Italian Job Conundrum is 'Solved'
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7845533.stm
The Royal Society of Chemistry has announced the winner of a competition to solve the conundrum at the end of the iconic UK film The Italian Job.
In the film, the robbers' coach almost drives off a cliff, ending up balanced precariously on the edge, with the gang at one end and their gold at the other.
The RSC asked for ideas to get the gold off the coach before it tips over.
John Godwin from Surrey came up with the winning idea which involves draining fuel from the vehicle.
In the conclusion to the 1969 movie, Charlie Croker, played by Michael Caine, tries to reach the gold, but as he does so, the coach tips up dangerously.
Then gang leader Croker turns around and says: "Hang on a minute lads, I've got a great idea."
So what was the idea?
Some 2,000 members of the public put forward their own theories. Many of them were from children.
Twelve-year-old Thomas Nixon's homonym solution was for the gang to sing until they all got "frogs" in their throats. The frogs start to jump up and down which rocks the bus. They use the "rocks" to weigh down the end of the bus.
Eventually, the gang's throats become sore from the singing. And with the "saw" they cut the gold bullion in half. Because two halves make a whole - the gang could sneak the gold through the "hole".
But the winner, John Godwin from Surrey, had a more practical solution involving a three-stage process.
First, the coach needed to be stabilised. This involved smashing out the windows on the part of the coach overlooking the drop and smashing them inward at the front end to improve the weight ratio slightly.
One of the bullion raiders is then lowered outside and deflates the wheels to stop the coach from rocking.
Second, its weight distribution needs to be changed, particularly over the rear of the coach which is overlooking the drop. This involves emptying the fuel tank which John Godwin discovered was at the rear of the coach. This, he estimated, would contain 140kg of fuel.
Third, he would allow a member of the team to leave the coach and bring rocks in to the front of the vehicle to ensure it was stable and the gold could be removed.
"There're several sheets of maths here," said John Godwin.
"It was a good long day with a calculator. It's more than 20 years since I saw the film - I remember thinking there must be some way of getting that gold off the bus.
"I always had an idea of how they might solve this - so when the Royal Society of Chemistry put this out to the public as a competition it seemed like the ideal opportunity to see if it would really work or to see if it was hot air."
The Royal Society of Chemistry has announced the winner of a competition to solve the conundrum at the end of the iconic UK film The Italian Job.
In the film, the robbers' coach almost drives off a cliff, ending up balanced precariously on the edge, with the gang at one end and their gold at the other.
The RSC asked for ideas to get the gold off the coach before it tips over.
John Godwin from Surrey came up with the winning idea which involves draining fuel from the vehicle.
In the conclusion to the 1969 movie, Charlie Croker, played by Michael Caine, tries to reach the gold, but as he does so, the coach tips up dangerously.
Then gang leader Croker turns around and says: "Hang on a minute lads, I've got a great idea."
So what was the idea?
Some 2,000 members of the public put forward their own theories. Many of them were from children.
Twelve-year-old Thomas Nixon's homonym solution was for the gang to sing until they all got "frogs" in their throats. The frogs start to jump up and down which rocks the bus. They use the "rocks" to weigh down the end of the bus.
Eventually, the gang's throats become sore from the singing. And with the "saw" they cut the gold bullion in half. Because two halves make a whole - the gang could sneak the gold through the "hole".
But the winner, John Godwin from Surrey, had a more practical solution involving a three-stage process.
First, the coach needed to be stabilised. This involved smashing out the windows on the part of the coach overlooking the drop and smashing them inward at the front end to improve the weight ratio slightly.
One of the bullion raiders is then lowered outside and deflates the wheels to stop the coach from rocking.
Second, its weight distribution needs to be changed, particularly over the rear of the coach which is overlooking the drop. This involves emptying the fuel tank which John Godwin discovered was at the rear of the coach. This, he estimated, would contain 140kg of fuel.
Third, he would allow a member of the team to leave the coach and bring rocks in to the front of the vehicle to ensure it was stable and the gold could be removed.
"There're several sheets of maths here," said John Godwin.
"It was a good long day with a calculator. It's more than 20 years since I saw the film - I remember thinking there must be some way of getting that gold off the bus.
"I always had an idea of how they might solve this - so when the Royal Society of Chemistry put this out to the public as a competition it seemed like the ideal opportunity to see if it would really work or to see if it was hot air."
Dupont666 said:
Thought the original idea was just to leave the engine running until the fuel had run out and thus someone could move down and get the gold?
Personally I would have jumped out of the bus, let the rest plummet with tha coach and then climb down and recover the lot for myself! 
My bold
Now the light one tries to either retrieve one case of gold at a time. moving it to the front of the coach as ballast or tried to use the shoe lace rope to pull a case forward.
Alternatively The light one, possibly "Arfa" could be excused to collect rocks provided that the weight of all the guys on the front bumper was sufficient.
