Tunning a 118bhp S1 elise.

[Adnic69]

I was thinking about buying an Elise and putting the Honda engine in but its just too much money.

Can you all give advise to what power I can get from a normal118bhp Elise and how much it will cost.

Or is it worth buying a VVC engine and swapping that over?? Does much need changing?

Thanks

Adam

[alunr]

Hurricane kit, 190 Throttle body, exhaust

Once you've done that if your still not happy then...

Head change.

Once I've sold my S2 111S and found a nice S1 this will be my route.

[thub]

Possibly better to start with a 111S (143 bhp standard) which can go to 160+ bhp fairly easily.
The 118 bhp engine has more potential (unless the VVC mechanism on the 111S is junked) but the big numbers will cost money. (Head work, cams, intake system, manifold, sports cat, sports exhaust, Emerald ecu .....)

[Adnic69]

Alunr- What you sugested, is that done to a 118bhp or a 111s?

The problem is I have sold my mr2 turbo, a rev3 in carrabian blue with 250bhp and thus the Elise needs to be fast.

[paulwakinshaw]

Hi Mate

This is a "rough" guide of what you should expect to get from a standard elise S1 after fitting mods

Standard S1

118BHP - 122lb/ft torque

Stage 1 tuning:
Hurricane air filter
trophy 160 throttle body
cat bypass pipe
sports exhaust
super chip (maybe not such a good idea)

130 BHP - 125lb/ft torque


Stage 2 tuning:
as above plus piper cams and vernier pulleys

135/140 BHP - 127lb/ft torque


Stage 3 tuning:
as above plus Emerald ECU

145 BHP - 130lb/ft torque


Stage 4 tuning:
as above plus head work retaining standard valve sizes

155-160 BHP - 133lb/ft torque


after that you can go mad with big valves, direct to head throttle bodies, 4-2-1 exhaust manifolds, superchargers, the list goes on and on, but this stuff in very heavy on the wallet.

Wako

[rfoster]

Either that or check out Bell & Colvills conversions -mine's a 'Super 160' which I think was about £3,000 + VAT. Big difference.

[funkyelise]

I've been looking at the same of late. Currently have cat bypass pipe, hurricane induction system, sports exhaust and trophy 160 throttle body which has given it a bit extra but you always want more! I think my next step will be a 170bhp upgrade from Thames Valley Lotus Centre. (Think the kit is from PTP but they fit it) I'll have to dig the numbers out, but I think its £3500 for the complete kit (that includes performance head, carbon induction system, sports catalyst and sports exhaust) They said that if you have some of the bits already, the kit price would drop accordingly. Very tempted...

[adrianr]

I'd recommend a good read of www.dvapower.co.uk - should give you a good idea of what to expect for your money.

AdrianR

[alunr]

funkyelise said:

I've been looking at the same of late. Currently have cat bypass pipe, hurricane induction system, sports exhaust and trophy 160 throttle body which has given it a bit extra but you always want more! I think my next step will be a 170bhp upgrade from Thames Valley Lotus Centre. (Think the kit is from PTP but they fit it) I'll have to dig the numbers out, but I think its £3500 for the complete kit (that includes performance head, carbon induction system, sports catalyst and sports exhaust) They said that if you have some of the bits already, the kit price would drop accordingly. Very tempted...

Have a shop around you've got Steve Williams and Brooke Kensington not that far from you both are better renowned for their Lotus work.

[alunr]

Adnic69 said:

Alunr- What you sugested, is that done to a 118bhp or a 111s? The problem is I have sold my mr2 turbo, a rev3 in carrabian blue with 250bhp and thus the Elise needs to be fast.

118hp although theres nothing there you can't do to a 111S until it comes to head time (see the DVAPower link).

The elise is a lot more about finesse than power and makes up for any lacking in the power dept by carrying its speed through corners extremely well!

[garydvo]

Thinking of upgrading mine.

To get the damn thing to go quicker though I am going to invest in some driver training before I eek out BHP or transplant an engine in the back.

I have heard stories about poeple who know how to drive the damn things and this seems a better value initail option.


