How long can we afford expensive punishments?

[singlecoil]

With things being in the state they are, and looking like they might get worse, could a case be made for returning to cheaper forms of penalties for convicted criminals, such as corporal and even capital punishment?

I know that putting people in prison is very expensive, and I should imagine that those measures which don't go that far, such as probation, curfews etc must be quite expensive too, whereas a damn good thrashing would be quite cheap. A bit Dickensian, I know, but maybe we should start considering it, and bring it in if things get worse?

[chr15b]

if it wasnt for h&s, the pc brigade and their 'human rights' it would be imo a lot cheaper.

yeh and bring back the chain gang - lets get these people working for their keep

[tinman0]

singlecoil said:

I know that putting people in prison is very expensive, and I should imagine that those measures which don't go that far, such as probation, curfews etc must be quite expensive too, whereas a damn good thrashing would be quite cheap. A bit Dickensian, I know, but maybe we should start considering it, and bring it in if things get worse?

We don't need to resort to capital punishment, just give adequate punishments (eg prison) in the first place.

Here's the logic - the more people in prison the less crimes they commit. Considering its only 125k-200k people that make our lives a misery, then jail the whole lot, and watch crime rates fall. Worked in the 90s when Michael Howard was Home Sec, why can't we do it again?

[Daston]

can we not get gangs working on the roads or other stuff that gives back to the commuity? or failing that I hear Rope is quite cheap and its reusable....

[mybrainhurts]

When I take over, they'll be shipped to a rock in the South Atlantic.

End of problem...

[Mars]

tinman0 said:

singlecoil said:

I know that putting people in prison is very expensive, and I should imagine that those measures which don't go that far, such as probation, curfews etc must be quite expensive too, whereas a damn good thrashing would be quite cheap. A bit Dickensian, I know, but maybe we should start considering it, and bring it in if things get worse?

We don't need to resort to capital punishment, just give adequate punishments (eg prison) in the first place.

Here's the logic - the more people in prison the less crimes they commit. Considering its only 125k-200k people that make our lives a misery, then jail the whole lot, and watch crime rates fall. Worked in the 90s when Michael Howard was Home Sec, why can't we do it again?

Yep, this is the measure the next Tory govt ought to be considering. Build more prisons, put ALL the scumbags in them, and make their lives less tolerable than being a good boy outside. Introduce 2 or 3 strikes then you're out (in jail for a loooong time) too. Get them off the streets and life for everyone else will be much easier. I doubt there would be many people who would object to their taxes going towards such a policy.

[V8mate]

chr15b said:

if it wasnt for h&s, the pc brigade and their 'human rights' it would be imo a lot cheaper.

Yep. They'd prevent the executioner from getting on with the job because his blade is too sharp.

[Funk]

Put them to work labouring on road-widening schemes. Free manual labour for the Labour party.

[sleep envy]

I reckon we should bring back stocks

cheap, humiliating for the convicted and you can through stuff at them to release pent up stress and agression - everyone's a winner

[V8mate]

sleep envy said:

I reckon we should bring back stocks

cheap, humiliating for the convicted and you can through stuff at them to release pent up stress and agression - everyone's a winner

Great idea.

Site them on the concourses of London's mainline railway stations; plenty of frustrated crowds to ensure that justice is effectively delivered.

[EDLT]

Mars said:

tinman0 said:

singlecoil said:

I know that putting people in prison is very expensive, and I should imagine that those measures which don't go that far, such as probation, curfews etc must be quite expensive too, whereas a damn good thrashing would be quite cheap. A bit Dickensian, I know, but maybe we should start considering it, and bring it in if things get worse?

We don't need to resort to capital punishment, just give adequate punishments (eg prison) in the first place.

Here's the logic - the more people in prison the less crimes they commit. Considering its only 125k-200k people that make our lives a misery, then jail the whole lot, and watch crime rates fall. Worked in the 90s when Michael Howard was Home Sec, why can't we do it again?

Yep, this is the measure the next Tory govt ought to be considering. Build more prisons, put ALL the scumbags in them, and make their lives less tolerable than being a good boy outside. Introduce 2 or 3 strikes then you're out (in jail for a loooong time) too. Get them off the streets and life for everyone else will be much easier. I doubt there would be many people who would object to their taxes going towards such a policy.

Everytime they try to build a new prison the NIMBYs have a fit about it.

[V8mate]

EDLT said:

Mars said:

tinman0 said:

singlecoil said:

I know that putting people in prison is very expensive, and I should imagine that those measures which don't go that far, such as probation, curfews etc must be quite expensive too, whereas a damn good thrashing would be quite cheap. A bit Dickensian, I know, but maybe we should start considering it, and bring it in if things get worse?

We don't need to resort to capital punishment, just give adequate punishments (eg prison) in the first place.

Here's the logic - the more people in prison the less crimes they commit. Considering its only 125k-200k people that make our lives a misery, then jail the whole lot, and watch crime rates fall. Worked in the 90s when Michael Howard was Home Sec, why can't we do it again?

Yep, this is the measure the next Tory govt ought to be considering. Build more prisons, put ALL the scumbags in them, and make their lives less tolerable than being a good boy outside. Introduce 2 or 3 strikes then you're out (in jail for a loooong time) too. Get them off the streets and life for everyone else will be much easier. I doubt there would be many people who would object to their taxes going towards such a policy.

Everytime they try to build a new prison the NIMBYs have a fit about it.

