111S versus 111R without touring pack???

[bher]

Hello
Need your opinion....
I already ordered a 111S.... but with Rover out (half excuse), reading the forum,.... I NOW consider moving to a R. Arghhh The dealer told me that it is possible.
I know the diff in performance,... but I need an idea on the comfort of the ride. My wife is absolutely not car oriented. I still would like to take her in the Elise for visiting places during WE,...
Is the S more comfy than the R without touring pack? THAT IS MY QUESTION...
Need to email the dealer soon.
Thanks Ben (really excited suddently)

[Davey S1]

No big difference really apart from the air con.

Both have nice padded seats but teh S has air con as standard I believe.

Other than that its just some extra sound proofing, sun visors and lecky windows.

I would go for the R

[raw]

i think you should consider the engine as well as how comfy it is! obviously the r is a very different drive from the s. the s has more torque low down and is probably more drivable everyday. i have a civic type-r and whilst it is great fun to rag it, it only comes alive above 6000rpm which can get tiring after a while. just a thought...

[andrewm]

A standard 111R has 3/4 leather seats as standard. You will be missing out on a hard top, full leather, sound insulation, NVH hood, driving lamps, carpets, luggage net, electric windows and a passenger foot rest.

What you gain is a 6 speed gearbox, servo assistance, ABS and a much higher revving engine with addictive acceleration!

Air con is not standard on any of the cars. The big difference you will notice is the performance. On paper, there is not much to choose - drive one and they are like chalk and cheese.

[beachbum]

I have a 111R without the touring pack. It's a rarity. The dealer actually rang me back to confirm that I didnt want it, cos no had ordered one without upto that point.
I use it as a daily car, 7 miles each way to work, plus other trips that go with having to pick kids up and the like.
Its a great car to drive, but that is in comparison to the 106XN that it replaced, have never driven/used a 111S.
After 6 months of ownership and 3.5K miles I dont regret it in the slightest. I've rained on Snowed on and crapped on by birds and all of it was worth it. Especially the days after a crap day at work and as you walk out to the Car, you just start smiling. The NHS should seriously consider these for chronic depressives.

Any way back to the original thought, without the touring pack is no hardship. Only thing I am seriously considering are the Spots, but for £2000 to get all the other stuff that comes with it, I may as well pay £200 just for the bit I need

[xxplod]

[redacted]

[beachbum]

Car stereo in the 111R is already 4 speaker, its only the head unit that gets upgraded. RMS wattage is the same for both units. IIRC the only major differences are that the upgraqde supports DAB and has an MP3 unit input option too.
Mixed opinions on the DAB part of the unit. Seen a lot of posts about its lousy frequency holding.

[boggy]

Hi Guys

I agree with the other guys here, I own a S2 54 111R with touring pack, I would not bother to be honest I'd rather have gone for hard top and sports strip's but Mrs Boggy like's a little more comfort & as it's half hers I have to toe the line. I've upgraded the stereo & even at very high speed's with the roof off I can still here it fairly well. Air conditioning is a total waste of money as far as I'm concerned just take the roof off. If I were to buy again I'd get a Yellow 111r with black sport's strip's, Hard top, Sport's exhaust black leather interior and touring pack for Mrs boggy, it's a shame they don't make the Exige with soft top option but I suppose that would be the end of the 111r

Boggy

[bher]

Thanks already Guys for your answers.
I still don't know but have the diner to speak about it.
Nobody mention the change in suspension settings due to the engine weight. Is this only noticed by professionals (EVO journalist) or is this true?? They said something as is was less "harsch" (sorry for my english) than the others Elise...

[wantalotus]

i have 111r 54 plate. I do think the ride is a bit more compliant, grip still great, just not so crashy. went for all options inc custom plate, not regretting it a bit. stereo is a bit poor on DAB though. engine is soooooooooooooo adictive, just another animal above 6000rpm

[ryallm]

In response to the original question, it is a complete no brainer in my book - the 111R is a much better car. What do you want, a car with a weedy little obsolete engine in the back from a company which has just gone bust, or state of the art Japanese screamer? Get the R - you know it makes sense :-)

[X-Box]

Having changed a Jan'05 S for a Mar'05 R, my thoughts are as follows:

- You can totaly feel the different setup of the cars, steering, bump handling, poise on the motorway
- Breaks are more confidence inspiring
- S power delivery is good, but the R is in a different leauge
- Superior gearchange/gearbox

I dropped A/C, but got the TP. Didn't consider dropping the TP at the time, but can't say it factors in the R's plus points?

