Alcohol tolerance/intolerance - what's the sciency bit?
Discussion
Someone posted here yesterday about not being able to drink as much as they used to because they haven't done so for a while. It's not the first time I've heard people say that, and it's also something I've thought I'd experienced.
Yet, it's been niggling me as to the reasons why, or even if it's true at all. Is there some acclimatisation to alcohol, ie do you "process" it more efficiently after a time? Or is it just coincidence, and the times we've fallen over we haven't had enough to eat, imbibed faster, or had a minor cold or something?
I appreciate this isn't a medical forum, but un-informed speculation is, of course, welcomed
Yet, it's been niggling me as to the reasons why, or even if it's true at all. Is there some acclimatisation to alcohol, ie do you "process" it more efficiently after a time? Or is it just coincidence, and the times we've fallen over we haven't had enough to eat, imbibed faster, or had a minor cold or something?
I appreciate this isn't a medical forum, but un-informed speculation is, of course, welcomed
I haven't really been drinking for the last couple of weeks as I've had man-flu over the Xmas period. Had three bottles of Thirsty Ferret last night had certainly got a bit of a headache now.
Normally 7-8 pints would make me feel like this so there must be some truth in it !!
I remember once I had a 'clean' January period as December was a bit OTT. Never again !! It took me ages to get back into the swing of things !!
Normally 7-8 pints would make me feel like this so there must be some truth in it !!
I remember once I had a 'clean' January period as December was a bit OTT. Never again !! It took me ages to get back into the swing of things !!
Alcohol tolerance is a dangerous reality.
I was in hospital in 2007 with a local guy. Regular sort, ran his own business, didn't drink at all during the day and went to the pub with his missus the odd Saturday or Sunday for lunch.
Each night when he came in from work his wife would fix them both a SMALL drink. They'd share a bottle of wine with their evening meal and he'd have a whisky nightcap before bed.
When I bumped into him in hospital he'd just come out of CCU and had a close brush with death from acute alcoholic pancreatitis. He was out of his head on morphine for three days and he was given a 50/50 chance by the consultant. He'd lost about half his pancreas to the condition. I popped back to see him before he was discharged fifteen days later. They'd had to moniter him with CAT scans as he might have needed an op to remove the necrotised tissue if it began to form a cyst, but luckily it didn't and would gradually be absorbed into the body. It had come on with no warning, he'll probably develop dibetes because of it, and will never be able to touch alcohol again without fear of it recurring.
It certainly was a wake up call for me and I've significantly changed my drinking habits as I reckon I was probably drinking more than him at the time.
We see each other now and again and he's fine now, but very lucky. The doc told him it's not just the amount but the regularity which can have profound effects. I'd never consider him to be a raging alcoholic but there was never a day went by when he didn't have a drink, not a lot by a lot of peoples standards, but the regularity of it did the damage.
I get scoffed now and then from the family when I have a ginger beer or ginger wine, boring old fart is I think the description, but now it's drinks on special occasions and holidays only, and I don't really miss it a lot as long as I'm joining in with a glass of something in my hand.
I was in hospital in 2007 with a local guy. Regular sort, ran his own business, didn't drink at all during the day and went to the pub with his missus the odd Saturday or Sunday for lunch.
Each night when he came in from work his wife would fix them both a SMALL drink. They'd share a bottle of wine with their evening meal and he'd have a whisky nightcap before bed.
When I bumped into him in hospital he'd just come out of CCU and had a close brush with death from acute alcoholic pancreatitis. He was out of his head on morphine for three days and he was given a 50/50 chance by the consultant. He'd lost about half his pancreas to the condition. I popped back to see him before he was discharged fifteen days later. They'd had to moniter him with CAT scans as he might have needed an op to remove the necrotised tissue if it began to form a cyst, but luckily it didn't and would gradually be absorbed into the body. It had come on with no warning, he'll probably develop dibetes because of it, and will never be able to touch alcohol again without fear of it recurring.
It certainly was a wake up call for me and I've significantly changed my drinking habits as I reckon I was probably drinking more than him at the time.
We see each other now and again and he's fine now, but very lucky. The doc told him it's not just the amount but the regularity which can have profound effects. I'd never consider him to be a raging alcoholic but there was never a day went by when he didn't have a drink, not a lot by a lot of peoples standards, but the regularity of it did the damage.
