decisions, decisions
Discussion
having narrowed a large 'new car' list down to an elise s2 there now reamins a few last questions that i could do with some owners of said cars to help me with.
reading elise.co.uk and previous threads have answered many of my questions but still a few remain.
my first is about air con. how necessary is it in s2 elises? since having it in my current car i'v come to love having it in summer, but i wondered if it was needed once you have the top off in the elise? i have also heard it really helps in winter as the standard heater isn't that great, is this the case?
secondly a standard/111s question i know has been covered a few times on this forum but i have a slightly different angle i could do with answering. i understand the engine is better in the 111s, and to an elise owner probably noticably, but to someone new to elises and coming from an alfa gtv is it something i will regret if i got a standard version?
and finally a few small questions! can you buy the 111s wheels retrospectively? when did the short roofs become standard on s2's? and are all the dashes on s2's the blue ones or are some the orange ones?
i think thats it!! my dilema basically boils down to standard or 111s and aircon or not? standard giving me much more room in my budget and possible to upgrade exhausts, air intakes and wheels to 111s ones, where as the 111s are really the top end of my budget (especially with aircon and hard top that i desire).
much thanks for any opinions anyone has.
ben
reading elise.co.uk and previous threads have answered many of my questions but still a few remain.
my first is about air con. how necessary is it in s2 elises? since having it in my current car i'v come to love having it in summer, but i wondered if it was needed once you have the top off in the elise? i have also heard it really helps in winter as the standard heater isn't that great, is this the case?
secondly a standard/111s question i know has been covered a few times on this forum but i have a slightly different angle i could do with answering. i understand the engine is better in the 111s, and to an elise owner probably noticably, but to someone new to elises and coming from an alfa gtv is it something i will regret if i got a standard version?
and finally a few small questions! can you buy the 111s wheels retrospectively? when did the short roofs become standard on s2's? and are all the dashes on s2's the blue ones or are some the orange ones?
i think thats it!! my dilema basically boils down to standard or 111s and aircon or not? standard giving me much more room in my budget and possible to upgrade exhausts, air intakes and wheels to 111s ones, where as the 111s are really the top end of my budget (especially with aircon and hard top that i desire).
much thanks for any opinions anyone has.
ben
Recently been through a similar problem.....things to consider with the S over and above the standard:
More power
Touring pack standard
Hard top standard
Better stereo (I think)
Nicer lookin wheels
I'm sure there are a few more differences for the better...So IMH if your going to stick a 'Touring Pack on a standard model, it'd be worth stretching to an 'S'
Thats my two pennies anyway ;-)
More power
Touring pack standard
Hard top standard
Better stereo (I think)
Nicer lookin wheels
I'm sure there are a few more differences for the better...So IMH if your going to stick a 'Touring Pack on a standard model, it'd be worth stretching to an 'S'
Thats my two pennies anyway ;-)
As a new recent owner s2 11s owner can't really comment but stereo isn't too good hisses on FN. May be ariel, waiting for dealer to look at. My dash lights are orange, quite fancy the blue as it would match stereo and road angel. Anyone kknwo if this is easy to change?
Can reccommend 111s though, even in the running in period still great car, but you al know that anyway!
Can reccommend 111s though, even in the running in period still great car, but you al know that anyway!
OK, I have an S1 but I've read enough to give it a stab...
Good lad - we like you already
Necessary? Subjective question isn't it. I hear that it's excellent in the winter for defrosting/heating windscreen quicker than normal heater. Also it's sure to make residuals better by perhaps £500? BUT it will sap power which is bad, and it's another thing to go wrong/be serviced.
If you have the top off, Aircon seems pretty useless to me, apart from for giving your toes an icy blast. IMvHO aircon needs an almost sealed environment to work effectively and to hold the temp steady... but I'm ready to be corrected on that one by someone who has one and knows better than I!
"Better" is too subjective. It has more power than the std k series due to the VVC, also not mentioned above you have the additional CR 'box which helps keep it in the powerband more effectively. If I were you I would drive both to see what you prefer. The std car is still very capable and will be very different to the GTV... lighter, more raw, more direct, RWD etc.
You can get hold of the 111s wheels - dunno if you'd need to get new hubs or whatever though. Contact Lotus for info. Same on the other 2 questions, don't know I'm afraid. 'mustard' or 'apprentice' on here probably will though!
