Letting Agents / legal question please
Discussion
I will explain the situation.
In November 08 we agreed to rent a house. A new kitchen was being fitted and we were told it would be finished when we moved in. It wasn't but we still moved in but had no kitchen for about a week as the "builder" was there still fitting the kitchen. We had to live in the front room for about a week and due to the dust, had to move our stuff to the upstairs. Anyway, this one man band of a builder carried on fitting the kitchen and appliances. It was really inconvenient as we had a 7 month old baby and I was boiling kettles in the front room for her.
Anyway at Christmas time, the builder packed up for christmas and we were told he would be back in the New Year to do the snags.
Now, I think the term snags is wrong here as there is still major work needed to be done and also, it has been left (in my view) in a pretty crap state. I will list the problems we have:
All of the plug sockets in the cupboards are not fixed to the wall so all the wires are hanging out the back - we have had the electrics trip on one day about 5 times. Admittedly, it has stopped recently but it seems it happens when we have too many electrical appliances on at once. We have told the agent but nothing has been done.
The kitchen cupboards, we feel, are fitted too low over the hob and actually overhang where the flames are (if you didn't have a pot on them) and heat up when you are cooking. I was frying some bacon and it spat out and the flames went up and actually put black soot over the corner of the kitchen cupboard. Also, the extractor hood is too narrow for the hob and it doesn't actually extract anything anywhere as it just goes into the wall.
This "builder" still has tiling to do. The walls have been left and holes need to be filled but he has fitted all the kitchen cupboards - it looks to us that he will have to take the cupboards down again to do the job of filling and painting again.
He has fitted spotlights but where the old strip light was, the ceiling has a hole in it and he also left all the old paper on the ceiling so it looks like this will all need to be done again.
Since the electrics tripped - now this is a small point, but it is annoying, we haven't had a doorbell since November.
I had an email from the landlord (as we have each other's email addresses) asking if the builder has been in touch to come back and do the snags.
We don't want all this work being done while we are there as it's going to be more upheaval and hassle for us.
Also, we feel that the property is not safe with the plug sockets hanging out and the cooker being a fire hazard with the cupboards overhanging it.
Where do we stand? What are our options? Would be be able to say that we don't want to live there as its unsafe and our contract be cancelled and we move out and find another home? Or do we have to have the works done while we are there?
Our baby is now 10 months but I am worried about the safety issues I have mentioned - although I will get cupboard locks but it just doesn't sit right with us paying all this rent for such a cr*p unfinished kitchen.
Any advice ?
In November 08 we agreed to rent a house. A new kitchen was being fitted and we were told it would be finished when we moved in. It wasn't but we still moved in but had no kitchen for about a week as the "builder" was there still fitting the kitchen. We had to live in the front room for about a week and due to the dust, had to move our stuff to the upstairs. Anyway, this one man band of a builder carried on fitting the kitchen and appliances. It was really inconvenient as we had a 7 month old baby and I was boiling kettles in the front room for her.
Anyway at Christmas time, the builder packed up for christmas and we were told he would be back in the New Year to do the snags.
Now, I think the term snags is wrong here as there is still major work needed to be done and also, it has been left (in my view) in a pretty crap state. I will list the problems we have:
All of the plug sockets in the cupboards are not fixed to the wall so all the wires are hanging out the back - we have had the electrics trip on one day about 5 times. Admittedly, it has stopped recently but it seems it happens when we have too many electrical appliances on at once. We have told the agent but nothing has been done.
The kitchen cupboards, we feel, are fitted too low over the hob and actually overhang where the flames are (if you didn't have a pot on them) and heat up when you are cooking. I was frying some bacon and it spat out and the flames went up and actually put black soot over the corner of the kitchen cupboard. Also, the extractor hood is too narrow for the hob and it doesn't actually extract anything anywhere as it just goes into the wall.
This "builder" still has tiling to do. The walls have been left and holes need to be filled but he has fitted all the kitchen cupboards - it looks to us that he will have to take the cupboards down again to do the job of filling and painting again.
He has fitted spotlights but where the old strip light was, the ceiling has a hole in it and he also left all the old paper on the ceiling so it looks like this will all need to be done again.
Since the electrics tripped - now this is a small point, but it is annoying, we haven't had a doorbell since November.
I had an email from the landlord (as we have each other's email addresses) asking if the builder has been in touch to come back and do the snags.
