Salary Perceptions

[diesel head]

Following on from the Vets thread, it seems that people make an assumption about how much the professions actually earn. I am in my final 6th year of studying architecture, when I tell people what I do they say "ooohh you will be loaded when you finish" well (assuming I can get a job) the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

So what would you have thought that, a newly qualified, Vet, Doctor, Solicitor, Architect etc would earn?

Perhaps the professionals could fill in the gaps how much does a newly qualified member of your profession actually earn?

[Silver993tt]

diesel head said:

the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

Yes but I'm sure you have little or no real world experience, so 25k is very good IMO.

[HundredthIdiot]

Starting salary is probably the least important criteria when choosing a career.

Unless you have a very short life expectancy.

[Orb the Impaler]

As I mentioned on the vets thread, my dad was a vet and retired a few years ago. Back when he started (early 60s) and doing what he did (mix of large and small animals, Lancashire farms) it was a very prosperous job and we were by most standards pretty affluent.

However from the mid 80s or so onwards competition got really fierce and, if anything, income definitely went down. A lot of people ask me why I've not followed him into his practice and the pure and simple reason is that I wouldn't make enough money these days - certainly not in terms of academic and then actual work done in respect of actual income earned.

I actually went into IT contracting which is all I've ever done and hopefully all I'll ever do; it gives me pretty well the best return in terms of £ in relation to hours worked, zero responsibility, 9 to 5 and is utterly flexible.

[Papoo]

diesel head said:

Following on from the Vets thread, it seems that people make an assumption about how much the professions actually earn. I am in my final 6th year of studying architecture, when I tell people what I do they say "ooohh you will be loaded when you finish" well (assuming I can get a job) the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

So what would you have thought that, a newly qualified, Vet, Doctor, Solicitor, Architect etc would earn?

Perhaps the professionals could fill in the gaps how much does a newly qualified member of your profession actually earn?

First off, congratulations on getting towards the end of such an educational pipeline.

For me - in the UK - Airline pilot, on jets, typically 35k starting. Some just upwards of 40, many in the early 30's. 100k is around the tpo increment for captain, however one can improve this by being responsible for training, etc.

My brother is a newly qualified solicitor. After his degree, he did his training contract in a fairly reputable firm in Newcastle, for two years. His salaries were 15k and 17.5k! Then said firm offered him a permanent position on 28k. Shocking. Anyhow, he upped sticks and moved down to London, and is on circa 60k, but that's a top-100 firm, and he's in London. Not massive cash, for sure. Undoubtedly, a few years of hard work will see him as a partner, and probably a matching paycheck, however, most 'professional careers' pay below what the layman would assume during the early years.

[diesel head]

Silver993tt said:

diesel head said:

the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

Yes but I'm sure you have little or no real world experience, so 25k is very good IMO.

Part of our training does involve at least a year working in an architects office, however of course you are correct. What I was getting at though is that the perception of what I will earn when I tell others what I do is often much higher than that.

[Silver993tt]

Orb the Impaler said:

I actually went into IT contracting which is all I've ever done and hopefully all I'll ever do; it gives me pretty well the best return in terms of £ in relation to hours worked, zero responsibility, 9 to 5 and is utterly flexible.

and what about actually enjoying your job, a thing called job satisfaction? zero responsibility sounds completely boring IMO.

[Papoo]

Silver993tt said:

Orb the Impaler said:

I actually went into IT contracting which is all I've ever done and hopefully all I'll ever do; it gives me pretty well the best return in terms of £ in relation to hours worked, zero responsibility, 9 to 5 and is utterly flexible.

and what about actually enjoying your job, a thing called job satisfaction? zero responsibility sounds completely boring IMO.

My thoughts, too. To each their own, and all that..

[Simond001]

diesel head said:

Silver993tt said:

diesel head said:

the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

Yes but I'm sure you have little or no real world experience, so 25k is very good IMO.

Part of our training does involve at least a year working in an architects office, however of course you are correct. What I was getting at though is that the perception of what I will earn when I tell others what I do is often much higher than that.

You are stilla trainee though, and therefore should be paid as such.

To pay higher than the national average income for someone with no ral life experience is absurd.

[Orb the Impaler]

Silver993tt said:

Orb the Impaler said:

I actually went into IT contracting which is all I've ever done and hopefully all I'll ever do; it gives me pretty well the best return in terms of £ in relation to hours worked, zero responsibility, 9 to 5 and is utterly flexible.

and what about actually enjoying your job, a thing called job satisfaction? zero responsibility sounds completely boring IMO.

Sorry, I'm being a bit non-specific and not expressing myself properly here. By "zero responsibility" I mean having to deal with staff training type issues, promotions, office politics, redundancy threats etc IYSWIM: what I mean is that I come, do what I'm paid to do (perhaps a bit more if I'm lucky) and leave.

I take responsibility for what I do being good which is very creative/problem solving stuff and, I like to think (and my client list (many of who are repeat visits) bears me out on this) that I am very good at what I do. I certainly enjoy it and it's not boring.

[HundredthIdiot]

Orb the Impaler said:

By "zero responsibility" I mean having to deal with staff training type issues, promotions, office politics, redundancy threats etc IYSWIM: what I mean is that I come, do what I'm paid to do (perhaps a bit more if I'm lucky) and leave.

I take responsibility for what I do being good which is very creative/problem solving stuff and, I like to think (and my client list (many of who are repeat visits) bears me out on this) that I am very good at what I do. I certainly enjoy it and it's not boring.