Gary

[Adnic69]

DVA seems best for prices, if you are prepared to do some work yourself its very cheap for what you get.

It is possible to create your own tb's using Gsxr 750 ones and some good planning. You would save a good £500+ over getting Jenvey's.

[S Works]

funkyelise said:

I think my next step will be a 170bhp upgrade from Thames Valley Lotus Centre. (Think the kit is from PTP but they fit it) I'll have to dig the numbers out, but I think its £3500 for the complete kit (that includes performance head, carbon induction system, sports catalyst and sports exhaust) They said that if you have some of the bits already, the kit price would drop accordingly. Very tempted...

You might wanna check out the servicing on those once you've got the kit. IIRC I heard some very big numbers from Sinclaires when I inquired about Waspy's PTP 170 beast and how much it cost to keep it healthy. Could be wrong tho...

I also spoke to Miles @ Fibreglass Services about buying an S2 111s vs. upping the power on my relatively std S1 (only a Sports zorst at the moment).

He reckoned for about 2k plus vat he could do the equivalent of a 135S engine conversion which would make the best use of the power and torque of the car for the money. He also mentioned that whilst the 111s VVC's are good they can become problematic post 50k and begin to be expensive.

[LRdriver II]

the problem is that if know whether your thirst for power will stop at 160bhp (above which reliability will potentially drop) I went for raceline's 160 kit which was rock solid.
Also do you have a close ratio box? That combined with a 160bhp package from somebody reputable and LSS (Lotus sport suspension) will give you a good alrounder car. As soon as you want more, then you should have gone with Honda from the start.

Biiiiig decision time, stop at 160 forever OR go Honda and save money in the long run.. (speaking from experience)

[adrnbtt]

i have just taken delivery of my S2 111s Turbo Technics 215 BHP (230 BHP recorded on a rolling road for my conversion)and it is warp factor 10 !!!!
I havent travelled this fast in a vehicle since i was on runway 2 at Manchester airport going on me hols !!!
An S1 conversion is available i believe , the sound of that supercharger behind your right ear is music

[StuartB]

Lots of people will tell you that the K Series can be unreliable if you begin to tune it too far (from what I understand over go over 160 and you can expect problems to occur) Can't comment one way or the other myself, my one is still a standard 118 although I am about to replace the throttle body

It might work out cheaper to buy something that has already been done. You might find that if you post up on wanted boards (also try the SELOC one) that somebody might consider letting there honda/audi conversion go?

[kal-el]

My advice is speak to Dave Andrews at DVA power, as he is bar far the most highly regarded K-Series tuner and charges you sensible prices.
Anyone who is stupid enough to speng the £3000 plus on the PTP/Lotus upgrade needs to be shot. You can get the same thing from DVA for less than £1000.
The PTP products are a total rip off.
Personally I'd go for a DVA head, pair of cams and an Emerald ECU coupled with the usual induction and exhaust mods.
BTW, the K-Series is reliable up to 180Bhp but after that you need forged pistons and grade A liners.

Here is a section from www.dvapower.com

K03 - 160BHP kit (gives 160BHP on 1800K, 155BHP+ on 1600K)

Similar to the 145BHP kit but including work to your cylinder head to improve volumetric efficiency. Gives large gains in torque and much better drivability. Kit comes ready mapped but the ECU is entirely user programmable. Head retains standard valve sizes and is on an exchange basis.

Comprises

Pair Piper fast-road cams
Emerald 32bit M3DK ECU
Porting work to your cylinder head
Appropriate oil seals, sealants etc.
Heavy duty head gasket, head bolts and manifold gaskets

Price £1520

Fitting above kit to Caterham seven - £350
Fitting above kit to Lotus Elise - £425
Fitting above kit to MGF - £455

For Elise/MGF with air conditioning add £100 to fitting.

