someone spoke the truth "Many civil servants 'deserve axe'
Discussion
Numorous Civil Servants I spoken to over the years know that once your in and as long as you don't rock the boat, you're basically made.
I've always wondered why car tax is not faded out and put on to fuel and the insurace companies issue a vehicle disk for as long as insurance and mot valid as in Ireland and lot's of civilised places...how many civil servant could be let go on that one alone,
Anyway http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7830521.stm
I've always wondered why car tax is not faded out and put on to fuel and the insurace companies issue a vehicle disk for as long as insurance and mot valid as in Ireland and lot's of civilised places...how many civil servant could be let go on that one alone,
Anyway http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7830521.stm
Not 100% about this. There are plenty of jobs in the civil service which are pretty stressful, and there are plenty of restructurings & redundancies that means your job isn't always safe.
There are also plenty of private companies you could describe in the same way, but you don't get a final salary pension.
I've always thought that the Fire Service is one of the biggest dosses around. Sure, you will be scraping people up off the mpotorway once a month, but in between that, not very much, and time to have a part time job too....
There are also plenty of private companies you could describe in the same way, but you don't get a final salary pension.
I've always thought that the Fire Service is one of the biggest dosses around. Sure, you will be scraping people up off the mpotorway once a month, but in between that, not very much, and time to have a part time job too....
Fair play to Lord Digby Jones for standing up and talking about teh elephant in the room.Lord Digby Jones said:
"I was amazed, quite frankly, at how many people deserved the sack and yet that was the one threat that they never ever worked under, because it doesn't exist."
I have always maintained that public sector workers should be expected to meet the very highest standards, since they are being paid by the public, to deliver services to the public. Why put up with incompetance or inefficiency?As regards the breadth and depth of the public sector, most areas of it are so large the right hand has no idea the left hand even exists. For example, why have income tax, national insurance and tax credits?
Edited by Digga on Friday 16th January 07:51
I used to work on a MOD site, the waste there was terrible. Contractors charging £60 to change a single light bulb (I use to shred all historical invoices worth up to £250,000) in the early 80's!
Yes restructuring happened as did redundancies, however the redundancies were a sham too. Where else can an unskilled worker be made redundant, get paid about £70,000 and get work two weeks later on the same site, with the same friends doing a slightly different job????
I also had three paid hour long tea breaks a day working for a max of two hours at a time (part of the airport emergency team and a helipad driver so needed regular rest to ensure wits were kept about us)
Quite honestly the government have always been seen as the golden goose. Any contractor will at least double his estimate when quoting for a government contract.
Yes restructuring happened as did redundancies, however the redundancies were a sham too. Where else can an unskilled worker be made redundant, get paid about £70,000 and get work two weeks later on the same site, with the same friends doing a slightly different job????
I also had three paid hour long tea breaks a day working for a max of two hours at a time (part of the airport emergency team and a helipad driver so needed regular rest to ensure wits were kept about us)
Quite honestly the government have always been seen as the golden goose. Any contractor will at least double his estimate when quoting for a government contract.
Digga said:
As regards the breadth and depth of the public sector, most areas of it are so large the right hand has no idea the left hand even exists. For example, why have income tax, national insurance and tax credits?
Precisely so it is difficult to say exactly what the "average" rate of taxation is. Any figures you can construct are only ever theoretical.Also bear in mind that we have massive indirect and stealth taxation because Brown and Blair promised not to raise tax in 1997. WHat they meant was "we won;t touch income tax rates but we'll be thieving every last penny off you through any other means we can think of". Sadly the punters didn't really clock that at the time....
I believe that where the "tax book" used to be one volume, its now three volumes & printed on thinner paper in smaller typeface. You can thank Gordon for that one as well.
freecar said:
Quite honestly the government have always been seen as the golden goose. Any contractor will at least double his estimate when quoting for a government contract.
Not 100% true - on many areas dealing with teh Governement is like having your teeth pulled & requires the lowest and most aggressive pricing. That tends to apply specifically to tangible stuff (office equipment etc). Granted, service based stuff they get fleeced for (I think mostly because they don't really understand what they are buying half the time).Iain328 said:
Digga said:
As regards the breadth and depth of the public sector, most areas of it are so large the right hand has no idea the left hand even exists. For example, why have income tax, national insurance and tax credits?
Precisely so it is difficult to say exactly what the "average" rate of taxation is. Any figures you can construct are only ever theoretical.Also bear in mind that we have massive indirect and stealth taxation because Brown and Blair promised not to raise tax in 1997. WHat they meant was "we won;t touch income tax rates but we'll be thieving every last penny off you through any other means we can think of". Sadly the punters didn't really clock that at the time....
I believe that where the "tax book" used to be one volume, its now three volumes & printed on thinner paper in smaller typeface. You can thank Gordon for that one as well.
t of a PM loves to trot-out but has no idea what it truly means?Iain328 said:
freecar said:
Quite honestly the government have always been seen as the golden goose. Any contractor will at least double his estimate when quoting for a government contract.