We don't want all this work being done while we are there as it's going to be more upheaval and hassle for us.
Also, we feel that the property is not safe with the plug sockets hanging out and the cooker being a fire hazard with the cupboards overhanging it.
Where do we stand? What are our options? Would be be able to say that we don't want to live there as its unsafe and our contract be cancelled and we move out and find another home? Or do we have to have the works done while we are there?
Our baby is now 10 months but I am worried about the safety issues I have mentioned - although I will get cupboard locks but it just doesn't sit right with us paying all this rent for such a cr*p unfinished kitchen.
Any advice ?
cslgirl said:
I had an email from the landlord asking if the builder has been in touch to come back and do the snags.
We don't want all this work being done while we are there
we feel that the property is not safe with the plug sockets hanging out
Maybe the landlord is finding it difficult working around you? You want the work done, but not while you're there..... tough to find builders so flexible.We don't want all this work being done while we are there
we feel that the property is not safe with the plug sockets hanging out
It's worth saying that the flat should be of a rentable quality, it's not. So I assume some sort of rebate would be in order?
NDA said:
cslgirl said:
I had an email from the landlord asking if the builder has been in touch to come back and do the snags.
We don't want all this work being done while we are there
we feel that the property is not safe with the plug sockets hanging out
Maybe the landlord is finding it difficult working around you? You want the work done, but not while you're there..... tough to find builders so flexible.We don't want all this work being done while we are there
we feel that the property is not safe with the plug sockets hanging out
It's worth saying that the flat should be of a rentable quality, it's not. So I assume some sort of rebate would be in order?
I have asked the letting agent today for a copy of our contract as we didn't get sent a copy when we signed so will have a read to see if the landlord is in breach of his conditions.
cslgirl said:
All of the plug sockets in the cupboards are not fixed to the wall so all the wires are hanging out the back - we have had the electrics trip on one day about 5 times. Admittedly, it has stopped recently but it seems it happens when we have too many electrical appliances on at once. We have told the agent but nothing has been done.
This is very naughty.cslgirl said:
The kitchen cupboards, we feel, are fitted too low over the hob and actually overhang where the flames are (if you didn't have a pot on them) and heat up when you are cooking. I was frying some bacon and it spat out and the flames went up and actually put black soot over the corner of the kitchen cupboard. Also, the extractor hood is too narrow for the hob and it doesn't actually extract anything anywhere as it just goes into the wall.
There are specific regulations for the height above a hob that cupboards have to be. cslgirl said:
This "builder" still has tiling to do. The walls have been left and holes need to be filled but he has fitted all the kitchen cupboards - it looks to us that he will have to take the cupboards down again to do the job of filling and painting again.
Why would you care what is behind the cupboards? cslgirl said:
Any advice ?
Find somewhere else to live. Move out. Stop paying rent. Demand deposit back or you get local authority buildings chaps involved. miniman said:
cslgirl said:
All of the plug sockets in the cupboards are not fixed to the wall so all the wires are hanging out the back - we have had the electrics trip on one day about 5 times. Admittedly, it has stopped recently but it seems it happens when we have too many electrical appliances on at once. We have told the agent but nothing has been done.
This is very naughty.cslgirl said:
The kitchen cupboards, we feel, are fitted too low over the hob and actually overhang where the flames are (if you didn't have a pot on them) and heat up when you are cooking. I was frying some bacon and it spat out and the flames went up and actually put black soot over the corner of the kitchen cupboard. Also, the extractor hood is too narrow for the hob and it doesn't actually extract anything anywhere as it just goes into the wall.
There are specific regulations for the height above a hob that cupboards have to be. cslgirl said:
This "builder" still has tiling to do. The walls have been left and holes need to be filled but he has fitted all the kitchen cupboards - it looks to us that he will have to take the cupboards down again to do the job of filling and painting again.
Why would you care what is behind the cupboards? cslgirl said:
Any advice ?
Find somewhere else to live. Move out. Stop paying rent. Demand deposit back or you get local authority buildings chaps involved. Shall I go see a solicitor ? My landlord is a solicitor so I would need all the help I can get to get my facts right?
miniman said:
I would question, actually, why there are plug sockets in a cupboard. Very odd. Does the builder turn up on a horse?