In the manifesto I have prepared for some eventuality of other, I propose turfing all the residents off of the Isle of Wight and turning it into Prison GB. No on-site staff, supplies dropped in by air, some kind of 'clever' cordon to stop/notice escape attempts.

Obviously, it makes parole and release difficult. Oh well. They can stay there. We don't want them back.

[ALawson]

I hear guantanamo bay will shortly we available for hire.

[Fishtigua]

I've got a length of rope and a big fishing gaffhook in the back of the Drover, it's just the price of diesel that makes it uneconomical.

[tinman0]

EDLT said:

Mars said:

tinman0 said:

singlecoil said:

I know that putting people in prison is very expensive, and I should imagine that those measures which don't go that far, such as probation, curfews etc must be quite expensive too, whereas a damn good thrashing would be quite cheap. A bit Dickensian, I know, but maybe we should start considering it, and bring it in if things get worse?

We don't need to resort to capital punishment, just give adequate punishments (eg prison) in the first place.

Here's the logic - the more people in prison the less crimes they commit. Considering its only 125k-200k people that make our lives a misery, then jail the whole lot, and watch crime rates fall. Worked in the 90s when Michael Howard was Home Sec, why can't we do it again?

Yep, this is the measure the next Tory govt ought to be considering. Build more prisons, put ALL the scumbags in them, and make their lives less tolerable than being a good boy outside. Introduce 2 or 3 strikes then you're out (in jail for a loooong time) too. Get them off the streets and life for everyone else will be much easier. I doubt there would be many people who would object to their taxes going towards such a policy.

Everytime they try to build a new prison the NIMBYs have a fit about it.

Floating prisons are the way forward.

When one gets full, you torpedo it.

[chr15b]

BIANCO said:

My idea is we outsource call centres to India why not prisoners. Ship all the scum bags over there so they can serve there time in a Indian, Vietnam, Chinese prisons. Probably only cost a couple of pounds a day for each prisoner compared to god knows how much here.

that idea is spot on!

[Mr Fenix]

My take on the crime and punishment system in the UK (and to lesser extent USA) is that the punishment for a crime is no longer heinous enough to make criminals stop and rethink their actions. Fines, a few hours of community service and all on the tax payer's dime is not working.

My suggestion would be to have a 3 or even 5 strike system whereby the punishment goes up the scale according to the crime and the strike:

Strike 1) 250-1000 pound fine, 250 hours community service.
Strike 2) Fine in the thousands of pounds, 1000-5000 pound fine and minimum of 1000 hours community service. Also some jail time depending on the severity of the crime.

Strike 3) Large fine, 2500 hours of community service, definite jail time, completely stripped of privileges in jail, no t.v, bread and water, 23hrs a day in a cell except for community work days.

Strike 4) Big fine, civil privileges taken away (driving licence, credit rating, right to vote etc.) cause your off to jail for life. Look forward to years of "Hell in a Cell" with nothing to stimulate body or mind.

Strike 5) All assets seized and sold to give back to local community. Dig a nice hole. 9mm lead injection high speed. Done.


Sounds a little harsh but in all honesty the softly, softly give scum a 2nd chance and privileges approach isn't working. In theory its the most noble and liberal thing to do but fact is serial rapists, murderers, violent offenders etc. Don't reform. Stop pishing the money away. I think removal of the dregs of humanity is the only way forward given current resources. Building more prisons won't solve the issue of growing crime. A punishment should be a punishment not just a minor inconvenience. As for "coddling" criminals...fk 'em. If you intentionally and knowingly torture/kill someone well guess what you don't get to enjoy the privileges of a civilized society.

Once potential criminals realise..."hey if I go out and stab someone tonight for fun I'll end up dead?" Hhmmn...wait a second maybe I'll stay at home and watch River City instead.

[ShadownINja]

chr15b said:

if it wasnt for h&s, the pc brigade and their 'human rights' it would be imo a lot cheaper.

yeh and bring back the chain gang - lets get these people working for their keep

Yes, I don't see why they are getting free board and lodging.

[Jasandjules]

Any prisoner who gets a three strikes and they are out gets all their assets removed and auctioned.... And they get shot.

Make them all work in some way or other, picking up litter in chain gangs and sweeping the streets, laying down tarmac etc....

[Talksteer]

sleep envy said:

I reckon we should bring back stocks

cheap, humiliating for the convicted and you can through stuff at them to release pent up stress and agression - everyone's a winner

Of course you do realise that for the stocks to work you will need a compliant criminal.

The vast majority of punishment in the criminal justice system actually requires the person being punished to turn up and be punished (fines, community service, re-education courses and a fair number of prison sentences). Make the punishment harsh or embarrassing and people just won't turn up, particularly the scrotes who don't really care about anything.

After all if the scrotes fail to turn up for this pillorying what exactly are you going to do, the police don't have the man power for a man hunt every time somebody doesn't turn up to get pelted or to hold them all in remand.

No sort of crime that would land most people in the stocks would be one which occurs frequently is fairly low level but where the criminal in question has sufficient stake in society that they wouldn't skip the punishment and run the risk of going to jail:

A motoring offence maybe......

And then we can also think about what sort of person is most likely to turn up (most probably on a week day) to throw vegetables at somebody. It would have to be somebody with a lot of time on their hand who doesn't mind hurting a stranger, sounds a bit like a chav.

There is only one fool proof way of reducing criminality, its called being rich and well educated. Tough on the causes of crime, if only we were....