Drive both, then make your mind up. On a standard, if you get a good can, induction and replace the standard cat with either a sports one or a crp you should be able to get around another 10ish bhp IIRC. Then you get into head work, cams, and oily bits.
Depending on your intended use, length of ownership, intention on how much you want to tinker, I'd think carefully between 111s and std + mods. Many previously std cars will have sports cans, induction kits, gear linkage upgrades, perhaps CRP's etc done by owners so you'll get a good deal if you look around.
Hard tops are a matter for much debate, you don't really need one - I have one but I didn't use it once this winter even in the snow. I'd be more bothered about the current state of the car, it's history and what a specialist check-up reveals than cosmetics like that.
ben_bubbles said:
having narrowed a large 'new car' list down to an elise s2
Good lad - we like you already
ben_bubbles said:
my first is about air con. how necessary is it in s2 elises? since having it in my current car i'v come to love having it in summer, but i wondered if it was needed once you have the top off in the elise? i have also heard it really helps in winter as the standard heater isn't that great, is this the case?
Necessary? Subjective question isn't it. I hear that it's excellent in the winter for defrosting/heating windscreen quicker than normal heater. Also it's sure to make residuals better by perhaps £500? BUT it will sap power which is bad, and it's another thing to go wrong/be serviced.
If you have the top off, Aircon seems pretty useless to me, apart from for giving your toes an icy blast. IMvHO aircon needs an almost sealed environment to work effectively and to hold the temp steady... but I'm ready to be corrected on that one by someone who has one and knows better than I!
ben_bubbles said:
secondly a standard/111s question i know has been covered a few times on this forum but i have a slightly different angle i could do with answering. i understand the engine is better in the 111s, and to an elise owner probably noticably, but to someone new to elises and coming from an alfa gtv is it something i will regret if i got a standard version?
"Better" is too subjective. It has more power than the std k series due to the VVC, also not mentioned above you have the additional CR 'box which helps keep it in the powerband more effectively. If I were you I would drive both to see what you prefer. The std car is still very capable and will be very different to the GTV... lighter, more raw, more direct, RWD etc.
ben_bubbles said:
and finally a few small questions! can you buy the 111s wheels retrospectively? when did the short roofs become standard on s2's? and are all the dashes on s2's the blue ones or are some the orange ones?
You can get hold of the 111s wheels - dunno if you'd need to get new hubs or whatever though. Contact Lotus for info. Same on the other 2 questions, don't know I'm afraid. 'mustard' or 'apprentice' on here probably will though!
ben_bubbles said:
i think thats it!! my dilema basically boils down to standard or 111s and aircon or not? standard giving me much more room in my budget and possible to upgrade exhausts, air intakes and wheels to 111s ones, where as the 111s are really the top end of my budget (especially with aircon and hard top that i desire).
much thanks for any opinions anyone has.
ben
Drive both, then make your mind up. On a standard, if you get a good can, induction and replace the standard cat with either a sports one or a crp you should be able to get around another 10ish bhp IIRC. Then you get into head work, cams, and oily bits.
Depending on your intended use, length of ownership, intention on how much you want to tinker, I'd think carefully between 111s and std + mods. Many previously std cars will have sports cans, induction kits, gear linkage upgrades, perhaps CRP's etc done by owners so you'll get a good deal if you look around.
Hard tops are a matter for much debate, you don't really need one - I have one but I didn't use it once this winter even in the snow. I'd be more bothered about the current state of the car, it's history and what a specialist check-up reveals than cosmetics like that.
I don't have aircon or hardtop, and personally don't want either thank you.
Std. S2s have CR box as standard.
Basically, pick your budget, try as many cars as possible and find the right car for you. If ends up having hardtop and/or aircon then if not so what, I really don't think you'll miss them.
As stated above, condition is the key, these are not mass produced homogonised machines and will vary greatly in terms of production build quality and aftersales care of owner. The only way is to drive 'em (which isn't too much of a drag now is it!).
Again to echo the comments above VVC = more power, but standard gives more possibilities/value if you intend to upgrade the head etc. yourself. I have followed a number of 111S on twisty roads and kept up without a problem, and indeed was asked if my car was a 111R which it isn't!
Regards, Neil
PS. Whichever car you buy you will always want more power, learn to accept this fact and find a twistier road
Std. S2s have CR box as standard.
