms of motor related ativities will suffer. Using off road vehicles on green lanes is now severly reduced because laws that were in place have been changed for example. How long before the tree huggers get big engined cars banned etc etc.
Bans are all well and good when they don't affect you, but when they do they are not fair. Personally I lived in the country but now live in a city where foxes are rife, when they get as large a problem as rats then people might change their views
I'm sorry but you simply cannot compare fox hunting to food production and other hunting types. Hunting with dogs is all about running the fox to exhaustion and the fox being ripped apart, not about vermin control. If it wasn't then the Hunts would be happy to continue with drag hunts.
If you've never seen a fox ripped apart, then perhaps you should spend 5 minutes on google. There really isn't a shortage of videos.
Regardless of whether you've seen one being ripped apart or not, or whether I've witnessed it first hand or not, you simply cannot argue that the mechanism for killing a fox using dogs is a humane one. There are far more effective and humane methods.
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