Discussion
Hi all,
As you may recall I started a thread about my brother who wanted to go into the forces to do IT/Communications type things. They have been quite slack getting back to him, and he has been having a long hard think about whether it is something he wants to do (the forces that is not the subject).
So he has been looking at doing some training and going into IT in London in the meantime/instead. Now from what I read its not the best time, but I should imagine these studies could take a while.
He has been looking at SUN courses, he would like to go into being an administrator, or and analyst looks appealing, as opposed to being a developer. I understand we have a few contractor types on here, and I know this is something you get into when you have proved yourself in the field, but some recommendation of courses, or things to do to get your foot in the door would be great.
I had a look with him, and we see specialist things obviously command a huge premium over your normal support type stuff (SAP,Unix etc)..
So are these courses any good? Will they get you a job at the bottom? What about the seemingly large barrier of a degree (he doesn't have this)
Hope you can help, cheers.
As you may recall I started a thread about my brother who wanted to go into the forces to do IT/Communications type things. They have been quite slack getting back to him, and he has been having a long hard think about whether it is something he wants to do (the forces that is not the subject).
So he has been looking at doing some training and going into IT in London in the meantime/instead. Now from what I read its not the best time, but I should imagine these studies could take a while.
He has been looking at SUN courses, he would like to go into being an administrator, or and analyst looks appealing, as opposed to being a developer. I understand we have a few contractor types on here, and I know this is something you get into when you have proved yourself in the field, but some recommendation of courses, or things to do to get your foot in the door would be great.
I had a look with him, and we see specialist things obviously command a huge premium over your normal support type stuff (SAP,Unix etc)..
So are these courses any good? Will they get you a job at the bottom? What about the seemingly large barrier of a degree (he doesn't have this)
Hope you can help, cheers.
How old is he ?
Depending on how old he is and if he doesn't want to go to University how about an Apprenticeship or a BTEC / GNVQ (or whatever they are called) in computing.
I would think with enough experience and time served, the fact he doesn't have a degree will become irrelevant, however there will be a glass ceiling of jobs that he can apply for from the off.
However - it's worth bearing in mind that if he can become more skilled i.e. as a Java / C# / C++ / Unix Developer then he'll be able to command a higher salary than someone as a sys admin.
It sounds as though he's looking to go into earning as opposed to full time education but with the market as it is, maybe it would be an idea to use this time to study full time for a recognised qualification (not Computeach) and then look for a trainee developer role in 12 / 24 months time.
Depending on how old he is and if he doesn't want to go to University how about an Apprenticeship or a BTEC / GNVQ (or whatever they are called) in computing.
I would think with enough experience and time served, the fact he doesn't have a degree will become irrelevant, however there will be a glass ceiling of jobs that he can apply for from the off.
However - it's worth bearing in mind that if he can become more skilled i.e. as a Java / C# / C++ / Unix Developer then he'll be able to command a higher salary than someone as a sys admin.
It sounds as though he's looking to go into earning as opposed to full time education but with the market as it is, maybe it would be an idea to use this time to study full time for a recognised qualification (not Computeach) and then look for a trainee developer role in 12 / 24 months time.
Thanks Sebo,
He is 19 at the moment, has got A-Levels, and has been working for my dad for a year doing something unrelated.
I was talking about the official sun microsystems courses he had heard that these were more respected and sough after than the types computeach offer, I have heard that the MCSE, et al have become a bit pointless now?
Thanks for that info!
He is 19 at the moment, has got A-Levels, and has been working for my dad for a year doing something unrelated.
I was talking about the official sun microsystems courses he had heard that these were more respected and sough after than the types computeach offer, I have heard that the MCSE, et al have become a bit pointless now?
Thanks for that info!
cs02rm0 said:
Sun qualifications are certainly recognised in the Java world.
Ok, thank you, would you care to elaborate what kind of roles (he has been trying to research but as you know yourself, there is a lot to take in, in regards to roles etc) you would go into? And is there specific courses to take, as again there seems to be a vast amount to choose from!Thanks.
