Whats up with the VX220
Discussion
I may be misinformed or just being stupid but I have read a few articles and reviews on the 111r and Exige Vs The comparable VX's and most of the time the VX's seem to come up slightly better (e.g. EVO Track day Car of the year). (I am an S2 owner and not a VX lover)
My question is why would Lotus build a car for another company that is in direct compertition with it's main modle and if they were going to do this why would they make it better? I understand they must make a lot of money from the deal but still surely it's better to make your product head and shoulders above anything you make for other companies because surely the best advertiseing of all is a killer review of your product from a magazine.
My question is why would Lotus build a car for another company that is in direct compertition with it's main modle and if they were going to do this why would they make it better? I understand they must make a lot of money from the deal but still surely it's better to make your product head and shoulders above anything you make for other companies because surely the best advertiseing of all is a killer review of your product from a magazine.
I've got an EVO mag from earlier this year at home when they tested the VX220 Turbo against the Elise 111R - they were driving on mountain pass type roads and concluded that the Lotus was the better of the two.
I'll have a look and post any of the reasons up.
I opted for the Elise because IMHO it's a much better looking car than the Vauxhall and when I finally go to my grave I want to say I owned and drove a Lotus not a Vauxhall sports car - I'm not a badge snob either! Also the dealer gave me a good trade-in on my BM 3 series and I took up the 'cheap' Lotus finance deal being offered at the time.
By developing a new production line with Vauxhall for the Elise S2 / VX 220 I think that Lotus upped their game in regards to quality - important bearing in mind the wanted to export the model to the U.S.A.
>> Edited by Tim Netherton on Tuesday 14th September 10:52
I'll have a look and post any of the reasons up.
I opted for the Elise because IMHO it's a much better looking car than the Vauxhall and when I finally go to my grave I want to say I owned and drove a Lotus not a Vauxhall sports car - I'm not a badge snob either! Also the dealer gave me a good trade-in on my BM 3 series and I took up the 'cheap' Lotus finance deal being offered at the time.
By developing a new production line with Vauxhall for the Elise S2 / VX 220 I think that Lotus upped their game in regards to quality - important bearing in mind the wanted to export the model to the U.S.A.
>> Edited by Tim Netherton on Tuesday 14th September 10:52
Tim Netherton said:
By developing a new production line with Vauxhall for the Elise S2 / VX 220 I think that Lotus upped their game in regards to quality - important bearing in mind the wanted to export the model to the U.S.A.
>> Edited by Tim Netherton on Tuesday 14th September 10:52
Can echo this Lotus gained an incredible amout from the chaps at Vauxhall on quality and production. The build quality on Lotus has improved significatley.
The chaps at lotus were fine engineers but when it came to providing a durable quality product way behind. What they have learned is alredy evident in the S2 111r & exige.
But why a Lotus and not a Vauxhall I think comes down to personal taste.
Last year fifth gear tested the 111r against the VX220 Turbo. they used the race track on angelsey. A nice little circuit. Tiff drove both cars and the final result came down to lap times. Based on the lap times the Lotus won. not by much but it was a win. the lotus isnt as fast in a straight line but handling it wins hands down. All down to personal preference IMHO
I'm not convinced that the Lotus wins "hands down", but it does have much, MUCH better ABS than the VX's. Frankly, the ABS in my old VX was a nightmare - it gets upset very easily by broken surfaces, and then the car really doesn't want to stop...
I suspect the Elise is the better track car, with the VX220 being the better road car.
Dan
I suspect the Elise is the better track car, with the VX220 being the better road car.
Dan
I drove both back to back when we decided recently. I quite like the look of the VX220t anyhow as a day to day car the handling on the Lotus is definately better, the ABS on the VX is crap. Most importantly the VX you cannot get A/c and there are NO face vents. I like a gentle bit of fresh air in my face so that sold it. I do quite like the GM engine probebly more so than the Toyota.
Here's one rather sensible reason: If you had bought a VX220 on launch in 2000 it would have lost 54% of it's £23,485 value, leaving you with less than £11,000. If you had bought a 111 that same year you would still have 58% of the value and a car worth £15,500 (source: Parkers). Second reason, the VX220 wil destroy the planet more quickly and annoy the tax man. Thirdly, its a LOTUS!
shirepro said:
Here's one rather sensible reason: If you had bought a VX220 on launch in 2000 it would have lost 54% of it's £23,485 value, leaving you with less than £11,000. If you had bought a 111 that same year you would still have 58% of the value and a car worth £15,500 (source: Parkers). Second reason, the VX220 wil destroy the planet more quickly and annoy the tax man. Thirdly, its a LOTUS!
Bollocks (if you'll excuse my language). Parker's is WAY off the price of a VX there (and the Elise, I suspect). The VX does loose money faster than the Lotus, which makes it a cracking used buy. It doesn't loose that much though - I sold my 2001/Y reg for £14,300 earlier this year, and mine was amongst the cheapest going at the time. Given that I bought it from a dealer for 15k the year before, I'd say I did quite well.
The earliest VX's are X reg cars (despite Parker's claims that there are W reg ones out there), and the cheapest VX I've seen so far is the £13k orange one in the PH classifieds. ... and they're both Lotuses.