I get scoffed now and then from the family when I have a ginger beer or ginger wine, boring old fart is I think the description, but now it's drinks on special occasions and holidays only, and I don't really miss it a lot as long as I'm joining in with a glass of something in my hand.
The minor cold thing, as well as all sorts of minor variations, like temperature, tiredness level, etc, all play a part apparently. Was looking recently at the 1966 Drink drive Act and the basis on which they settled for 80 mg. And they went into all these points, and confirmed that the same person might reach 80 with fewer drinks on some occasions than on others.
Since I hit about 25 I have been unable to drink more than about 5 or 6 without suffering a hangover that see's me sitting next to the toilet all day, I usually stop puking about 6pm
Tried everything from various spirits, beer, lager, wine, all the same effect.
I am not small, neither do I drink on empty stomach.
Now I just drink til I am merry, stop, then when I feel more sober have another one, best of both worlds then
Unless someone throws a spanner in the works.
Tried everything from various spirits, beer, lager, wine, all the same effect.
I am not small, neither do I drink on empty stomach.
Now I just drink til I am merry, stop, then when I feel more sober have another one, best of both worlds then
Unless someone throws a spanner in the works.I'm now the opposite of younger days, i can't get the old style exploding head hangovers at all, they seem to have worn off. I still don't feel great, but it's nowhere near the teenage years.
As for tolerance, if i have a few weeks off, i'll fall out of training.
The is also a process called alcohol flushing where many Asian/Far east people can't break down alcohol and deal with it in the same way as many others.
Similar to Native Americans not being used to drinking milk
As for tolerance, if i have a few weeks off, i'll fall out of training.
The is also a process called alcohol flushing where many Asian/Far east people can't break down alcohol and deal with it in the same way as many others.
Similar to Native Americans not being used to drinking milk
When I hit 45, I made a conscious decision to cut it out. There was a drink culture at work and mixing with the Military only made it worse. Two lunchtime sessions a week can take a toll on your physique and with a perpetual weight problem, I was never going to square things away health wise unless I adopted a more moderate life style.
I am not teetotal by any means, just moderate in my drinking habits. Mind you I know I could cut loose if I chose to and with a drinks cupboard bulging as a result of travelling World wide and often, I shall never run out at the rate it is being consumed. Entertaining at home is the danger time, all the odd bottles come out and you have to try them all during the evening.
I am not teetotal by any means, just moderate in my drinking habits. Mind you I know I could cut loose if I chose to and with a drinks cupboard bulging as a result of travelling World wide and often, I shall never run out at the rate it is being consumed. Entertaining at home is the danger time, all the odd bottles come out and you have to try them all during the evening.
TheEnd said:
The is also a process called alcohol flushing where many Asian/Far east people can't break down alcohol and deal with it in the same way as many others.
Yup, it's one of the genetic differences between races which we don't like to talk about too much. Something to do with a chromasome that codes for an enzyme which breaks down alcohol in the liver.Other big differences between the effects of alcohol on individual or another include,
Physical size - a unit of alcohol is relatively bigger in a small person than in a large one.
Body fat - which women have more of so are for some reason more susceptible to damage.
Other medicines - some make the effects of alcohol more pronounced.
Hence the lower maximum weekly unit recommendation for women.
From
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
Alcohol Tolerance
People may become tolerant to the desired effects of alcohol as well as to its aversive (unpleasant) effects. Tolerance can develop after a period of chronic alcohol exposure (protracted tolerance) or after a single dose (acute tolerance). It also can be expressed as strong individual and animal strain differences in initial sensitivity to alcohol (innate tolerance). Tolerance can be studied behaviorally in animals and humans, or biochemically in isolated organs, brain cells, and membranes. The use of isolated cells and other simple systems allows the investigation of the mechanism of tolerance at a molecular and genetic level.
The development of tolerance allows and encourages increased intake of alcohol because more of the drug is required to achieve the same effect.