Basically, pick your budget, try as many cars as possible and find the right car for you. If ends up having hardtop and/or aircon then
if not so what, I really don't think you'll miss them. As stated above, condition is the key, these are not mass produced homogonised machines and will vary greatly in terms of production build quality and aftersales care of owner. The only way is to drive 'em (which isn't too much of a drag now is it!).
Again to echo the comments above VVC = more power, but standard gives more possibilities/value if you intend to upgrade the head etc. yourself. I have followed a number of 111S on twisty roads and kept up without a problem, and indeed was asked if my car was a 111R which it isn't!
Regards, Neil
PS. Whichever car you buy you will always want more power, learn to accept this fact and find a twistier road
ive had the rover and toyota engined cars
on both i did without aircon
I wouldnt say its a necessity
If its a hot sunny day I would rather have the roof off and get a tan rather than roof on with aircon
Even when its been 90degrees outside and uncomftably hot with roof off i would just enjoy it, as its not often we get good weather
Also in winter I never had a problem with demisting the windscreen. Sure aircon is better but I aint paying 1200 for it
on both i did without aircon
I wouldnt say its a necessity
If its a hot sunny day I would rather have the roof off and get a tan rather than roof on with aircon
Even when its been 90degrees outside and uncomftably hot with roof off i would just enjoy it, as its not often we get good weather
Also in winter I never had a problem with demisting the windscreen. Sure aircon is better but I aint paying 1200 for it
I have an S2 111s and a mate(ex rover engineer) has an S2.
Whenever he gets in my car he is praises the engine.
The VVC offers you more power than the S2 (big difference above 60mph) and you still have a linear power delivery with plenty of low-down torque.
I bought mine second hand and got both aircon and the hardtop.
The aircon demists the windows instantly in the winter and offers cold air in the summer. S2's without aircon used to have a different not as powerfull heater when non AC equipped. My heater impressed some other elise owners on an cold 1st Lotus day
....Something that my driving didnt...
I think that you should not reject a nice quality 111s if it does not have AC.
However I would pay at least another £500 for it.
The hardtop makes the car a lot quiter and look nicer, however you cant take it of as frequently as the soft top, so you miss on sunny days during the winter.
Again dont reject a car that does not have it.
All 111s have the short (easier to fit) roof.
This roof was introduced back in 2002 and on my car at least does not leak at all.
If you can afford an 111s go for it, if not I am sure that you will enjoy an S2(122bhp) as well.
Whatever you choose good luck and enjoy.
Nikos
Whenever he gets in my car he is praises the engine.
The VVC offers you more power than the S2 (big difference above 60mph) and you still have a linear power delivery with plenty of low-down torque.
I bought mine second hand and got both aircon and the hardtop.
The aircon demists the windows instantly in the winter and offers cold air in the summer. S2's without aircon used to have a different not as powerfull heater when non AC equipped. My heater impressed some other elise owners on an cold 1st Lotus day
....Something that my driving didnt... I think that you should not reject a nice quality 111s if it does not have AC.
However I would pay at least another £500 for it.
The hardtop makes the car a lot quiter and look nicer, however you cant take it of as frequently as the soft top, so you miss on sunny days during the winter.
Again dont reject a car that does not have it.
All 111s have the short (easier to fit) roof.
This roof was introduced back in 2002 and on my car at least does not leak at all.
If you can afford an 111s go for it, if not I am sure that you will enjoy an S2(122bhp) as well.
Whatever you choose good luck and enjoy.
Nikos
A lot seems to have been covered already I will say that the standard 120bhp S2 has the CR box from the S1 111s and the S2 111s has the box from the standard S1!
I've got an standard S2 which I bought in November. You do soon become used to the straight line urge and crave a bit more power. However, it's hardly keeping me awake at night. You'll find that on the occasions you do want more 'go' you're probably well over the speed limit anyway.
I have been thinking about changing for a 111s but if I did it would just be for the exrra power, the leather, carpets and air con etc don't interest me at all.
Like people have said, drive a few and see how you get on.
I've got an standard S2 which I bought in November. You do soon become used to the straight line urge and crave a bit more power. However, it's hardly keeping me awake at night. You'll find that on the occasions you do want more 'go' you're probably well over the speed limit anyway.
I have been thinking about changing for a 111s but if I did it would just be for the exrra power, the leather, carpets and air con etc don't interest me at all.
Like people have said, drive a few and see how you get on.
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