LOL. If it were my kitchen, I certainly wouldn't be paying the guy! They are at the back of the cupboards - one for the cooker and another for the dishwasher and another for the washing machine. There are the "normal" sockets in the tiled area of the kitchen which are fitted to the wall.
cslgirl said:
miniman said:
Got you. They should still be screwed into the wall properly though. Are the metal back boxes there?
No metal back boxes, just the front face and then the wires hanging out the back on all of the sockets. Personally, I am quite comfortable with electrics so would probably sort it out myself. But that's neither here nor there, you shouldn't have to. I would be contacting the agent to say that unless it is sorted to your satisfaction you will be in touch with NICEIC (http://niceic.org.uk/) and building control at your local authority as kitchens are subject to Part P (see www.partp.co.uk) and I would bet that these numpties aren't certified.
cslgirl said:
miniman said:
Got you. They should still be screwed into the wall properly though. Are the metal back boxes there?
No metal back boxes, just the front face and then the wires hanging out the back on all of the sockets. Yes, the managing agents have come round periodically to see how the works were coming on. He even took photo's of the sockets (and other damage the builder had done to the wooden work surfaces to show it wasn't us who did the damage). He took the photo's back in January. We called the managing agents in between christmas and new year to report that the electrics had tripped out 5 times in one morning because we had the washing machine and the dishwasher and kettle on at the same time but again, nothing was done. They can't even set up a direct debit for the rent lol !!
I believe the gas and electric was signed off mid-works by the Corgi man but my OH says its only the hard wiring the Corgi man signs off so it's down the to builder leaving the wires as he has.
I believe the gas and electric was signed off mid-works by the Corgi man but my OH says its only the hard wiring the Corgi man signs off so it's down the to builder leaving the wires as he has.
Edited by cslgirl on Wednesday 18th February 13:17
Considering you need both an electical safety chack and a gas safety chack before renting a property out, I would ask the letting agent if you could see both.
I would suspect that they have neither given the problems you have at the property.
If that is the case, shop them to the local authority.
I would suspect that they have neither given the problems you have at the property.
If that is the case, shop them to the local authority.
AndrewTait said:
Considering you need both an electical safety chack and a gas safety chack before renting a property out, I would ask the letting agent if you could see both.
I would suspect that they have neither given the problems you have at the property.
If that is the case, shop them to the local authority.
Indeed. Might be worth finding somewhere else to live first, though...I would suspect that they have neither given the problems you have at the property.
If that is the case, shop them to the local authority.
I am tempted to do this but am wondering - is there a way I could use this to get out of my assured shorthold tenancy agreement earlier than I am signed up to? i.e., say let us get out 2 months earlier or I will report you? Or is that just out of order lol? Or is it a case of get it fixed asap for us?
cslgirl said:
I am tempted to do this but am wondering - is there a way I could use this to get out of my assured shorthold tenancy agreement earlier than I am signed up to? i.e., say let us get out 2 months earlier or I will report you? Or is that just out of order lol? Or is it a case of get it fixed asap for us?
I would seek some advice (i.e. from CAB / a lawyer) on that, but certainly my tactic would be to withdraw from the contract citing that it is void due to issues with the property making it uninhabitable. miniman said:
cslgirl said:
I am tempted to do this but am wondering - is there a way I could use this to get out of my assured shorthold tenancy agreement earlier than I am signed up to? i.e., say let us get out 2 months earlier or I will report you? Or is that just out of order lol? Or is it a case of get it fixed asap for us?
I would seek some advice (i.e. from CAB / a lawyer) on that, but certainly my tactic would be to withdraw from the contract citing that it is void due to issues with the property making it uninhabitable. From the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement:
I would say that your landlord is in breach of that clause and would be well advised to let you walk away with your deposit in order to avoid anyone "official" looking into the building work.
asta said:
The LANDLORD agrees:
2) To carry out all necessary repairs, other than those that were caused by malicious acts by the TENANT(S) or any person that was in the DWELLING HOUSE with the permission of the TENANT(S).
The agreement is mostly for the protection of the tenant, and seeks to prevent the landlord terminating it without proper notice etc. Typically they contain very little in the way of protection for the landlord.2) To carry out all necessary repairs, other than those that were caused by malicious acts by the TENANT(S) or any person that was in the DWELLING HOUSE with the permission of the TENANT(S).
I would say that your landlord is in breach of that clause and would be well advised to let you walk away with your deposit in order to avoid anyone "official" looking into the building work.
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