dual air-bags on an Elise ?
Discussion
Try this...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.
After seeing Shangani's car with the harnesses, it is brilliant and no need for the cut out seats.
>> Edited by gooby on Wednesday 26th October 18:13
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.
After seeing Shangani's car with the harnesses, it is brilliant and no need for the cut out seats.
>> Edited by gooby on Wednesday 26th October 18:13
gooby said:
Try this...
<a href="www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=208006">www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.</a>
After seeing Shangani's car with the harnesses, it is brilliant and no need for the cut out seats.
Now THAT is a bl**dy good post. Will price up some harnesses & a bar for Xmas I think.
gooby said:
Try this...
<a href="www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=208006">www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.</a>
After seeing Shangani's car with the harnesses, it is brilliant and no need for the cut out seats.
>> Edited by gooby on Wednesday 26th October 18:13
Thats not really true. Harnesses are a right pain on the road, especially as they need to be done up tight. You then can't see out of badly sighted junctions without releasing them. Also the lack of slotted seats is really not ideal.
DanH said:
Thats not really true. Harnesses are a right pain on the road, especially as they need to be done up tight. You then can't see out of badly sighted junctions without releasing them. Also the lack of slotted seats is really not ideal.
We had this discussion over a pint. For normal road driving you leave the harness "relaxed". It is still enough to hold you but enough to allow you to do the streo look out of junctions etc. When you get spirited then you tighten up.
Shangani's car is beautifully set up for the harnesses to the point he has a remote for the stereo. Believe me there is no reason once you have seen his set up to get the holey seats.
gooby said:
Thats not really true. Harnesses are a right pain on the road, especially as they need to be done up tight. You then can't see out of badly sighted junctions without releasing them. Also the lack of slotted seats is really not ideal.
We had this discussion over a pint. For normal road driving you leave the harness "relaxed". It is still enough to hold you but enough to allow you to do the streo look out of junctions etc. When you get spirited then you tighten up.
Shangani's car is beautifully set up for the harnesses to the point he has a remote for the stereo. Believe me there is no reason once you have seen his set up to get the holey seats.
Thats insane leaving the harnesses loose (imho). They have no inertia Rheel and depend entirely on you being securely held down.
Harnesses in the Elise are such pain because of the seats. I don't see how you get around the fact that the width of the seats makes you set the harnesses too far apart without the correct seat. Lotus don't force you to buy those seats when you ask them for harnesses just for fun. I know its a shortcut lots take, but I remain unconvinced.
Actually I have both inertial reels in the car and the harnesses. I admit harnesses are a pain in traffic for the reasons that were mentioned. I would add though:
The waist belt adjusts seperately from the shoulder straps. With that pulled tight, submarining is impossible - you would be squelched before you moved forward in the seat. The benefit is that you get much better braking control as you do not slide forward in the seat on braking. In addition, the inertial reel belt is actually less likely to prevent submarining than the harnesses.
You do not get flung around in the seat on cornering - a problem on smooth leather seats, but better on alcantara.
Depending on the harness bar you use, there is some variation in the width of the shouder straps. 3 inch shoulder straps would be impossible with standard seats and if you want to go racing - ie FIA racing, you will need the wider straps and special clip harness - which incidentally will not pass an MOT.
The straps start really close to my neck and close in together the lower they get. Unless you have shoulders the width of the headrest ie pathologically puny, you are not going to go through them - and definitely not if they have been adjusted properly. If I managed to generate enough forward force to escape the harnesses, you would be picking me up with a spatula anyway. I have found them much more secure on the race track than the inertial reels. I will try to post a picture if I can work out how. If I start racing seriously, I would opt for a proper racing seat with side and head protection, not the motorsport seat.
If you wanted to be pathological about it, you could in theory use them at the same time as the inertial reel belts. Then again if I was going to do that, I might opt for the airbags, traction control, ABS brakes, Roll cage, added life insurance etc etc. As an A&E consultant, I have seen my fair share of crash victims and gone to crash scenes in the chopper. Most of the really high speed crashes, it would not matter what sort of arrangement you were using. Having also seen a large number of injuries and deaths related to airbags - both ones that have deployed causing accidents and ones that have literally smashed the faces of drivers and passengers. Don't even think about an aftermarket system.
