Help settling an argument - Elise 1.8 and Integra

[havoc]

Can anyone help me settle a work debate.

I am contending that on track, against a stock 1.8 Elise (120bhp), an Integra Type R (old shape, DC2) would be at least as quick, and on a power circuit like Donington would arguably be quicker. (OK, Anglesey might well be the other way around)

My colleagues at work are telling me I'm living in cloud-cuckoo land and that an Elise will be clearly be quicker. Yet I have been at Donington and clearly closed in on and passed an Elise (not on his cool down lap, before anyone gets cheeky!), and I'm not the worlds best driver (but I do acknowledge the ITR is probably easier to drive at the limit than a mid-engine rwd lightweight). So I'm interested to know if Donny was just a cautious Elise driver, or if I've actually got a point.

I'm looking for opinions from people who've owned, or at least driven, both, ideally on-track. Alternatively from people who've done trackdays against the other car, their experiences.

Oh - no Elise Sports or 111S's - I know how capable they are!

Thanks guys,

M.

[tuscan_thunder]

I'd probably agree the ITR would beat a stock Elise round a track.

I'll dig out Car magazine's handling test from 1997 where both cars were tested on track and timed.

[Davey S1]

I was up against an ITR at Castle Combe in my old standard S1. In the corners I was all over him and he was holding me up.

After a few laps we got onto the straight and he indicated left to let me pass but the car just ran out of steam and I didnt have the power to get past which was really frustrating.

So on a small tight track I would say the Elise would be faster but throw in some long straights where you get up to and over a ton and the standard car struggles.

>> Edited by Davey S1 on Friday 10th June 13:19

[VTECMatt]

Having owned an EK9, and driven both the DC2 and DC5 on and off track they are about the same, a good driver in an Elise would fend off any of the above thou IMHO. The Elise is much quicker around Anglesea thou.

[S Works]

I think at this point it needs someone to ignore the facts completely and point out that the Elise is a sh!tload cooler and frankly that's all that matters.

Honda my @rse!

Job's a good'un

[havoc]

Some constructive replies there! Thanks for the comments.

Cheers Matt - didn't know you posted on here, or I'd have PM'd you.

The summary seems to be pretty close to my conclusion, except that I think I'd underestimated a bit how much better the Elsie would corner. Knew I wouldn't be in with a snowball's around Ty Croes, though!

I went on a blat this afternoon around country lanes (thinking "please don't introduce road charging and GPS!!!), saw 5 Elsie's, not one 'teg. Rarity has it's own cachet! As for cool...how cool is warranty work every 3 months?!?

Only jesting...Elise has tempted me before, just not practical enough at the mo'

Tuscan - if you've got that article, a scan or even just the stats from it would be interesting. All the comments are appreciated, but are still driver-vs-driver, not absolute.

Same question is on the JapChat forum, and the replies aren't FAR off these...I think the answer is it depends on the circuit - e.g. at Ty Croes the Elsie would take it, at Donny it's agreed the ITR would have the upper hand.

But I have the answer: An Elise-Type-R!!!

>> Edited by havoc on Friday 10th June 21:15

[VTECMatt]

or an Elise with Audi engine

Driving an Elise is something special and is far more rewarding.

[shot2bits]

I've driven an Integra Type R - Elise is quicker to 60 or 70 and way faster around the corners but the Type R has it from 70 upwards... Different cars totally! I wouldn't even compare - Type R has 4 seats and is not a racer in the same way as an Elise...

[Ju.]

The ITR will be alot easier to drive faster If the elise can be driven properly it will be quicker round most tracks than the ITR.

As an example my old clio FRS destroying straightline pace suspension and 6 pots brilliant track car and very esay to drive on the limit round the nurburg ring we where putting in times within a few seconds of each other and i was not using the elise to its full potential i have only had it a few months and that was my first track outing.

[havoc]

Ju. said:

The ITR will be alot easier to drive faster If the elise can be driven properly it will be quicker round most tracks than the ITR.

First point very fair.

Second point I would still contend it depends on the track - fast circuits like Donny and Combe (and I guess Spa and the 'ring) will favour the Integra.

Put a more powerful engine in the Elise however...

[Ju.]

Yeah i think the more power circuits will favour the ITR but after doing the ring i would say its not a power circuit.

But on most tracks i would put my money on an elise i always used to think they where not that quick until i drove one they are still very underatted i believe

[gfun]

Two more tests

See how far both got in the same time on a gallon of petrol?

Mesure the size of grin after 3 laps :-D

[havoc]

gfun said:

Two more tests See how far both got in the same time on a gallon of petrol? Mesure the size of grin after 3 laps :-D

1) Close - combined cycle on the ITR is >30mpg! Have had 35 on a long M-way trip. But fuel economy's for wuss's, anyway!!!

2) Yeah, OK, that's fair...there's no way a stock Elise can compete with the glorious noise of the best-sounding 4-pot in existence, is there now?!?

>> Edited by havoc on Monday 13th June 18:24

Edit: PS - any chance I can have a play in your Elise, just for comparison purposes, you understand!

>> Edited by havoc on Monday 13th June 18:25

[gfun]

havoc said:

gfun said: Two more tests See how far both got in the same time on a gallon of petrol? Mesure the size of grin after 3 laps :-D 1) Close - combined cycle on the ITR is >30mpg! Have had 35 on a long M-way trip. But fuel economy's for wuss's, anyway!!! 2) Yeah, OK, that's fair...there's no way a stock Elise can compete with the glorious noise of the best-sounding 4-pot in existence, is there now?!? >> Edited by havoc on Monday 13th June 18:24 Edit: PS - any chance I can have a play in your Elise, just for comparison purposes, you understand! >> Edited by havoc on Monday 13th June 18:25

So you think 5 miles is close!

The Elise only drops to 35mpg if you thrash it!

Also all the greenpeace girls chained to your rear bumper would slow you down.

Shame realy as I would have let you have a go but; you see your so used to the arm chair like cumfort and driver aids that ITR provides, I dont think you would be safe (I'm just thinking of you).

And just thought of another - number of people who smile and wave at you :-)

[havoc]

gfun said:

Also all the greenpeace girls chained to your rear bumper would slow you down. Shame realy as I would have let you have a go but; you see your so used to the arm chair like cumfort and driver aids that ITR provides, I dont think you would be safe (I'm just thinking of you). And just thought of another - number of people who smile and wave at you :-)

Fair cop! But not all the greenpeace girls are greasy...
...and at least I have back seats in the ITR!!

You know, I think I could slum it in an Elise for a day...I won't miss the recaro's and the ABS too much, I'm sure. As for safe...well I managed to provoke her into power-on oversteer yesterday ...quite a pleasant surprise in a front-driver!! Oh - your rev counter does go to nearly 9,000, doesn't it???

Ahh...it's no good, I can't take the p out of Elise's with any seriousness. Can't we at least gang up on the dark side that is the VX-220?!?

[tuscan_thunder]

from Car magazine's handling test at Castle Combe in 1997:

Integra Type-R: 78.94 seconds
standard Elise: 79.05 seconds



I do not know the layout of Castle Combe but I would imagine on a faster circuit the ITR would be a small bit faster, twistier ones, the Elise a wee bit faster. Think the variation would be about half a second ish either way depending on track.

[havoc]

Cheers Tuscan...owe you a beer

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