Edited to add (because I can't bare to be wrong), going by your figures, the Elise is more expensive to buy at £26,750 - it's not too unnatural that it'll be worth more than the VX after a few years! Still using your figures, the VX looses around 1k more than the Elise over four years. An extra £250/year isn't criminal.
(Having said that, if you'd sold the VX after a year, the loss would be somewhat greater compared to the Elise!). Dan
>> Edited by DanL on Wednesday 15th September 09:40
DanL said:
Here's one rather sensible reason: If you had bought a VX220 on launch in 2000 it would have lost 54% of it's £23,485 value, leaving you with less than £11,000. If you had bought a 111 that same year you would still have 58% of the value and a car worth £15,500 (source: Parkers). Second reason, the VX220 wil destroy the planet more quickly and annoy the tax man. Thirdly, its a LOTUS!
Bollocks (if you'll excuse my language). Parker's is WAY off the price of a VX there (and the Elise, I suspect). The VX does loose money faster than the Lotus, which makes it a cracking used buy. It doesn't loose that much though - I sold my 2001/Y reg for £14,300 earlier this year, and mine was amongst the cheapest going at the time. Given that I bought it from a dealer for 15k the year before, I'd say I did quite well.
... and they're both Lotuses.
Edited to add (because I can't bare to be wrong), going by your figures, the Elise is more expensive to buy at £26,750 - it's not too unnatural that it'll be worth more than the VX after a few years! Still using your figures, the VX looses around 1k more than the Elise over four years. An extra £250/year isn't criminal.
Dan
>> Edited by DanL on Wednesday 15th September 09:40
But it will never be a Lotus :-)
The good old Lotus club states that in years to come the VX will be called a 'Lotus' due to the fact of being built at Hethel. Remember the Lotus Cortina's, Sunbeam and Carlton - none made in Hethel! The VX has one major bonus, it is made by the team in Norfolk 
I bet some owner will even stick Lotus badges in place of the Vauxhall things. Point to note is that the Ferrari Dino never left the factory with a Ferrari badge on it. You try and find a Dino without a Ferrari badge now, possible but rare.
From what I can gather apart from limited added comfort above the standard Elise the main difference is the engine.
Love or hate the Rover engine I would guess that Lotus had a volume discount deal on the engines and this became a restricting factor to the development of the Elise thus making it difficult to compete against the VX.
I may be totally wrong but it sounds logical
I bet some owner will even stick Lotus badges in place of the Vauxhall things. Point to note is that the Ferrari Dino never left the factory with a Ferrari badge on it. You try and find a Dino without a Ferrari badge now, possible but rare.
From what I can gather apart from limited added comfort above the standard Elise the main difference is the engine.
Love or hate the Rover engine I would guess that Lotus had a volume discount deal on the engines and this became a restricting factor to the development of the Elise thus making it difficult to compete against the VX.
I may be totally wrong but it sounds logical
garydvo said:
I bet some owner will even stick Lotus badges in place of the Vauxhall things. Point to note is that the Ferrari Dino never left the factory with a Ferrari badge on it. You try and find a Dino without a Ferrari badge now, possible but rare.
That's not a bad idea... the Lotus VX!
I'll probably get flamed for this but (whilst I do admit to a certain amount of badge snobbery) I actually quite like it as a design. If I wasn't so infatuated by the Lotus brand and heritage I might even consider one.
Incidentally, how do maintenance costs compare?
Actually that's one thing that would put me off - Vauxhall dealers... yuk.
S Works said:
Incidentally, how do maintenance costs compare?
Actually that's one thing that would put me off - Vauxhall dealers... yuk.
Indeed - there are one or two good ones out there, but there are a fair few bad ones too! In terms of the costs, it's much cheaper. Hourly rate is the standard Vauxhall one (I think), and there's menu pricing (as for all Vauxhall cars). My third year service (including MOT) cost me £198, for example...
Edited to add: you get a three year warranty too.
Dan
>> Edited by DanL on Wednesday 15th September 16:10
robsrocket said:
the VX is designed and baised on the free lego cars you get with 21 tokens from weetabix!
there are two cars in this forum: "lotus's and cars that, want to be lotus's"
To quote DanL thats "bollocks"! People up there snobby Lotus arses (like you) always end up going on about the vx's "shape" - That is a personal opinion, not fact. Weetabix tokens? FFS. Get a life fool...
I have been on SELOC trackdays and when they talk to you about the VX they seem embarrased about the slating so called "enthusiasts" give the VX. These guys love to drive. They ARE enthusiasts. I dont think you have any idea what being this means....
cheeky_chops said:
the VX is designed and baised on the free lego cars you get with 21 tokens from weetabix!
there are two cars in this forum: "lotus's and cars that, want to be lotus's"
To quote DanL thats "bollocks"! People up there snobby Lotus arses (like you) always end up going on about the vx's "shape" - That is a personal opinion, not fact. Weetabix tokens? FFS. Get a life fool...
I have been on SELOC trackdays and when they talk to you about the VX they seem embarrased about the slating so called "enthusiasts" give the VX. These guys love to drive. They ARE enthusiasts. I dont think you have any idea what being this means....
EH, EH! CALM DOWN!
Lets keep the toys in the pram lads - VX ain't a bad car, but its also not a Lotus. Live n let live.
>> Edited by S Works on Thursday 16th September 13:01
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