VW VR6 in an Elise ?

[tacoboy]

Will a VW VR6 fit into an Elise ?
Has anyone tried to fit the VR6 into the Elise ?

[bogie]

not that I know of and why would you want to? you can get more power out of kits that are readily available - Audi or Honda etc

[M12_Nathan]

Why put a heavy, low powered engine in the elise? Even in Corrado form it only put out 190bhp, Honda K20a is a much better bet.

[chouca]

it´s been done. There was one LHD for sale in Germany last month.

But why? The 4 cyl 5 valve Audi Turbo Engine is lighter, smaller, more powerful and much easier to fit.

[JonRB]

Agreed that one can get higher outputs out of lighter engines, but I can see two advantages

a) It's a V6.
b) 181 lb ft of torque at 4200rpm

Also, 190 bhp and 181 lb ft are just the stock figures. With a simple remap, enlarged throttle body and induction kit you're talking more like 205 bhp and 200 lb ft.

It's the torque that gives you accleration, not top speed, so I could see some advantages for a light car like an Elise over a blown 4-pot.

[chouca]

why not go the Honda route if you like a n/a engine?

its only 35 kg heavier than the K engine

[bogie]

"Also, 190 bhp and 181 lb ft are just the stock figures. With a simple remap, enlarged throttle body and induction kit you're talking more like 205 bhp and 200 lb ft. "

Ive got more than that now ! certainly not worth dropping in - you can get more than that out fo the Audi 1.8, Duratec, K series with SC kit, etc...all off the shelf conversions with warranties..and much lighter/easier to fit etc - why re-invent the wheel?

Now a 2.3L V8 with 320bhp and 200lb/ft would be nice...or a supercharged Honda is top of my list at the mo - 300bhp/200lb/ft and Honda reliability etc

[JonRB]

bogie said:

Ive got more than that now

There are Corrados currently running 370bhp+ in turbo-charged form, and 275bhp in supercharged form, but that wasn't really the point I was trying to make.

[bogie]

the point Im trying to make is that there are at least 4 or 5 other engine swap options out there, that have been chosen for the Elise for a variety of reasons - all have been developed, tested and are turn key solutions.

Why attempt to re-invent the wheel? if you really want a VR6 then go for it - but theres a reason why most of the other conversions cost £5-10K and thats because even though an engine may be cheap to get hold of 2nd hand - its no mean feat getting it into an Elise and making it work reliably..you could spend months and ££££ making it work and not end up with anything better than whats already available.

If I had the money Id probably go with the 2.3L V8 bike engined jobbie, tuned to 350bhp and 200lb/ft...but there wouldnt be much change out of £20K by the time it had a decent gearbox on it and was fitted....mind you after driving a 270bhp Elise, wheel spinning in the dry in 4th, I think that putting the power down becomes an issue ! .....theres a limit to what the 225s on the back can cope with..

[tacoboy]

Just saw in the news that Proton (lotus's owner)
is in talks with VW for them to supply engines
for their cars in asia.

[malbon]

W12 diesel in the elise would be nice !

All that torque and economy. Need a shoe horn mind ;-)

[weed]

I love the VR6 but it weighs as much as a SB V8 and gets much less horsepower per beer token than any other engine out there.
Plus you'll have some handling issues to engineer out once you've crammed the lump into the chassis.
For the technical challenge, ok, but to iprove on the Elise as a real car....Don't see the point.
m

[mike9009]

Surely the best engine transplant would be from a Mazda RX8 - the only way to achieve ultimate power to weight ratio ... which at the end of the day is what the Elise is all about. Any thoughts?

Or alternatively I hear GM do a nice little 2.0L turbo that might fit??

Mike

[Arno]

mike9009 said:

Surely the best engine transplant would be from a Mazda RX8 - the only way to achieve ultimate power to weight ratio ... which at the end of the day is what the Elise is all about. Any thoughts?

Idea is nice, but there is no transaxle that would fit onto the engine in the Elise application. (RX8 is front-engine, RWD)

With enough time and money you could make something (eg. have Quaife do a custom jobbie), but it would be one hell of an undertaking to get the engine and gearbox in there *and* get everything to work reliably.

You'd get into Esthi (the twin-turbo Audi V6 Elise) territory with similat cost and problems...

So far the most 'off the wall' idea, which should still fit reasonably easily seems to be one of these 2.0L V8 engines made from 2 bike engines. Sinclaire's is working on fitting one into an Elise chassis as far as I know.

Other than that it seems either the Honda VTEC or the Audi 1.8T are the best 'transplants' out there at the moment. Fit is reasonably simple and not much fabrication/modification required.

Bye, Arno.

[JonRB]

Interesting that the ubiquitous VAG 1.8T is a common fit to the Elise, because I know of several Golf and Corrado project cars that have had that engine dropped in.

Sooooo, if a Golf or a Corrado that (obviously) readily accepts a VR6 will also accept a 1.8T, then it follows that if an Elise will readily accept a 1.8T then it might also accept a VR6.

QED.

[Arno]

JonRB said:

it might also accept a VR6.

'Might' is the keyword here...

The 1.8K series is used in the Elise

And...

The 1.8K series is used in the Rover 45

And...

The KV6 is used in the Rover 45

But...

The KV6 does *NOT* fit in the Elise (several people tried)

So yes.. A VR6 (aka. 'boat-anchor lump') might fit. It might also not, however...

Same reservations still apply. VR6 produces a pathetic amount of power for it's weight and size unless you sink a huge amount of money into it and tune it silly or start turbocharging it (now *that* would be a really tight fit in the Elise..)

Bye, Arno.

>> Edited by Arno on Friday 3rd December 12:32

[scuffham]

JonRB said:

Interesting that the ubiquitous VAG 1.8T is a common fit to the Elise, because I know of several Golf and Corrado project cars that have had that engine dropped in. Sooooo, if a Golf or a Corrado that (obviously) readily accepts a VR6 will also accept a 1.8T, then it follows that if an Elise will readily accept a 1.8T then it might also accept a VR6. QED.

on this logic, the 1.8T is used in the A6, as is the V8Bi-Turbo 4.2 engine so QED, it must be possible ro fit the V8 in the Elise!

V engines are somewhat wider than I engines, the Elise does not have any room to accomodate this sort of width in an engine.

Now, there is nothing stopping you re-designing the entire back end of the car like the GT-1 or others, but at what point is it no longer an Elise?

the wheelbase is longer, the bodyshape is different, the rear suspension will need re-designing, etc etc.

and then the cost? if you happen to have money to burn on some one off, then go for it, but if this is the case, I think you can probably come up with a better engine than the VR6 as a starting point...

[Antwerpman]

I think people are trying to say that they do not think it is a good idea

[JonRB]

If there was a smiley for having your tongue in you cheek then I'd have used it.

[Ghengis170]

I like the RX-8 plan, however unless you mount the engine flat & find a transaxle which will accept a vertical feed i can't see how it would fit....sadly.