Abuse, occasional use, and even therapeutic use of many drugs may lead to the development of tolerance and dependence. Tolerance for and dependence on alcohol and other drugs promote drug intake, increasing the damaging effects of the drug over time. This article provides an overview of what is known about the processes of tolerance and dependence, and discusses rescent scientific developments that reveal more about these phenomena. For a more detailed review of alcohol tolerance and dependence, several excellent reviews are available (Goldstein 1983; Koob and Bloom 1988; Kalant et al. 1971).
Mechanisms of Alcohol Tolerance
Metabolic Tolerance. Alcohol is metabolized almost entirely in the liver, where the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) oxidizes alcohol to form acetaldehyde. Alcohol also can be oxidized by the liver enzyme catalase and by an enzyme complex known as the microsomal ethanol-oxidizing system (MEOS). Chronic alcohol consumption increases the amount of these liver enzymes, a process known as enzyme induction (Kalant et al. 1971; Lieber et al. 1975a, b; Videla and Israel 1970). As a result, there is a small increase in the ability of the liver to metabolize alcohol in alcohol-tolerant subjects, so that a larger dose of alcohol is needed to achieve the same blood and brain alcohol levels. However, the increase in alcohol oxidation in alcohol-tolerant subjects is limited and can account only partially for alcohol tolerance.
Enzyme induction in alcohol-tolerant subjects also is important because these enzymes normally metabolize hormones in the body, and also metabolize drugs other than alcohol. Thus, induction of these enzymes nparticularly cytochrome P450, a component of MEOS) leads to hormonal imbalances and also can alter the effects of drugs taken concomitantly. For example, enzyme induction increases the rate of testosterone metabolism in males, thus causing low testosterone levels in alcoholics. The cytochrome P450 enzyme system also is responsible for metabolism of medications such as barbiturates. Enzyme induction by alcohol can increase clearance of these substances from the body, resulting in metabolic cross-tolerance to barbiturates and other drugs.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
Alcohol Tolerance
People may become tolerant to the desired effects of alcohol as well as to its aversive (unpleasant) effects. Tolerance can develop after a period of chronic alcohol exposure (protracted tolerance) or after a single dose (acute tolerance). It also can be expressed as strong individual and animal strain differences in initial sensitivity to alcohol (innate tolerance). Tolerance can be studied behaviorally in animals and humans, or biochemically in isolated organs, brain cells, and membranes. The use of isolated cells and other simple systems allows the investigation of the mechanism of tolerance at a molecular and genetic level.
The development of tolerance allows and encourages increased intake of alcohol because more of the drug is required to achieve the same effect.
Abuse, occasional use, and even therapeutic use of many drugs may lead to the development of tolerance and dependence. Tolerance for and dependence on alcohol and other drugs promote drug intake, increasing the damaging effects of the drug over time. This article provides an overview of what is known about the processes of tolerance and dependence, and discusses rescent scientific developments that reveal more about these phenomena. For a more detailed review of alcohol tolerance and dependence, several excellent reviews are available (Goldstein 1983; Koob and Bloom 1988; Kalant et al. 1971).
Mechanisms of Alcohol Tolerance
Metabolic Tolerance. Alcohol is metabolized almost entirely in the liver, where the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) oxidizes alcohol to form acetaldehyde. Alcohol also can be oxidized by the liver enzyme catalase and by an enzyme complex known as the microsomal ethanol-oxidizing system (MEOS). Chronic alcohol consumption increases the amount of these liver enzymes, a process known as enzyme induction (Kalant et al. 1971; Lieber et al. 1975a, b; Videla and Israel 1970). As a result, there is a small increase in the ability of the liver to metabolize alcohol in alcohol-tolerant subjects, so that a larger dose of alcohol is needed to achieve the same blood and brain alcohol levels. However, the increase in alcohol oxidation in alcohol-tolerant subjects is limited and can account only partially for alcohol tolerance.