The waist belt adjusts seperately from the shoulder straps. With that pulled tight, submarining is impossible - you would be squelched before you moved forward in the seat. The benefit is that you get much better braking control as you do not slide forward in the seat on braking. In addition, the inertial reel belt is actually less likely to prevent submarining than the harnesses.
You do not get flung around in the seat on cornering - a problem on smooth leather seats, but better on alcantara.
Depending on the harness bar you use, there is some variation in the width of the shouder straps. 3 inch shoulder straps would be impossible with standard seats and if you want to go racing - ie FIA racing, you will need the wider straps and special clip harness - which incidentally will not pass an MOT.
The straps start really close to my neck and close in together the lower they get. Unless you have shoulders the width of the headrest ie pathologically puny, you are not going to go through them - and definitely not if they have been adjusted properly. If I managed to generate enough forward force to escape the harnesses, you would be picking me up with a spatula anyway. I have found them much more secure on the race track than the inertial reels. I will try to post a picture if I can work out how. If I start racing seriously, I would opt for a proper racing seat with side and head protection, not the motorsport seat.
If you wanted to be pathological about it, you could in theory use them at the same time as the inertial reel belts. Then again if I was going to do that, I might opt for the airbags, traction control, ABS brakes, Roll cage, added life insurance etc etc. As an A&E consultant, I have seen my fair share of crash victims and gone to crash scenes in the chopper. Most of the really high speed crashes, it would not matter what sort of arrangement you were using. Having also seen a large number of injuries and deaths related to airbags - both ones that have deployed causing accidents and ones that have literally smashed the faces of drivers and passengers. Don't even think about an aftermarket system.
Don't really follow your post. Using inertia as well as harnesses clearly won't help. Harnesses are designed to hold you firmly strapped down against the seat whilst spreading the load across a large area, intertia reels are designed to decelerate you as you get thrown forwards and obviously the load is less evenly spread but you decelerate slower. They are mutually incompatible, and its why loose harnesses are a bad idea. Interestingly MG had an inertia real harness system in the SV which I guess would be a good compromise.
As to the harnesses without slots, its not just about the straps spreading, its about how the loadings are applied to your body. I dunno if Elise seats have changed much, but they would have come down too wide and too high with the standard seats in mine.
I also got put of mounting the harnesses because lotus always stated it was unsafe to have both systems mounted on the same mounting point. Dunno if they were being overly cautious due to litigation or not, but it put me off.
I agree about airbags though.
Id either get seats/harnesses/bar etc and ditch the intertias or stick with inertias
Ive had harnesses on the road for about a year now (with seats etc) and dont find them too bad. I havnt got 3" racing jobbies though - just 2" MOT legal with the seatbelt fastener rather than the aircraft one.
These are probably not quite as good as 3" with crotch strap etc on track (but work fine if you adjust them/wear them properly) but on the road they are much more convenient - you can have the hip strap done up really tight, and when you come to junctions just tug the quick release to give you a couple of inches movements at the shoulders...then just tug em tight after...thats what I do anyway
Feels a lot safer having them on in the car ...personally I dont hold much faith in airbags etc.....if youve got to that stage its too late IMO...Id rather rely on driving defensively.....used to ride a bike for 15 years - never had ABS, ESP, bags n stuff on that and still survived OK
Ive had harnesses on the road for about a year now (with seats etc) and dont find them too bad. I havnt got 3" racing jobbies though - just 2" MOT legal with the seatbelt fastener rather than the aircraft one.
These are probably not quite as good as 3" with crotch strap etc on track (but work fine if you adjust them/wear them properly) but on the road they are much more convenient - you can have the hip strap done up really tight, and when you come to junctions just tug the quick release to give you a couple of inches movements at the shoulders...then just tug em tight after...thats what I do anyway
Feels a lot safer having them on in the car ...personally I dont hold much faith in airbags etc.....if youve got to that stage its too late IMO...Id rather rely on driving defensively.....used to ride a bike for 15 years - never had ABS, ESP, bags n stuff on that and still survived OK
DanH: I was not being serious about using inertial reels at the same time as the harnesses - that was stated tongue in cheek if you read my post - I think I used the word pathological (ie not a good thing). I use the harnesses on the track and when I go for a serious blat. I have a long body ie tall sitting height, so the harnesses sit fine on my shoulders.
