What to buy s1 111s or s2 sports tourer?
Discussion
Hi
I am in the middle of trying to sell my much loved mk1 clio 172, and I am contemplating either an s1, or s1 111s or s2 sports tourer or race tech, or even a vx220 n/a!
Which model Elise would be the best bet for long term ownership, depreciation, running costs, etc. I have driven an s1 elise and wasn't overly impressed with performance compared to my clio 172, would really like something that was a lot quicker on acceleration. The S2 is catching my eye for its looks and the fact that i am seeing a few 2001 models for 15-16k. Ideally laser blue with hard top.
Also I have heard that you need a 'reserve' of 3k per year to run the thing, this not including insurance, tyres, fuel, tax etc. How can this be the case!?
Trying to do as much research as poss before i sell my clio, so apologies for any dumb questions above!
>>> Edited by dank on Thursday 24th February 16:09
I am in the middle of trying to sell my much loved mk1 clio 172, and I am contemplating either an s1, or s1 111s or s2 sports tourer or race tech, or even a vx220 n/a!
Which model Elise would be the best bet for long term ownership, depreciation, running costs, etc. I have driven an s1 elise and wasn't overly impressed with performance compared to my clio 172, would really like something that was a lot quicker on acceleration. The S2 is catching my eye for its looks and the fact that i am seeing a few 2001 models for 15-16k. Ideally laser blue with hard top.
Also I have heard that you need a 'reserve' of 3k per year to run the thing, this not including insurance, tyres, fuel, tax etc. How can this be the case!?
Trying to do as much research as poss before i sell my clio, so apologies for any dumb questions above!
>>> Edited by dank on Thursday 24th February 16:09
Welcome to the 
dank,
I'll do my best, you should search the forums for info on ownership etc and get familiar with www.elise-faq.info and www.elises.co.uk which will give you a good starting point on what's what in the world of the 'liz. I think the group Lotus website has expanded its info sections recently too as noted by mustard here www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=15&t=157996
All the below IMvHO of course....
Good job, first up get familiar with the specs of the various models. 111s, Sports Tourer and Race Tech are describe various spec levels. S1 and S2 are the marque series variants as I'm sure you know. We don't talk about VX**0's round here
Seriously, I personally think they have great merit, look good and offer great bang for your buck. I just prefer the look of the S1 and the Lotus heritage etc.
FWIW, try all the variants you're considering and pick on what YOU like best and what suits you. From what you say I'd guess that you'd prefer an S2 111s but that's probably going to set you back the best part of 18k+ at the moment. S1 111s would be my pick.
The 111s (in either S1 or S2 guise) is the quickest on paper. CR box and more horses means more grunt and pace. I doubt I'll attract too much criticism for saying it's generally considered to be the best of all worlds in terms of performance, tractability, useability etc amongst the Elise stable.
From what you wrote I'm guessing you probably drove a standard S1 which some find a little underpowered. I've driven a 172 Cup (ragged the arsehole out of it actually) and I can safely say that I'd have easily kept abreast of it on road or track in my (almost) standard S1 unless it was driven by someone with better
skills than I (not hard!).
You're not comparing Apples and Apples anyway mate - every journey in the Elise is an occasion and with the roof off it's simply fantastic. I've yet to find another car which can offer as much bang for your buck as the 'liz within the speed limits.
I went out in the snow today just to turn the engine over for a few minutes (didn't move it, just blipped the throttle a bit to warm it up and to hear the exhaust rasp and pop a bit) and I was p!ssing myself laughing like a 14 year-old in a human biology lesson. The neighbours think I'm
Nonsense. I'd say around £1-1.5k is around average. Depending on the condition and miles when you buy you should get a decent car for the money you're talking, especially if you go down the S1 111s route.
If you do buy one buy use your head not your heart and make sure you do so on condition rather than "I want a blue one" (but then do what I do and fall in love with one and buy it anyway!). Insist on a fully stamped up service book (by dealers or reputable specialists e.g. Lakeside, Sinclaires, Ragtop Roadsters etc) and get it checked out by a specialist before you buy (NOT the AA or RAC!). You'll know a shoddy one from one which has been cherished and properly looked after pretty easily I reckon.