When you say "comfy" what do you mean?
- Ride is ultimately the same quality.
- Would you miss lecky windows? No??
- Seats look better with full leather
- Insulated roof is quieter

Lotus probably build them all with TP under the skin (sound insulation), so you may get a few bonus bits anyhow.


>> Edited by X-Box on Monday 18th April 20:24

[beachbum]

Mine is officially with out TP, but it came with Carpets and passenger foot rest, So waht was said earlier about it being built with the TP as the default, seems to be true

[turks111]

Been here as well - Had a 111S on order, when I finally went to drive one I also took out the 'R' - I just had to change my order. So addictive past 6100, do it in second, third (start laughing) into forth now just smilling like an idiot and just keep going - absolutely brilliant. Just for the record I reckon an 'R' would keep up with an 'S' up to 6100rpm anyway - so the increased low down torque of the 'S' is kind of irrelevant - only IMHO and only based on too relatively short test drives....

Not sure how your purchasing this car, but with the increased residual value of an 'R' you may aswell just keep the touring pack. Will work out pretty close on a monthly basis! I went for everything excluding the hardtop, even getting some Mel Broom re-trim bits - just couldn't help myself in the end lol

[Lotusnick S2]

I have late 2002 111S (non- power windows -locks, etc) and test drove the Exige a month ago.

raw said:

i think you should consider the engine as well as how comfy it is! obviously the R is a very different drive from the s. the s has more torque low down and is probably more drivable everyday. i have a civic type-r and whilst it is great fun to rag it, it only comes alive above 6000rpm which can get tiring after a while. just a thought...

This is something you should really consider.
I found engine frustrating
It felt a lot less powerful until the change of cam at 6500rpm. And after 6500 up to the limiter was more powerful.
Overall the VVC car felt a lot more responsive and easier to drive fast.

andrewm said:

What you gain is a 6 speed gearbox, servo assistance, ABS and a much higher revving engine with addictive acceleration! Air con is not standard on any of the cars. The big difference you will notice is the performance. On paper, there is not much to choose - drive one and they are like chalk and cheese.

You need the 6 speed gearbox to compensate for the lack of torque. Gear ratios and final drive are shorter than even the least powerful Elise(122bhp).
The R's 4th gear is as long as the 111s's 3rd
If the 111s had a similar gearbox with such low ratios and final drive, the difference in performance would be massive in favour of the 111s (apart from top speed).

Thrashing the engine is not addictive but a necessity, because it is the only way you can accelerate the way an Elise deserves.

The ABS is always a positive extra but the addition of the servo assistance robs of the rawness of Elise.

Yes they are like chalk and cheese.
The 111s has a usable power band from really down low up to the limiter while the R for only 2K rpm.

If you see 5th Gears test of the R, Tiff Needell said that "the R's engine is like an old turbo engine, nothing under 6500rpm and then Bang"

Does a 1sec difference to 100 mph make such difference to you?
Or is it the top end speed?
On track I expect R to be slightly faster but a lot less usable on the road.
Plus I expect the Toyota engine to last longer the K-series.
Althought I cant complain about mine since it has done 34K miles without nothing going wrong. (touch wood)

Of course horses for courses.

Unless you do long test drives on both you cannot tell which is the best for you.

My 2p
Nikos

[bher]

Waouw
Thanks Guys for all the nice, precise and experienced answer
Does anybody have a graph with torque and power/ RPM for both engine?
That would be really interesting...to evaluate sub6000 rpm power/torque
Ben

[Lotusnick S2]

bher said:

Waouw Thanks Guys for all the nice, precise and experienced answer Does anybody have a graph with torque and power/ RPM for both engine? That would be really interesting...to evaluate sub6000 rpm power/torque Ben

1st of all to compare to graph taken from 2 different dynos at a different day it would be very wrong.
Even if you dyno an 111s and 111r on the same dyno on the same day this will be half the truth.

There are other factors that should be taken into account like weight (R is heavier) and gear ratios (shorter in R so it compensates for the less torque compared to the 111S).

The only way you can and should make up your mind is to drive both, back to back and for a few miles.
You might prefer the linear delivery of the 111S or the feeling of the sudden surge of power of the 111r.

Either you way you are going to enjoy owning both as they are Fantastic cars

Good luck and post some pictures when you get her