Enzyme induction in alcohol-tolerant subjects also is important because these enzymes normally metabolize hormones in the body, and also metabolize drugs other than alcohol. Thus, induction of these enzymes nparticularly cytochrome P450, a component of MEOS) leads to hormonal imbalances and also can alter the effects of drugs taken concomitantly. For example, enzyme induction increases the rate of testosterone metabolism in males, thus causing low testosterone levels in alcoholics. The cytochrome P450 enzyme system also is responsible for metabolism of medications such as barbiturates. Enzyme induction by alcohol can increase clearance of these substances from the body, resulting in metabolic cross-tolerance to barbiturates and other drugs.
turbobloke said:
From
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
Alcohol Tolerance
People may become tolerant to the desired effects of alcohol as well as to its aversive (unpleasant) effects. Tolerance can develop after a period of chronic alcohol exposure (protracted tolerance) or after a single dose (acute tolerance). It also can be expressed as strong individual and animal strain differences in initial sensitivity to alcohol (innate tolerance). Tolerance can be studied behaviorally in animals and humans, or biochemically in isolated organs, brain cells, and membranes. The use of isolated cells and other simple systems allows the investigation of the mechanism of tolerance at a molecular and genetic level.
The development of tolerance allows and encourages increased intake of alcohol because more of the drug is required to achieve the same effect.
Abuse, occasional use, and even therapeutic use of many drugs may lead to the development of tolerance and dependence. Tolerance for and dependence on alcohol and other drugs promote drug intake, increasing the damaging effects of the drug over time. This article provides an overview of what is known about the processes of tolerance and dependence, and discusses rescent scientific developments that reveal more about these phenomena. For a more detailed review of alcohol tolerance and dependence, several excellent reviews are available (Goldstein 1983; Koob and Bloom 1988; Kalant et al. 1971).
Mechanisms of Alcohol Tolerance
Metabolic Tolerance. Alcohol is metabolized almost entirely in the liver, where the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) oxidizes alcohol to form acetaldehyde. Alcohol also can be oxidized by the liver enzyme catalase and by an enzyme complex known as the microsomal ethanol-oxidizing system (MEOS). Chronic alcohol consumption increases the amount of these liver enzymes, a process known as enzyme induction (Kalant et al. 1971; Lieber et al. 1975a, b; Videla and Israel 1970). As a result, there is a small increase in the ability of the liver to metabolize alcohol in alcohol-tolerant subjects, so that a larger dose of alcohol is needed to achieve the same blood and brain alcohol levels. However, the increase in alcohol oxidation in alcohol-tolerant subjects is limited and can account only partially for alcohol tolerance.
Enzyme induction in alcohol-tolerant subjects also is important because these enzymes normally metabolize hormones in the body, and also metabolize drugs other than alcohol. Thus, induction of these enzymes nparticularly cytochrome P450, a component of MEOS) leads to hormonal imbalances and also can alter the effects of drugs taken concomitantly. For example, enzyme induction increases the rate of testosterone metabolism in males, thus causing low testosterone levels in alcoholics. The cytochrome P450 enzyme system also is responsible for metabolism of medications such as barbiturates. Enzyme induction by alcohol can increase clearance of these substances from the body, resulting in metabolic cross-tolerance to barbiturates and other drugs.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
Alcohol Tolerance
People may become tolerant to the desired effects of alcohol as well as to its aversive (unpleasant) effects. Tolerance can develop after a period of chronic alcohol exposure (protracted tolerance) or after a single dose (acute tolerance). It also can be expressed as strong individual and animal strain differences in initial sensitivity to alcohol (innate tolerance). Tolerance can be studied behaviorally in animals and humans, or biochemically in isolated organs, brain cells, and membranes. The use of isolated cells and other simple systems allows the investigation of the mechanism of tolerance at a molecular and genetic level.
The development of tolerance allows and encourages increased intake of alcohol because more of the drug is required to achieve the same effect.
Abuse, occasional use, and even therapeutic use of many drugs may lead to the development of tolerance and dependence. Tolerance for and dependence on alcohol and other drugs promote drug intake, increasing the damaging effects of the drug over time. This article provides an overview of what is known about the processes of tolerance and dependence, and discusses rescent scientific developments that reveal more about these phenomena. For a more detailed review of alcohol tolerance and dependence, several excellent reviews are available (Goldstein 1983; Koob and Bloom 1988; Kalant et al. 1971).