Failing any of the above EVERYBODY stands on the front bumper and on the count of 3 steps off, allowing the coach to fall, and they could retrieve the gold at the bottom of the hill and hide it until they can arrange transport.
John Goodwin said:
But the winner, John Godwin from Surrey, had a more practical solution involving a three-stage process.
First, the coach needed to be stabilised. This involved smashing out the windows on the part of the coach overlooking the drop with what? and going to the back was making it tilt worseand smashing them inward at the front end to improve the weight ratio slightly. unless you could move glass from the rear to the front this would make no/little difference
One of the bullion raiders is then lowered outside and deflates the wheels to stop the coach from rocking. Was there a rope? the tyres were not on the ground as the coach was rocking on its belly so letting air out of the tyres make no difference
Second, its weight distribution needs to be changed, particularly over the rear of the coach which is overlooking the drop. This involves emptying the fuel tank which John Godwin discovered was at the rear of the coach. This, he estimated, would contain 140kg of fuel. How do you get to the tank which would have been attached to the outside of the chassis?
Third, he would allow a member of the team to leave the coach and bring rocks in to the front of the vehicle to ensure it was stable and the gold could be removed. [b]So far he has not stopped the coach rocking and made enough difference to allow anyone out without it tipping over the edge
Charlie said " and don't no one get out that bloody door neither"[/b]
What They should have done is all taken off their shoe laces and tied them together then all, except the lightest, stepped out and shuffled along the front bumper adding more weight as far forward as possible.First, the coach needed to be stabilised. This involved smashing out the windows on the part of the coach overlooking the drop with what? and going to the back was making it tilt worseand smashing them inward at the front end to improve the weight ratio slightly. unless you could move glass from the rear to the front this would make no/little difference
One of the bullion raiders is then lowered outside and deflates the wheels to stop the coach from rocking. Was there a rope? the tyres were not on the ground as the coach was rocking on its belly so letting air out of the tyres make no difference
Second, its weight distribution needs to be changed, particularly over the rear of the coach which is overlooking the drop. This involves emptying the fuel tank which John Godwin discovered was at the rear of the coach. This, he estimated, would contain 140kg of fuel. How do you get to the tank which would have been attached to the outside of the chassis?
Third, he would allow a member of the team to leave the coach and bring rocks in to the front of the vehicle to ensure it was stable and the gold could be removed. [b]So far he has not stopped the coach rocking and made enough difference to allow anyone out without it tipping over the edge
Charlie said " and don't no one get out that bloody door neither"[/b]
Now the light one tries to either retrieve one case of gold at a time. moving it to the front of the coach as ballast or tried to use the shoe lace rope to pull a case forward.
Alternatively The light one, possibly "Arfa" could be excused to collect rocks provided that the weight of all the guys on the front bumper was sufficient.
Failing any of the above EVERYBODY stands on the front bumper and on the count of 3 steps off, allowing the coach to fall, and they could retrieve the gold at the bottom of the hill and hide it until they can arrange transport.
Edited by odyssey2200 on Friday 23 January 14:10
Ganglandboss said:
Dupont666 said:
Thought the original idea was just to leave the engine running until the fuel had run out and thus someone could move down and get the gold?
Personally I would have jumped out of the bus, let the rest plummet with tha coach and then climb down and recover the lot for myself! 
odyssey2200 said:
My bold
When all the gold is at the front, handball it into the Thames, everyone jumps out and the bus can crash over the edge.
Job done!
John Goodwin said:
Third, he would allow a member of the team to leave the coach and bring rocks in to the front of the vehicle to ensure it was stable and the gold could be removed. [b]So far he has not stopped the coach rocking and made enough difference to allow anyone out without it tipping over the edge
Charlie said " and don't no one get out that bloody door neither"[/b]
Indeed, if it was possible to allow one of the team to exit the coach, the most sensible thing to do would have been to leg it down the mountain and go and get the Thames van they ditched, bring it back to the coach and rope it to the front bumper. The weight would have been sufficient to offset the lightest person to stretch out and pull to gold toward the front of the bus, bit by bit.Charlie said " and don't no one get out that bloody door neither"[/b]
When all the gold is at the front, handball it into the Thames, everyone jumps out and the bus can crash over the edge.
Job done!
I thought SimonV8sters idea was the among the best:
SimonV8ster said:
I wish I'd seen this competition.
My entry would have been -
Everybody s
ts themselves and then throws all the st to the front of the coach at the coach driver, thus moving more weight to the front and showing their displeasure to the driver.
With the weight now shifted it buys them more time and the stench soon attracts the local people to give them a hand. They are then pulled to safety by donkeys and local peasants who are then rewarded with a gift of a gold bar.
My entry would have been -
Everybody s
ts themselves and then throws all the st to the front of the coach at the coach driver, thus moving more weight to the front and showing their displeasure to the driver. With the weight now shifted it buys them more time and the stench soon attracts the local people to give them a hand. They are then pulled to safety by donkeys and local peasants who are then rewarded with a gift of a gold bar.
odyssey2200 said:
My bold
Because there's an internal hatch to the fuel tank apparently.John Goodwin said:
But the winner, John Godwin from Surrey, had a more practical solution involving a three-stage process.
