Economy 7 timeswitches - do these exist???
Discussion
Aarrrrgh - this is really bugging me - at Paolow towers ive got economy 7 night storage heating and an enourmous copper cylinder with an immersion unit that makes hot water.
A fairly obvious way to save a few quid then is to use the economy 7 electric to heat the water but im buggered if i can find a way of doing it.
Ive two separate meters and the economy is on a different circuit to the normal electric. I know timers exist that would work with a single input channel - ie - one flavour of electricity and i also know mechanisms exist that will take BOTH feeds and select the most appropriate automatically.
What doesnt exist however seems to be a box that will allow for timed water heating using the economy 7 while still allowing a 'boost' function in case i want a bath or whatever when the hot water has gone.
the company Horstmann seems to be the closest match and the timers are available readily. Unfortunately, as above, they are either timers or constantly on and just switch electricity sources. Does what im after even exist???? Help!
A fairly obvious way to save a few quid then is to use the economy 7 electric to heat the water but im buggered if i can find a way of doing it.
Ive two separate meters and the economy is on a different circuit to the normal electric. I know timers exist that would work with a single input channel - ie - one flavour of electricity and i also know mechanisms exist that will take BOTH feeds and select the most appropriate automatically.
What doesnt exist however seems to be a box that will allow for timed water heating using the economy 7 while still allowing a 'boost' function in case i want a bath or whatever when the hot water has gone.
the company Horstmann seems to be the closest match and the timers are available readily. Unfortunately, as above, they are either timers or constantly on and just switch electricity sources. Does what im after even exist???? Help!
Didn't know E7 worked like that with separate meters - does the "normal" meter still run for other elec use during the night?
Our house has a dual meter with two readouts and it flips from normal to E7 driven by an attached clock (newer systems use a radio receiver and flip based on a transmitted signal on radio 4, I think). So everything is at the lower rate between certain hours.
I did think that in houses with separate wring for storage heaters it was usual for the hot water to be wired into the same circuit.
Our house has a dual meter with two readouts and it flips from normal to E7 driven by an attached clock (newer systems use a radio receiver and flip based on a transmitted signal on radio 4, I think). So everything is at the lower rate between certain hours.
I did think that in houses with separate wring for storage heaters it was usual for the hot water to be wired into the same circuit.
Are you sure they are two seperate meters and not a dual meter coupled to an old type time switch.
The time switch will change the dual meter over to econ 7 and back again.
If so, all you require is an ordinary 24 hour Immersion Timer.
All electric consumed during the econ 7 time will be at the lower rate including you heating the tank up.
Just set the Immersion heater timer to coincide with the Econ 7 time switch, if you need to top up later in the day you can over-ride the timer but the water will be heating on full price.
There are fangdangly timers with boost controls etc but the cheap 24 hr ones suffice.
HTH.
The time switch will change the dual meter over to econ 7 and back again.
If so, all you require is an ordinary 24 hour Immersion Timer.
All electric consumed during the econ 7 time will be at the lower rate including you heating the tank up.
Just set the Immersion heater timer to coincide with the Econ 7 time switch, if you need to top up later in the day you can over-ride the timer but the water will be heating on full price.
There are fangdangly timers with boost controls etc but the cheap 24 hr ones suffice.
HTH.
I do remember the "white" meter systems used for E7 so there were 2 separate meters but it never really occured to me that both would run at the same time, although, thinking about it, I guess they must if the white meter had separate wiring to storage heaters.
I am surprised that the water heating isn't already connected into the same system.
I am surprised that the water heating isn't already connected into the same system.
Edited by Deva Link on Sunday 25th January 22:33
Gsw500 said:
Are you sure they are two seperate meters and not a dual meter coupled to an old type time switch.
The time switch will change the dual meter over to econ 7 and back again.
If so, all you require is an ordinary 24 hour Immersion Timer.
All electric consumed during the econ 7 time will be at the lower rate including you heating the tank up.
Just set the Immersion heater timer to coincide with the Econ 7 time switch, if you need to top up later in the day you can over-ride the timer but the water will be heating on full price.
There are fangdangly timers with boost controls etc but the cheap 24 hr ones suffice.
HTH.
What he said. It is possible for it to be two separate meters, but that set up is fairly rare. You should have two boxes, one is the meter itself, the other either a timer or a radio teleswitch. As said, any selectable timer can do what you want, as all power goes on the night rate, not just the storage heater fuse board.The time switch will change the dual meter over to econ 7 and back again.
If so, all you require is an ordinary 24 hour Immersion Timer.
All electric consumed during the econ 7 time will be at the lower rate including you heating the tank up.
Just set the Immersion heater timer to coincide with the Econ 7 time switch, if you need to top up later in the day you can over-ride the timer but the water will be heating on full price.
There are fangdangly timers with boost controls etc but the cheap 24 hr ones suffice.
HTH.
ok, Ive had a look at my meter cupboard and have found the following:
Ive two meters and a timeswitch. The 'normal' meter spins all the time and powers everything in the flat apart from the heating.
between 11-7 the timeswitch activates the 'economy' electric which solely goes to the storage heaters which have no other means of switching them on/off or timing themselves. the timeswitch controls them completely.
In fact, now i think of it, in the summer months the economy meter doesnt move at all proving that it is solely used for the NSH circuit.
This doesnt really help me find what I want though
Any ideas?
Ive two meters and a timeswitch. The 'normal' meter spins all the time and powers everything in the flat apart from the heating.
between 11-7 the timeswitch activates the 'economy' electric which solely goes to the storage heaters which have no other means of switching them on/off or timing themselves. the timeswitch controls them completely.