You presumably face termination threats, they're just not called redundancy

Contracting is just a state of mind. Permies are really just contractors with different terms of employment. When I was permie, I had a "two year rule" and never stayed in a job longer than that.

Some people actually enjoy office politics. Presumably you don't, 'cos you're a geek.

[_Batty_]

Silver993tt said:

diesel head said:

the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

Yes but I'm sure you have little or no real world experience, so 25k is very good IMO.

low blow, such a low blow....

[Sam_68]

Silver993tt said:

diesel head said:

the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

Yes but I'm sure you have little or no real world experience, so 25k is very good IMO.

I have been responsible for the employment and management of many recently qualified Architects. I can confirm that £25K is very good indeed, for their actual usefulness and ability.

No fault of their own, but you need quite a lot of practical experience before you stop being a liability and actually become an asset to your company. My current personal Design & Planning Assistant has 4 years experience, earns £30K + company car + petrol and is still little more than a glorified CAD-monkey whose work I have to check thoroughly before it goes out.

And she's the best I've had by some considerable margin... some of them are so fking useless that it's difficult to believe they ever got past A-levels, let alone qualified as an Architect!

[Papoo]

Simond001 said:

diesel head said:

Silver993tt said:

diesel head said:

the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

Yes but I'm sure you have little or no real world experience, so 25k is very good IMO.

Part of our training does involve at least a year working in an architects office, however of course you are correct. What I was getting at though is that the perception of what I will earn when I tell others what I do is often much higher than that.

You are stilla trainee though, and therefore should be paid as such.

To pay higher than the national average income for someone with no ral life experience is absurd.

Not sure I agree with you entirely, there. Supply and demand is all it is. Oddly, there is obviously a reasonable supply of architects willing to undergo such a long, arduous process. There aren't enough lawyers who are both sufficiently capable and willing to sell their souls, to work for the large US law firms in London. Hence a starting salary of £110,000.

[Silver993tt]

_Batty_ said:

Silver993tt said:

diesel head said:

the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

Yes but I'm sure you have little or no real world experience, so 25k is very good IMO.

low blow, such a low blow....

Why? I was serious. In my company I won't take anybody on unless they have had a minimum of 10 years contiguous experience in the discipline required. We also follow up what's written on a CV, calling up previous employers etc (which I know very few others do). If someone doesn't like that, then fine it's their decision/choice but there's always lots to choose from in the queue behind.

Edited by Silver993tt on Tuesday 6th January 18:38

[elster]

Simond001 said:

diesel head said:

Silver993tt said:

diesel head said:

the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

Yes but I'm sure you have little or no real world experience, so 25k is very good IMO.

Part of our training does involve at least a year working in an architects office, however of course you are correct. What I was getting at though is that the perception of what I will earn when I tell others what I do is often much higher than that.

You are stilla trainee though, and therefore should be paid as such.

To pay higher than the national average income for someone with no real life experience is absurd.

Not really that absurd. Well I don't think so.

I earned a similar amount as an apprentice, I was worked like a slave.

[raf_gti]

The military to me has a strange perception, on one hand you have the Privates in the Army fighting in Afghan/Iraq for perhaps 16K a year but the reality is they are often of low (on paper)intelligence and would perhaps otherwise be unemployed or working in a factory, onthe other hand fast forward 6 years and the Private may now be promoted and earning 30K, have little out-goings compared to a civvie and be doing a job which involves shouting at people, running around and having no chance of being fired.

[Silver993tt]

elster said:

Simond001 said:

diesel head said:

Silver993tt said:

diesel head said:

the average salary for a part 2 architect (pre professional exams) is around 20-25K a newly qualified Architect will earn around 25-30K hardly huge salaries when you consider the 7 years (at least) of training.

Yes but I'm sure you have little or no real world experience, so 25k is very good IMO.

Part of our training does involve at least a year working in an architects office, however of course you are correct. What I was getting at though is that the perception of what I will earn when I tell others what I do is often much higher than that.

You are stilla trainee though, and therefore should be paid as such.

To pay higher than the national average income for someone with no real life experience is absurd.

Not really that absurd. Well I don't think so.

I earned a similar amount as an apprentice, I was worked like a slave.

In the past I discussed the issue of trainees (out of college/study) with a number of large companies taking on IT graduates. The general consensus was that for the first 3 years, the cost to the company was between 3-4 times the salary they paid the individual. This was taking into account training, annual leave, sick leave, time taken out by more senior personnel to mentor, physical company infrastructure etc. They also pointed out the number who left within the 3 years, who just took the training off the company and departed. A number of these companies put in place a clause in the contract to these employees whereby they had to pay back any training costs should they leave on their own accord within the first 2 years, which I fully agreed with. After all, it's a huge loss to the company for the first 3 years and they quite rightly should expect something back for their investment. It's one reason why we don't take on graduates without any experience in our company, we just couldn't afford the risk.

Edited by Silver993tt on Tuesday 6th January 18:54

[drfrank]

The doctors' pay scales are below:

http://careers.bmj.com/careers/static/advice-salar...

(I think these are basic, on-call pay to be added I think)

[Steve996]

In the offshore oil and gas game our newly qualified trainee technicians (4 years training) generally go offshore on an improver programme for a further 2 years. During this time they usually work 2 weeks offshore (12-14 hr shifts) and then get 3 weeks off and whilst in this phase they are paid about 30K ish at the start and about 37K at the end of their 2 years improvership. They then transition into the bottom technician band which is mid-40's. If they are any good and they started their training at about 16-17 then by the time they are 23 ish they will be on 50K + for working 147 days a year.