Second, its weight distribution needs to be changed, particularly over the rear of the coach which is overlooking the drop. This involves emptying the fuel tank which John Godwin discovered was at the rear of the coach. This, he estimated, would contain 140kg of fuel. How do you get to the tank which would have been attached to the outside of the chassis?
Second, its weight distribution needs to be changed, particularly over the rear of the coach which is overlooking the drop. This involves emptying the fuel tank which John Godwin discovered was at the rear of the coach. This, he estimated, would contain 140kg of fuel. How do you get to the tank which would have been attached to the outside of the chassis?
odyssey2200 said:
My bold
The air would also having some mass, so reducing the mass at the front. The improved leverage at the front by doing the windows thing would then be negated by removing the mass of the tyre air at the front.John Goodwin said:
But the winner, John Godwin from Surrey, had a more practical solution involving a three-stage process.
First, the coach needed to be stabilised. This involved smashing out the windows on the part of the coach overlooking the drop with what? and going to the back was making it tilt worseand smashing them inward at the front end to improve the weight ratio slightly. unless you could move glass from the rear to the front this would make no/little difference
One of the bullion raiders is then lowered outside and deflates the wheels to stop the coach from rocking. Was there a rope? the tyres were not on the ground as the coach was rocking on its belly so letting air out of the tyres make no difference
Second, its weight distribution needs to be changed, particularly over the rear of the coach which is overlooking the drop. This involves emptying the fuel tank which John Godwin discovered was at the rear of the coach. This, he estimated, would contain 140kg of fuel. How do you get to the tank which would have been attached to the outside of the chassis?
Third, he would allow a member of the team to leave the coach and bring rocks in to the front of the vehicle to ensure it was stable and the gold could be removed. [b]So far he has not stopped the coach rocking and made enough difference to allow anyone out without it tipping over the edge
Charlie said " and don't no one get out that bloody door neither"[/b]
First, the coach needed to be stabilised. This involved smashing out the windows on the part of the coach overlooking the drop with what? and going to the back was making it tilt worseand smashing them inward at the front end to improve the weight ratio slightly. unless you could move glass from the rear to the front this would make no/little difference
One of the bullion raiders is then lowered outside and deflates the wheels to stop the coach from rocking. Was there a rope? the tyres were not on the ground as the coach was rocking on its belly so letting air out of the tyres make no difference
Second, its weight distribution needs to be changed, particularly over the rear of the coach which is overlooking the drop. This involves emptying the fuel tank which John Godwin discovered was at the rear of the coach. This, he estimated, would contain 140kg of fuel. How do you get to the tank which would have been attached to the outside of the chassis?
Third, he would allow a member of the team to leave the coach and bring rocks in to the front of the vehicle to ensure it was stable and the gold could be removed. [b]So far he has not stopped the coach rocking and made enough difference to allow anyone out without it tipping over the edge
Charlie said " and don't no one get out that bloody door neither"[/b]
To be fair though, the fuel thing. There would have been a line going to the engine at the front, and the front was up in the air making it easy to get to. Provided you could get someone out you could drain the tank. I doubt you could syphon it out, so you'd have to use the buses fuel pump.
I don't agree with any of the suggestions. Getting the gold out by ruining the bus isn't really a solution. You're then stuck in the middle of the alps with no way of arranging transport for you or the gold. No mobiles back in the 60s, and I bet passers-by would have been few and far between as well. Personally I would have just let the gold fall to the valley floor, go back down in the bus and collect it.
Dupont666 said:
Thought the original idea was just to leave the engine running until the fuel had run out and thus someone could move down and get the gold?
it was. the film was originally planned as a 2 parter, with the second half being the recovery of the gold and escape from the mafia. this has been around for an absolute age. CY88 said:
odyssey2200 said:
Second, its weight distribution needs to be changed, particularly over the rear of the coach which is overlooking the drop. This involves emptying the fuel tank which John Godwin discovered was at the rear of the coach. This, he estimated, would contain 140kg of fuel. How do you get to the tank which would have been attached to the outside of the chassis?
Run the engine perhaps? The key is still in the front is it not? bloody smart arse! haven't you got a tunnel to finish
bet thats where all the bloody gold is anyway, grumble, mumble
Edited by odyssey2200 on Friday 23 January 15:08
hang on.
i am positive that a PHer has the exact same type of coach used in the film which is even painted in the right colour scheme. i can lay my hands on some lead and gold paint, and know all the words to 'the south preservation society'. these chemists should be put in their place with a PH official scientific expedition!
i am positive that a PHer has the exact same type of coach used in the film which is even painted in the right colour scheme. i can lay my hands on some lead and gold paint, and know all the words to 'the south preservation society'. these chemists should be put in their place with a PH official scientific expedition!
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