Why was Germany succesful after the war?
Discussion
Forgive my ignorance on the matter but as I'm sat here bored the thought crossed my mind for some strange reason.
Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
raf_gti said:
Forgive my ignorance on the matter but as I'm sat here bored the thought crossed my mind for some strange reason.
Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
Erm, yes. Got it in one.Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
Alfa_75_Steve said:
raf_gti said:
Forgive my ignorance on the matter but as I'm sat here bored the thought crossed my mind for some strange reason.
Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
Erm, yes. Got it in one.Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
Alfa_75_Steve said:
raf_gti said:
Forgive my ignorance on the matter but as I'm sat here bored the thought crossed my mind for some strange reason.
Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
Erm, yes. Got it in one.Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
rhinochopig said:
Also the scale of devastation allowed for redevelopment of its infrastructure on a massive scale, without the need for military spending. A modern infrastructure makes a more efficient county.
Fantastic.So now we have just the excuse that we need to flatten this country and start all over?
I wonder where the world would be right now if it wasn't for the two wars. Technologically we would be very far behind I should imagine.
As 'rhinochopig' has intimated, "No military spending" was a huge factor. It had the same effect on Japan- without expansionist motives and the ensuing huge costs, both countries prospered massively. Britain, in contrast, tried to continue the pretense that we had an empire. We might have made a go with the Commonwealth, but joining the EC left us with all the associated costs and none of the benefits...
Also, depending on how "postwar" you're thinking, France and Germany formed a partnership in the 50s to revitalise European industrialisation - the European Coal & Steel Community. Which would later become the EEC and now EU.
Ironically, it was Churchill that scuppered us on that one as it was actually his suggestion for Europe to unite to try and recover from the mess of the war, but that Britain wouldn't actually be a part of it, preferring to maintain close ties with America rather than the continent. The French (well, de Gaulle specifically really) blocked our entrance into the community twice in the 60s citing exactly the same justification.
eta - f
k me, I remembered something from my A-levels...
Ironically, it was Churchill that scuppered us on that one as it was actually his suggestion for Europe to unite to try and recover from the mess of the war, but that Britain wouldn't actually be a part of it, preferring to maintain close ties with America rather than the continent. The French (well, de Gaulle specifically really) blocked our entrance into the community twice in the 60s citing exactly the same justification.
eta - f
k me, I remembered something from my A-levels...Edited by Famous Graham on Sunday 28th December 15:57
Famous Graham said:
Also, depending on how "postwar" you're thinking, France and Germany formed a partnership in the 50s to revitalise European industrialisation - the European Coal & Steel Community. Which would later become the EEC and now EU.
Ironically, it was Churchill that scuppered us on that one as it was actually his suggestion for Europe to unite to try and recover from the mess of the war, but that Britain wouldn't actually be a part of it, preferring to maintain close ties with America rather than the continent. The French (well, de Gaulle specifically really) blocked our entrance into the community twice in the 60s citing exactly the same justification.
eta - fk me, I remembered something from my A-levels...
So not a completely wasted education then as I feared. Ironically, it was Churchill that scuppered us on that one as it was actually his suggestion for Europe to unite to try and recover from the mess of the war, but that Britain wouldn't actually be a part of it, preferring to maintain close ties with America rather than the continent. The French (well, de Gaulle specifically really) blocked our entrance into the community twice in the 60s citing exactly the same justification.
eta - f
k me, I remembered something from my A-levels...Edited by Famous Graham on Sunday 28th December 15:57
cloggy said:
Famous Graham said:
Also, depending on how "postwar" you're thinking, France and Germany formed a partnership in the 50s to revitalise European industrialisation - the European Coal & Steel Community. Which would later become the EEC and now EU.
Ironically, it was Churchill that scuppered us on that one as it was actually his suggestion for Europe to unite to try and recover from the mess of the war, but that Britain wouldn't actually be a part of it, preferring to maintain close ties with America rather than the continent. The French (well, de Gaulle specifically really) blocked our entrance into the community twice in the 60s citing exactly the same justification.
eta - fk me, I remembered something from my A-levels...
So not a completely wasted education then as I feared. Ironically, it was Churchill that scuppered us on that one as it was actually his suggestion for Europe to unite to try and recover from the mess of the war, but that Britain wouldn't actually be a part of it, preferring to maintain close ties with America rather than the continent. The French (well, de Gaulle specifically really) blocked our entrance into the community twice in the 60s citing exactly the same justification.
eta - f
k me, I remembered something from my A-levels...Edited by Famous Graham on Sunday 28th December 15:57
Oh, by the way, the rapid global rise of Communism and the "protection" that a solid West German economy could provide to the citizens of the Federal Republic (in terms of making Europe less likely to bargain it away to the Eastern Bloc), shouldn't be underestimated either, as far as galvanising Germany's politicians and populous is concerned.
Adenaur's the chap generally credited with getting things back on track.
Adenaur's the chap generally credited with getting things back on track.
Edited by Famous Graham on Sunday 28th December 16:14
grumbledoak said:
As 'rhinochopig' has intimated, "No military spending" was a huge factor. It had the same effect on Japan- without expansionist motives and the ensuing huge costs, both countries prospered massively. Britain, in contrast, tried to continue the pretense that we had an empire. We might have made a go with the Commonwealth, but joining the EC left us with all the associated costs and none of the benefits...
But Japan has one of the highest military budgets in the world.They might not have an offensive force, but their military is damn well funded.
raf_gti said:
Forgive my ignorance on the matter but as I'm sat here bored the thought crossed my mind for some strange reason.
Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
We only finished paying them back in 2006.Britain was the world leader but was bankrupt after two wars, surely ze Germans should have been in a similar boat? Or was it simply because the Allies helped them re-structure and in our case had to pay back the Americans?
cloggy said:
Nobody mentioned 'the Marshall Plan', huge financial investments by the US in Germany to protect against the commies as Graham mentioned.
The French tried to knacker that one, getting a bit wary of a rising Germany again, but the US persevered. It was massive pressure from the US that actually got France to acknowledge the West German state in the late 40s in the first place, too.cloggy said:
Famous Graham said:
Also, depending on how "postwar" you're thinking, France and Germany formed a partnership in the 50s to revitalise European industrialisation - the European Coal & Steel Community. Which would later become the EEC and now EU.
Ironically, it was Churchill that scuppered us on that one as it was actually his suggestion for Europe to unite to try and recover from the mess of the war, but that Britain wouldn't actually be a part of it, preferring to maintain close ties with America rather than the continent. The French (well, de Gaulle specifically really) blocked our entrance into the community twice in the 60s citing exactly the same justification.
eta - fk me, I remembered something from my A-levels...
So not a completely wasted education then as I feared. Ironically, it was Churchill that scuppered us on that one as it was actually his suggestion for Europe to unite to try and recover from the mess of the war, but that Britain wouldn't actually be a part of it, preferring to maintain close ties with America rather than the continent. The French (well, de Gaulle specifically really) blocked our entrance into the community twice in the 60s citing exactly the same justification.
eta - f
k me, I remembered something from my A-levels...Edited by Famous Graham on Sunday 28th December 15:57
Imagine THAT!!!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6261885.stm
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