A Unix certification would be a good start and may help get him in somewhere in a low level support role.
Rather than Sun, i would suggest Red Hat Linux, the RHCE course is well regarded as you really need to know the stuff to gain the full certification.
To go an do a course though you need a basic grounding in UNIX otherwise it will be a waste of time and money. They tend to be quite intensive and UNIX is far removed from someone who is used to MS Windows. You can do fundamentals courses aimed at beginners but they are really basic and pricey for what you get out.
Best to start with some books and learn the basics of UNIX and go from there.
Rather than Sun, i would suggest Red Hat Linux, the RHCE course is well regarded as you really need to know the stuff to gain the full certification.
To go an do a course though you need a basic grounding in UNIX otherwise it will be a waste of time and money. They tend to be quite intensive and UNIX is far removed from someone who is used to MS Windows. You can do fundamentals courses aimed at beginners but they are really basic and pricey for what you get out.
Best to start with some books and learn the basics of UNIX and go from there.
Edited by paul99 on Friday 20th February 11:02
Try this link, it should help out a bit for teh Sun/java side of things http://www.sun.com/training/certification/java/ind...
Edited by Arklight on Friday 20th February 11:02
Reagrding MCSE I don't think they are held in particularly high esteem but at the same time you still see a few jobs at a certain level asking for them.
I would say "demonstrable" experience / knowledge is more useful but as in Project Management (my area) you still get allot of people asking for PRINCE2, despite the fact that it's almost impossible to implement any of it in the private sector. That said, it does show at least some level of competance in passing exams...
No idea about the Sun quals but a Java / Unix / Solaris house would probaly like them
I would say "demonstrable" experience / knowledge is more useful but as in Project Management (my area) you still get allot of people asking for PRINCE2, despite the fact that it's almost impossible to implement any of it in the private sector. That said, it does show at least some level of competance in passing exams...
No idea about the Sun quals but a Java / Unix / Solaris house would probaly like them
A guy I work with showed me their bumf as he wanted to get into IT.okgo said:
cs02rm0 said:
Sun qualifications are certainly recognised in the Java world.
Ok, thank you, would you care to elaborate what kind of roles (he has been trying to research but as you know yourself, there is a lot to take in, in regards to roles etc) you would go into? And is there specific courses to take, as again there seems to be a vast amount to choose from!Thanks.
I'd be inclined to pursue the programming route, even if he just wants to be an administrator. At best he'll make more money doing something more varied, at worst he'll have a much better understanding of networks, computer architecture, etc. than any sysadmin course would teach him. It's all just that level lower.
As I say though, I'm a developer so I'm probably totally biased. Not quite sure where he is in terms of education or having left education but I'd encourage him to get familiar with Linux, then shell scripting and if he enjoys that to think about Java or Ruby as a first programming language before worrying too much about certifications. Having the right technology acronyms on his CV and the knowledge to back it up in an interview is probably more important in the IT world anyway.
Apologies if that was rambling, sick as a dog today!
The only other thing I was going to add is that the job market hasn't affected me personally - touch wood, I'm about to be offered a job at an expanding company on 1/3 more money, a year ago I had an even bigger percentage increase though so maybe it has got worse! I'm not in London though, not sure if it'd be different down there.
cs02rm0 said:
okgo said:
cs02rm0 said:
Sun qualifications are certainly recognised in the Java world.
Ok, thank you, would you care to elaborate what kind of roles (he has been trying to research but as you know yourself, there is a lot to take in, in regards to roles etc) you would go into? And is there specific courses to take, as again there seems to be a vast amount to choose from!Thanks.
I'd be inclined to pursue the programming route, even if he just wants to be an administrator. At best he'll make more money doing something more varied, at worst he'll have a much better understanding of networks, computer architecture, etc. than any sysadmin course would teach him. It's all just that level lower.