Not 100% true - on many areas dealing with teh Governement is like having your teeth pulled & requires the lowest and most aggressive pricing. That tends to apply specifically to tangible stuff (office equipment etc). Granted, service based stuff they get fleeced for (I think mostly because they don't really understand what they are buying half the time).ks, I am quoting for a job at the council, now I have done work for them before, so they will get a quote off me and if it is good then they will go with me, they probably won;t get others in as they know my work. The last job they were under extreme pressure and I turned round the job in 3 weeks as opposed to the 5-6 they gave me in the beggining.Now not getting other quotes might seem stupid but I am a know quantity with them and they know they can ask for extras ( quicker time, last minute changes etc ), at no extra cost or if there is it will be reasonable.
the main thing they are looking for is the job to be done, once, thats it, first time sorted, no follow ups. They realise that that will with me and therefore I will take in to account the scale of the job, and charge them top dollar labour charge ( they will get their moneys worth ) and try and discount heavily the items that don;t cost me anything to make ( in this case it will be leather as I am a upholsterer ) so I will only make £20-30 on a hide of leather that costs me £120, normally charge £200+ but 30-40 hides and that is easy money and it helps secure the contract.
They aren't looking for best price but best service as well, I bet I could add another couple of grand on to the estimate and they would probably still go with me, but they will question everything and next time I won;t be just the automatic choice.
People who hand in ridiculous quotes will have worked for them in the past and they will feel safe charging that, normally knowing that it is so hard to do work for the council.
Double very doubtful, but +30% I could see but wouldn't think this as being massively "over charging" based on what I have experienced being asked of me.
Edited by Tampon on Thursday 15th January 15:29
snotsnfarts said:
I've always wondered why car tax is not faded out and put on to fuel and the insurace companies issue a vehicle disk for as long as insurance and mot valid as in Ireland and lot's of civilised places...how many civil servant could be let go on that one alone,
This is a genius idea... is fairer to those that don't drive as much too.Although Nu Labia would get the balance all wrong, they'd add 50p to fuel or something daft
If I was you, I'd take another look at what you have just posted.
Comments like that are not big and certainly not clever.
Comments like that are not big and certainly not clever.
prand said:
Not 100% about this. There are plenty of jobs in the civil service which are pretty stressful, and there are plenty of restructurings & redundancies that means your job isn't always safe.
There are also plenty of private companies you could describe in the same way, but you don't get a final salary pension.
I've always thought that the Fire Service is one of the biggest dosses around. Sure, you will be scraping people up off the mpotorway once a month, but in between that, not very much, and time to have a part time job too....
There are also plenty of private companies you could describe in the same way, but you don't get a final salary pension.
I've always thought that the Fire Service is one of the biggest dosses around. Sure, you will be scraping people up off the mpotorway once a month, but in between that, not very much, and time to have a part time job too....
Tampon said:
Iain328 said:
freecar said:
Quite honestly the government have always been seen as the golden goose. Any contractor will at least double his estimate when quoting for a government contract.
Not 100% true - on many areas dealing with teh Governement is like having your teeth pulled & requires the lowest and most aggressive pricing. That tends to apply specifically to tangible stuff (office equipment etc). Granted, service based stuff they get fleeced for (I think mostly because they don't really understand what they are buying half the time).ks, I am quoting for a job at the council, now I have done work for them before, so they will get a quote off me and if it is good then they will go with me, they probably won;t get others in as they know my work. The last job they were under extreme pressure and I turned round the job in 3 weeks as opposed to the 5-6 they gave me in the beggining.Now not getting other quotes might seem stupid but I am a know quantity with them and they know they can ask for extras ( quicker time, last minute changes etc ), at no extra cost or if there is it will be reasonable.
the main thing they are looking for is the job to be done, once, thats it, first time sorted, no follow ups. They realise that that will with me and therefore I will take in to account the scale of the job, and charge them top dollar labour charge ( they will get their moneys worth ) and try and discount heavily the items that don;t cost me anything to make ( in this case it will be leather as I am a upholsterer ) so I will only make £20-30 on a hide of leather that costs me £120, normally charge £200+ but 30-40 hides and that is easy money and it helps secure the contract.
They aren't looking for best price but best service as well, I bet I could add another couple of grand on to the estimate and they would probably still go with me, but they will question everything and next time I won;t be just the automatic choice.
People who hand in ridiculous quotes will have worked for them in the past and they will feel safe charging that, normally knowing that it is so hard to do work for the council.
Double very doubtful, but +30% I could see but wouldn't think this as being massively "over charging" based on what I have experienced being asked of me.
Edited by Tampon on Thursday 15th January 15:29
Fit (not supply) one 60 watt lightbulb in a residential quarter (so no stupidly high ceiling) £60
Fit (not supply) one bathroom mirror £180
multiply these bills by all the quarters on site and all the lightbulbs etc on site and you have one huge budget wasted.
In one day a general contractor could have invoiced the MOD for over £1000 for doing general handyman tasks!
If of course you can justify why your money was spent like this I am all ears!
Maxf said:
Tampon said:
in this case it will be leather as I am a upholsterer
Do many councils need the services of a leather upholsterer? What kind of work do you do for them?Serious question.
Have done work for NHS waiting rooms ( cushions benches) local sports centres etc etc All good work for me as I know they pay, i can charge full wack and won;t get haggled/messed around at the end, now I will have repeat business ( large contracts as well when compared to domestic work )
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