Join SELOC and you'll get discounts on lots of things including servicing, labour, parts etc from various places.
FYI...
New set of tyres fitted and balanced is about £500.
A new SS sports zorst is about £500 fitted.
New disks and pads all round will be about £1k.
So basically when you're looking see if these have been replaced yet etc. as they tend to be the highest cost items (bar engine and gearbox I guess).
Servicing?
A Service - around £100-150
B Service - around £200-300
C Service - around £350-500
(Depends on where you get done - most places seem to charge a flat rate but some e.g. Fibreglass Services, charge only an hourly rate plus parts making it a lot cheaper).
Don't get me wrong, an Elise is not going to be hot hatch money to run, it will most likely be more, but if well looked after and properly maintained it certainly won't cost Ferarri money. You should be prepared though, as with any car, for bigger than expected servicing bills so it helps to have a fighting fund just in case. Nothing worse than buying a car that you can't afford to keep on the road eh!
No dumb questions mate - feel free to come back and ask again. We're pretty friendly in general and there are some real oracles out there (not me incidentally!).
Tim
P.S. if you do think of something though do try a search through the Forums here or on SELOC as likely as not you'll find the answer!
>> Edited by S Works on Thursday 24th February 18:55
dank, I'll do my best, you should search the forums for info on ownership etc and get familiar with www.elise-faq.info and www.elises.co.uk which will give you a good starting point on what's what in the world of the 'liz. I think the group Lotus website has expanded its info sections recently too as noted by mustard here www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=15&t=157996
All the below IMvHO of course....
dank said:
Hi
I am in the middle of trying to sell my much loved mk1 clio 172, and I am contemplating either an s1, or s1 111s or s2 sports tourer or race tech, or even a vx220 n/a!
Good job, first up get familiar with the specs of the various models. 111s, Sports Tourer and Race Tech are describe various spec levels. S1 and S2 are the marque series variants as I'm sure you know. We don't talk about VX**0's round here
Seriously, I personally think they have great merit, look good and offer great bang for your buck. I just prefer the look of the S1 and the Lotus heritage etc. FWIW, try all the variants you're considering and pick on what YOU like best and what suits you. From what you say I'd guess that you'd prefer an S2 111s but that's probably going to set you back the best part of 18k+ at the moment. S1 111s would be my pick.
dank said:
Which model Elise would be the best bet for long term ownership, depreciation, running costs, etc. I have driven an s1 elise and wasn't overly impressed with performance compared to my clio 172, would really like something that was a lot quicker on acceleration. The S2 is catching my eye for its looks and the fact that i am seeing a few 2001 models for 15-16k. Ideally laser blue with hard top.
The 111s (in either S1 or S2 guise) is the quickest on paper. CR box and more horses means more grunt and pace. I doubt I'll attract too much criticism for saying it's generally considered to be the best of all worlds in terms of performance, tractability, useability etc amongst the Elise stable.
From what you wrote I'm guessing you probably drove a standard S1 which some find a little underpowered. I've driven a 172 Cup (ragged the arsehole out of it actually) and I can safely say that I'd have easily kept abreast of it on road or track in my (almost) standard S1 unless it was driven by someone with better
skills than I (not hard!).
You're not comparing Apples and Apples anyway mate - every journey in the Elise is an occasion and with the roof off it's simply fantastic. I've yet to find another car which can offer as much bang for your buck as the 'liz within the speed limits.
I went out in the snow today just to turn the engine over for a few minutes (didn't move it, just blipped the throttle a bit to warm it up and to hear the exhaust rasp and pop a bit) and I was p!ssing myself laughing like a 14 year-old in a human biology lesson. The neighbours think I'm
dank said:
Also I have heard that you need a 'reserve' of 3k per year to run the thing, this not including insurance, tyres, fuel, tax etc. How can this be the case!?
Nonsense. I'd say around £1-1.5k is around average. Depending on the condition and miles when you buy you should get a decent car for the money you're talking, especially if you go down the S1 111s route.