Mechanisms of Alcohol Tolerance
Metabolic Tolerance. Alcohol is metabolized almost entirely in the liver, where the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) oxidizes alcohol to form acetaldehyde. Alcohol also can be oxidized by the liver enzyme catalase and by an enzyme complex known as the microsomal ethanol-oxidizing system (MEOS). Chronic alcohol consumption increases the amount of these liver enzymes, a process known as enzyme induction (Kalant et al. 1971; Lieber et al. 1975a, b; Videla and Israel 1970). As a result, there is a small increase in the ability of the liver to metabolize alcohol in alcohol-tolerant subjects, so that a larger dose of alcohol is needed to achieve the same blood and brain alcohol levels. However, the increase in alcohol oxidation in alcohol-tolerant subjects is limited and can account only partially for alcohol tolerance.
Enzyme induction in alcohol-tolerant subjects also is important because these enzymes normally metabolize hormones in the body, and also metabolize drugs other than alcohol. Thus, induction of these enzymes nparticularly cytochrome P450, a component of MEOS) leads to hormonal imbalances and also can alter the effects of drugs taken concomitantly. For example, enzyme induction increases the rate of testosterone metabolism in males, thus causing low testosterone levels in alcoholics. The cytochrome P450 enzyme system also is responsible for metabolism of medications such as barbiturates. Enzyme induction by alcohol can increase clearance of these substances from the body, resulting in metabolic cross-tolerance to barbiturates and other drugs.
Well you did ask Alcohol tolerance/intolerance - what's the sciency bit?
TWSTEEL said:
turbobloke said:
From
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
Well you did ask Alcohol tolerance/intolerance - what's the sciency bit?One thing that isn't mentioned that someone else touched on is "pharmacogenetics". Individuals different genetic make-ups result in differing metabolism of substrate. An example of this is shown in alcohol as the further East you go their tends to be an enzyme missing in populations(If I remember correctly) that is often present in "Caucasians". It should be noted that biology does not segregate purely on race so their are many exceptions to the rule (Google Adolf Hitler for references). As an aside their is a tendancy for Asian populations to have a much greater tolerance to cigarette smoke as they have multiple copies of protective enzymes not present in most Caucasians. So they can probably puff away into their 80's whilst we Caucasians die horribly...
In terms of differences between men and women, besides body weigh, health, etc. I don't think anyone mentioned that alcohol metabolism starts in the stomach. Again if memory serves the expression of this enzyme in the stomach is much lower in women than men. So much more of the alcohol is allowed into the blood stream in the first place in women. The levels of these enzymes are also reduced in the alcoholics due to damage to the stomach. So alcoholic women can allow somewhere in the region of ~100% of alcohol ingested into the blood. This is a significant increase so when comparing absorption and metabolism against races and sexes it should be taken into account (It aint just the liver!).
There are many many factors to consider as the paper above makes aware. Some people even have 3 kidneys... Although George Best did have 2 livers as well...
G_T said:
TWSTEEL said:
turbobloke said:
From
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
Well you did ask Alcohol tolerance/intolerance - what's the sciency bit?I don't drink much anymore (not that I'm old at all!) because I just don't deal with hangovers very well. They have lasted up to 3 days with me.
I find if you drink as much water as your body will allow before you go to sleep you wake up feeling a lot better.
It's all about your brain being dehydrated which of course effects most parts of your body - achy, headache, eyes blurred, no concentration, dizziness.
I find if you drink as much water as your body will allow before you go to sleep you wake up feeling a lot better.
It's all about your brain being dehydrated which of course effects most parts of your body - achy, headache, eyes blurred, no concentration, dizziness.
turbobloke said:
G_T said:
TWSTEEL said:
turbobloke said:
From
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0847/is_/ai...
The processes of alcohol tolerance and dependence - Special Focus: Alcohol and the Brain
Alcohol Health & Research World, Spring, 1990 by R. Adron Harris, Karl J. Buck
Well you did ask Alcohol tolerance/intolerance - what's the sciency bit?In terms of new information (and to the best of my knowledge), the key ideas you've referenced remain largely unchanged, it's just that pharmacogenetics has moved on significantly in the last few years with a much greater understanding of the Cytochrome p450 enzyme family (CYP450). This isn't mentioned sufficiently in the paper and it is highly significant as it's these variations that are often believed to cause the different effects in individuals from medications (and drugs). For example the pain killer "Cocodamol" is a Morphine derivative but ~40% of Caucasians cannot metabolise it making it completely useless to them.
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