In fact, now i think of it, in the summer months the economy meter doesnt move at all proving that it is solely used for the NSH circuit.
This doesnt really help me find what I want though
Any ideas?
paolow said:
between 11-7 the timeswitch activates the 'economy' electric which solely goes to the storage heaters
Would that not switch off everything else in the house including lights etc? Is your alarm clock mains fed? Does it still work, if so it's because it's probably fed off the Econ 7 leckypaolow said:
between 11-7 the timeswitch activates the 'economy' electric which solely goes to the storage heaters
Interesting, 8 hours at E7 rate. My meter switches everything at midnight GMT to the economy tarif and then back to normal at 07:00. When reading the meter it gives two separate figures (+ total and date & time). If I could sense the signal that switches the meter I could get rid of the timeswitch.Our big storage heater is used for cooking (Aga).
S6PNJ said:
paolow said:
between 11-7 the timeswitch activates the 'economy' electric which solely goes to the storage heaters
Would that not switch off everything else in the house including lights etc? Is your alarm clock mains fed? Does it still work, if so it's because it's probably fed off the Econ 7 leckyIt does seem off to me that other usage of electricity would therefore be measured by the normal meter and would be at standard rates - to me, this is the biggest advantage of our dual meter, everything we use during the night is at the lower rate.
I'm not sure, short of getting the E7 system ripped out, what the OP can do? Maybe it would be possible to get the immersion heater wiring changed over from the standard meter to the E7 meter? But there would need to be someway of circumventing the E7 timer to allow for boost operation, unless that's what the "boost" function on the Horstmann timer's is supposed to deal with - it's kind of clockwork thing which runs for an hour, maybe so you can't leave it on boost all the time.
Basically your all sort of right...
Eco7 first came out it was generally conceived for running storage heating hence independent wiring was installed for the heaters and hot water and this was then switched by a supplier timer in the meter. These days lots of things want to use the low rate such as dishwashers and washers, running 2 sets of wiring to each one makes no sense and people also may want to use these devices at peak rate on occasion. Hence the new situation where the meter meters the 2 rates and its down to the consumer to pick when to when to run there devices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_7
Eco7 first came out it was generally conceived for running storage heating hence independent wiring was installed for the heaters and hot water and this was then switched by a supplier timer in the meter. These days lots of things want to use the low rate such as dishwashers and washers, running 2 sets of wiring to each one makes no sense and people also may want to use these devices at peak rate on occasion. Hence the new situation where the meter meters the 2 rates and its down to the consumer to pick when to when to run there devices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_7
paolow said:
ok, Ive had a look at my meter cupboard and have found the following:
Ive two meters and a timeswitch. The 'normal' meter spins all the time and powers everything in the flat apart from the heating.
between 11-7 the timeswitch activates the 'economy' electric which solely goes to the storage heaters which have no other means of switching them on/off or timing themselves. the timeswitch controls them completely.
In fact, now i think of it, in the summer months the economy meter doesnt move at all proving that it is solely used for the NSH circuit.
This doesnt really help me find what I want though
Any ideas?
Depending upon how many storage heaters you've got, it's quite possible for the E7 meter to run on a different phase to the rest of the house to prevent overloading. Are there wires from the timer to the normal meter? If so, then you're ok to get a timer fitted and use the water heater during the E7 times and still benefit from cheap electricity, as everything in the house will be measured on the E7 tariff. This option will also give you the option of a boost. It can get tricky if you have one meter with a standard rate and one with E7, as you can often lose out/it costs more if you're not careful.Ive two meters and a timeswitch. The 'normal' meter spins all the time and powers everything in the flat apart from the heating.
between 11-7 the timeswitch activates the 'economy' electric which solely goes to the storage heaters which have no other means of switching them on/off or timing themselves. the timeswitch controls them completely.
In fact, now i think of it, in the summer months the economy meter doesnt move at all proving that it is solely used for the NSH circuit.
This doesnt really help me find what I want though
Any ideas?
Can you take a pic of your set up?
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[/URL]Thats a fecking mess....
I would contact your local supplier and ask for a meter upgrade.
Snake will know, but a new dual meter and radio teleswitch will fit on one corner of that board.
THEN. You can install the 24 hr immersion timer or any of the fangdangly ones for that matter.
Or get a sparky to wire a new E7 supply to your existing Immersion and fit an E7 dual timer.
I would contact your local supplier and ask for a meter upgrade.
Snake will know, but a new dual meter and radio teleswitch will fit on one corner of that board.
THEN. You can install the 24 hr immersion timer or any of the fangdangly ones for that matter.
Or get a sparky to wire a new E7 supply to your existing Immersion and fit an E7 dual timer.
Righto, as you probably already know, the bottom meter runs the main house wiring, and is a single rate meter. The top one, along with it's timeswitch, runs the heating on the E7 times. I'd get it changed as it's only the heating that will be on the E7 tariff, the house stuff will not be.
Whilst it is an odd way of wiring it in, all 3 of those black boxes can be replaced with a single digital meter that will also take up much less space, and give you a proper E7 meter too. I would also be tempted to ask them to install an isolator whilst they're in there, that way any sparky can upgrade the fuse boards/do anything they like to the wiring/wire your immersion in how ever you'd like.
Oh, new meter should look like this:
Whilst it is an odd way of wiring it in, all 3 of those black boxes can be replaced with a single digital meter that will also take up much less space, and give you a proper E7 meter too. I would also be tempted to ask them to install an isolator whilst they're in there, that way any sparky can upgrade the fuse boards/do anything they like to the wiring/wire your immersion in how ever you'd like.
Oh, new meter should look like this:
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