If you do buy one buy use your head not your heart and make sure you do so on condition rather than "I want a blue one" (but then do what I do and fall in love with one and buy it anyway!). Insist on a fully stamped up service book (by dealers or reputable specialists e.g. Lakeside, Sinclaires, Ragtop Roadsters etc) and get it checked out by a specialist before you buy (NOT the AA or RAC!). You'll know a shoddy one from one which has been cherished and properly looked after pretty easily I reckon.
Join SELOC and you'll get discounts on lots of things including servicing, labour, parts etc from various places.
FYI...
New set of tyres fitted and balanced is about £500.
A new SS sports zorst is about £500 fitted.
New disks and pads all round will be about £1k.
So basically when you're looking see if these have been replaced yet etc. as they tend to be the highest cost items (bar engine and gearbox I guess).
Servicing?
A Service - around £100-150
B Service - around £200-300
C Service - around £350-500
(Depends on where you get done - most places seem to charge a flat rate but some e.g. Fibreglass Services, charge only an hourly rate plus parts making it a lot cheaper).
Don't get me wrong, an Elise is not going to be hot hatch money to run, it will most likely be more, but if well looked after and properly maintained it certainly won't cost Ferarri money. You should be prepared though, as with any car, for bigger than expected servicing bills so it helps to have a fighting fund just in case. Nothing worse than buying a car that you can't afford to keep on the road eh!
dank said:
Trying to do as much research as poss before i sell my clio, so apologies for any dumb questions above!
No dumb questions mate - feel free to come back and ask again. We're pretty friendly in general and there are some real oracles out there (not me incidentally!).
Tim
P.S. if you do think of something though do try a search through the Forums here or on SELOC as likely as not you'll find the answer!
>> Edited by S Works on Thursday 24th February 18:55
HTH 
cheers mate, thats a lot of great advice. I am tempted by the s1 111s, although i am getting very interested in the s2's shape! won't mention vx's again... 
!
Got to wait to sell my mint mk1 clio 172! hardly used 24k miles, 2001 x.....sorry Ted not advertising here, i know it's not in the right thread/forum.
! Got to wait to sell my mint mk1 clio 172! hardly used 24k miles, 2001 x.....sorry Ted not advertising here, i know it's not in the right thread/forum.
Just a nother point Dank,
The Elise, mechanically speaking, is quite simple. Parts are cheap - certainly no more expensive than performance hot hatch parts.
It's labour charges then seem to send costs rocketing.
There are few jobs that are beyond an entusiastic DIY spanner man.
Do it yourself and disks and pads all round could cost ya a less than £300.
Another vote for the S1 111S by the way.
I also agree with S Works - Don't worry too much about the performance figures on paper. I've driven some pretty hot hatches and nothing compares to the purity of the Lotus Elise. When kids ask me how fast does it go, or how fast 0 - 60 mate? I honestly can't tell them!
Have fun looking - some great cars to be had at the mo'
Dunc
The Elise, mechanically speaking, is quite simple. Parts are cheap - certainly no more expensive than performance hot hatch parts.
It's labour charges then seem to send costs rocketing.
There are few jobs that are beyond an entusiastic DIY spanner man.
Do it yourself and disks and pads all round could cost ya a less than £300.
Another vote for the S1 111S by the way.
I also agree with S Works - Don't worry too much about the performance figures on paper. I've driven some pretty hot hatches and nothing compares to the purity of the Lotus Elise. When kids ask me how fast does it go, or how fast 0 - 60 mate? I honestly can't tell them!
Have fun looking - some great cars to be had at the mo'
Dunc
dss123 said:
Just a nother point Dank,
The Elise, mechanically speaking, is quite simple. Parts are cheap - certainly no more expensive than performance hot hatch parts.
It's labour charges then seem to send costs rocketing.
There are few jobs that are beyond an entusiastic DIY spanner man.
Do it yourself and disks and pads all round could cost ya a less than £300.
Dunc!I have spent nothing outside routine servicing on my 2002/52 111S since I bought it new. I put rear tyres on at 17K, and I've just replaced the fronts for the first time at 31K. Still on factory original discs and pads, with plenty of life left. (I don't really use the brakes!)