As I say though, I'm a developer so I'm probably totally biased. Not quite sure where he is in terms of education or having left education but I'd encourage him to get familiar with Linux, then shell scripting and if he enjoys that to think about Java or Ruby as a first programming language before worrying too much about certifications. Having the right technology acronyms on his CV and the knowledge to back it up in an interview is probably more important in the IT world anyway.
Apologies if that was rambling, sick as a dog today!
I think he has some books on order anyhow, but that's useful. At what stage will somewhere take you on? When you have the certs or if you are au-fait with things?
Cheers guys
p.s that red hat looks interesting too!
I'm in a similar kind of position to the OP's brother. Well kind of.
I studied mechanical engineering at uni, and have more or less decided it's no the route for me. The most interesting bits of the degree were the programming and system/mathematical modeling things. I did computing at AS level and really enjoyed it, but that's the only qualification I have.
I'm trying to teach myself C++ just to keep occupied at the moment, but I don't really know if there's a qualification I can get. I've tried google, but I must be searching for the wrong things. Any industry standards qualifications I should be looking for? Realistically, what are the chances of finding a junior developer role for someone without a background in computing (CS degree for example)?
I studied mechanical engineering at uni, and have more or less decided it's no the route for me. The most interesting bits of the degree were the programming and system/mathematical modeling things. I did computing at AS level and really enjoyed it, but that's the only qualification I have.
I'm trying to teach myself C++ just to keep occupied at the moment, but I don't really know if there's a qualification I can get. I've tried google, but I must be searching for the wrong things. Any industry standards qualifications I should be looking for? Realistically, what are the chances of finding a junior developer role for someone without a background in computing (CS degree for example)?
Also for various IT courses look here :- http://www.koenig-solutions.com/
For less than the price of a 1 week course in the UK you can go on a fully packaged (Hotel/Meals etc..) course in various exotic places (Goa etc..) have 1 to 1 tuition and certification exams included.
As soon as my current contract ends im off to Goa for 3 weeks to do the RHCE and a basic Oracle course all for the same price as a 1 week RHCE course in the UK.
For less than the price of a 1 week course in the UK you can go on a fully packaged (Hotel/Meals etc..) course in various exotic places (Goa etc..) have 1 to 1 tuition and certification exams included.
As soon as my current contract ends im off to Goa for 3 weeks to do the RHCE and a basic Oracle course all for the same price as a 1 week RHCE course in the UK.
bitwrx said:
I'm in a similar kind of position to the OP's brother. Well kind of.
I studied mechanical engineering at uni, and have more or less decided it's no the route for me. The most interesting bits of the degree were the programming and system/mathematical modeling things. I did computing at AS level and really enjoyed it, but that's the only qualification I have.
I'm trying to teach myself C++ just to keep occupied at the moment, but I don't really know if there's a qualification I can get. I've tried google, but I must be searching for the wrong things. Any industry standards qualifications I should be looking for? Realistically, what are the chances of finding a junior developer role for someone without a background in computing (CS degree for example)?
I was a similar situation to you a decade ago. Did a Mech Eng degree. Joined Rolls as Graduate Engineer. Realised it wasn't the life for me so taught myself VB5 in the evenings and at weekends. Did the VB5 MCP exam. Took an IT job doing Access (pay cut). Moved to London and joined a small consultancy. Eventually ended up self employed on an IB trading desk. So definitely possibleI studied mechanical engineering at uni, and have more or less decided it's no the route for me. The most interesting bits of the degree were the programming and system/mathematical modeling things. I did computing at AS level and really enjoyed it, but that's the only qualification I have.
I'm trying to teach myself C++ just to keep occupied at the moment, but I don't really know if there's a qualification I can get. I've tried google, but I must be searching for the wrong things. Any industry standards qualifications I should be looking for? Realistically, what are the chances of finding a junior developer role for someone without a background in computing (CS degree for example)?
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