Verniers for above kit - £200 (includes fitting and setting cam timing)


K04 - 165BHP kit (Gives 165BHP+ on 1800K, 160BHP+ on 1600K) AKA 'Emerald kit'

Originally developed by Dave Walker at Emerald. Gives excellent power increase across the range and much improved drivability and throttle response comprising Jenvey DTH throttle bodies with composite trumpets and fuel rail mountings, Pair Piper fast road cams, Emerald M3DK ECU with suitable map and all gaskets and oil seals necessary to fit

Above kit £1610


Fitting of above kit to Caterham Se7en £350
Fitting of above kit to Lotus Elise £450
Fitting of above kit to MGF £480

Verniers for above kit - £200 (includes fitting and setting cam timing)

Optional airbox kit for Caterham seven - add £300 fitting £50
Optional airbox kit for Lotus Elise - add £365 fitting £75
Optional airbox kit for MGF - add £365 fitting £85


K05 - 185BHP kit (Gives 185BHP on 1800K, 175BHP+ on 1600K)

Gives massive gains in power and torque through the rev range and fantastic throttle response. Comprising Jenvey DTH throttle bodies with composite trumpets and fuel rail mountings, pair BP285H cams, Emerald ECU with suitable map, all gaskets, oils seals, heads bolts and including extensive cylinder head work with big inlet valves.(head is on an exchange basis)

Above kit £2350


Fitting of above kit to Caterham Se7en £500
Fitting of above kit to Lotus Elise £575
Fitting of above kit to MGF £605

For Elise/MGF with air conditioning add £100 to fitting.

Verniers for above kit - £200 (includes fitting and setting cam timing)


Optional airbox kit for Caterham seven - add £300 fitting £50
Optional airbox kit for Lotus Elise - add £365 fitting £75
Optional airbox kit for MGF - add £365 fitting £75

[funkyelise]

Hmmm...will look into the DVA options. The PTP kit does comprise more than just engine work. The ECU is reworked as well as the head and the induction and exhaust mods are all included (and if you already have them, the overall mod price is reduced) The other plus in my view is that PTP have developed the kit in its entirety. But I imagine each has its own pros and cons. The cheapest option isn't always the best... Anyone had a chance to compare a PTP converted car against a DVA car? Be interesting to see how the performance characteristics match up. Hmmm...I feel a race coming on!

[Adnic69]

The question I sent to DVA and his reply........


Hello there Dave.



I will keep this short. I am going to be getting an Elise in the next year but am unsure what to go for. Is it going to be better to get a 111s or find a cheap normal Elise and get that up to 150+ bhp? I have just come from a 250bhp Mr2 turbo and a 118bhp Elise just feels sluggish.

I am really unsure so any advice would help.



Kind Regards

Adam







The 111S has ohter things going for it so it depends on how desirable you find the other extras and how much price differential there is between a 111S and a base model.

You can take a base model to 155/160BHP for around £1500 all in. That should be enough to show a 111S a clean pair of heels.

Cheers

Dave

[kal-el]

FunkyElise

Am I the only one on this forum who thinks that the PTP kit is a total rip off or something? Please explain to me how the following is good value:

One brand new cylinder head casting with a "quick and dirty" port. i.e. It has a slightly reshaped combustion chamber and is NOT ported and polished. That work can be done for £250. Besides who wants a new casting??? Why not just exchange the one you have?

The cams: Standard profile and new followers. Again, this is totally uneccessary.

Inlet manifold: Marginally better than the standard item, which is a standard VVC inlet, big deal.

ECU map: This is just a remapped ignition and doesn't inlude the fuelling. (Like the superchips piggy back bolt on crap)

How can you say this is a complete kit? I think if I spent £3000 on that kit I would be very disappointed!

Just as an example, at Dave Walkers dyno a chap had his "Lotus/PTP" performance kit fitted and dyno'd at 139 Bhp and spent over £3k fitting it.

My car made 142 Bhp the same day with just a de-cat pipe, Janspeed exhaust manifold and the janspeed sports exhaust. I spent £800.

Lets not forget the K-series is a little long in the tooth now and is still a basic 16v unit. Why would you think that just because Lotus slap their approval on it that it is worth all that cash? After all look how Lotus bodged up the Sport 160 !!!!