My service costs have been (all at Lotuis dealer):
Initial £59
1st 'A' £266
2nd 'A £303 (inc. brake fluid)
1st 'B' £376
Rear tyres - £217 fitted inc. alignment
Front tyres - £215 fitted inc. alignment.
This is a total of £1436 over 32,000 miles in 2 years and 5 months. Incidentally I average about 36 mpg.
This is a cheap car to run! Buy one! In fact, buy mine, I'm likely to be selling it next month.
My service costs have been (all at Lotuis dealer):
Initial £59
1st 'A' £266
2nd 'A £303 (inc. brake fluid)
1st 'B' £376
Rear tyres - £217 fitted inc. alignment
Front tyres - £215 fitted inc. alignment.
This is a total of £1436 over 32,000 miles in 2 years and 5 months. Incidentally I average about 36 mpg.
This is a cheap car to run! Buy one! In fact, buy mine, I'm likely to be selling it next month.
Colour - Ardent red.
Sadly any PX is a no as I won't be replacing it straight away. Mrs. XXPLOD has a new job in London, and will be taking a train to work. I'll then drive her BMW 320td for about a year (makes sense, its a year old, under warranty with free servicing), then we'll probably PX that for something sporty we both like. New Boxster S is probably top of the wish list at present.
I don't really want to sell the 111S. It's fantastic, but I can't really justify having it sat in the garage as a weekend toy. Or alternatley hammering loads of miles on it and leaving a new diesel saloon in the garage!
Pricewise - hadn't quite worked out what to ask yet. I'm guessing on asking circa £18.5K. If someone was to make a sensible offer which saved me advertising etc... it would be seriously considered.
If you want more info. or indeed wanted to view the car - e-mail me off-line. Don't want to upset Ted!
Sadly any PX is a no as I won't be replacing it straight away. Mrs. XXPLOD has a new job in London, and will be taking a train to work. I'll then drive her BMW 320td for about a year (makes sense, its a year old, under warranty with free servicing), then we'll probably PX that for something sporty we both like. New Boxster S is probably top of the wish list at present.
I don't really want to sell the 111S. It's fantastic, but I can't really justify having it sat in the garage as a weekend toy. Or alternatley hammering loads of miles on it and leaving a new diesel saloon in the garage!
Pricewise - hadn't quite worked out what to ask yet. I'm guessing on asking circa £18.5K. If someone was to make a sensible offer which saved me advertising etc... it would be seriously considered.
If you want more info. or indeed wanted to view the car - e-mail me off-line. Don't want to upset Ted!
dank said:
I am contemplating either an s1, or s1 111s or s2 sports tourer or race tech, or even a vx220 n/a!
Just to add some balance: VX N/As are excellent value at the moment. They have depreceiated heavily and people are picking up 2000/Y cars for 12.5k. 14k will get you an 02/52 I'd have thought and early turbo's are buyable from 17.5k. It's worth trying all three cars first to see what floats your boat, they all have slightly different performance characteristics. I few people I know chose a VX over an elise as the 2.2 engine is more torquey in the mid-range and a bit easier to drive day-to-day as a consequence, however the styling and the badge are not to everyone's tastes, as i'm sure you know.
Ben
WillB on Seloc has a nice Ardent Red 111S at the moment
www.seloc.org search for WillB and tell him AlunR sent you!!!
He's also a member on here... www.pistonheads.com/members/showProfile.asp?memberId=17818
>> Edited by alunr on Saturday 26th February 18:37
www.seloc.org search for WillB and tell him AlunR sent you!!!
He's also a member on here... www.pistonheads.com/members/showProfile.asp?memberId=17818
>> Edited by alunr on Saturday 26th February 18:37
just to confuse the issue even more evo has tempted me by its article on sub 20k s1 exiges. have seen some here for just over 18k. thats tempting indeed! i assume that the running costs on an exige will be a lot higher than an s2 elise. evo estimated the depreciation to be 6k for 3 years on a 2000 exige. thought this was bit high. can anyone see them being 14k in 2008? does anyone who owns an s1 exige say what the yearly running costs are. i only want it for weekend car as use trains in week and dont have to use a car at all.
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