I used harnesses alone for several months, but with numerous short hops, put the inertial reels back on as well. I am not the only person to have done this either. Bogie makes a few very valid points as well. I would far rather have harnesses than airbags. And as an ex biker myself, feel pretty secure in the elise.
I used harnesses alone for several months, but with numerous short hops, put the inertial reels back on as well. I am not the only person to have done this either. Bogie makes a few very valid points as well. I would far rather have harnesses than airbags. And as an ex biker myself, feel pretty secure in the elise.
shangani said:
I used harnesses alone for several months, but with numerous short hops, put the inertial reels back on as well. I am not the only person to have done this either. Bogie makes a few very valid points as well. I would far rather have harnesses than airbags. And as an ex biker myself, feel pretty secure in the elise.
I'm not disagreeing about safety in the Elise. I just didn't like to see advice to have harnesses loose handed out like that. I believe it is dangerously incorrect.
As to fitting both, I really don't know. I understand why its convenient to have both and have/had both on my noble & 911, but that is with factory design and approval. Up to the individual owner in the end.
Bogies point is valid and about the only practical way to do it. Its a bit of a faff though and not great if someone piles into the back of you at the junction
He has the correct seats as well My father always says
"You can be the best driver/biker in the world , all it takes is one driver not paying attention.."
As a Londoner I regularly see the following:
Mums in a 4x4 on the phone, feeding crisps to junior in the back (turning around to do so!).
Lorry driver looking down at mobile crawling along at about 5mph.
Dodgy mini-cab drivers tooting at anyone on the road after 11pm trying to pick up customers. Braking hard (from 30mph) and lowering their window offering their 'cheapest price' - which is normally twice the regular fare.
Your skill as a driver has no bearing on external factors. So we have to insure the best safety for passenegers and ourselves. I also cycle quite a bit in London - that has really opened my eyes.
I personally feel driving should be reviewed every 5 years. Certain professions require knowledge to be updated/re-tested. So why not an important skill like driving ? With reviews , people will be more aware of their driving. Just to let them know the bad habits the've picked up. I've seen so many really bad accidents in London. Just my thoughts .
R
Safe driving guys!
"You can be the best driver/biker in the world , all it takes is one driver not paying attention.."
As a Londoner I regularly see the following:
Mums in a 4x4 on the phone, feeding crisps to junior in the back (turning around to do so!).
Lorry driver looking down at mobile crawling along at about 5mph.
Dodgy mini-cab drivers tooting at anyone on the road after 11pm trying to pick up customers. Braking hard (from 30mph) and lowering their window offering their 'cheapest price' - which is normally twice the regular fare.
Your skill as a driver has no bearing on external factors. So we have to insure the best safety for passenegers and ourselves. I also cycle quite a bit in London - that has really opened my eyes.
I personally feel driving should be reviewed every 5 years. Certain professions require knowledge to be updated/re-tested. So why not an important skill like driving ? With reviews , people will be more aware of their driving. Just to let them know the bad habits the've picked up. I've seen so many really bad accidents in London. Just my thoughts .
R
Safe driving guys!
I would have to disagree.
Advanced drivers do not call it an accident anymore. It is surprising what you can do to control the driving of others.
Take your advanced driving and if you do as they say, show some inteligence in your decisions then you will never have another accident, fault or not.
Advanced drivers do not call it an accident anymore. It is surprising what you can do to control the driving of others.
Take your advanced driving and if you do as they say, show some inteligence in your decisions then you will never have another accident, fault or not.
gooby said:
I would have to disagree.
Advanced drivers do not call it an accident anymore. It is surprising what you can do to control the driving of others.
Take your advanced driving and if you do as they say, show some inteligence in your decisions then you will never have another accident, fault or not.
Tend to agree with that as I've had some training with cadence and have begun to understand what needs to be done. Nontheless its a long road to HPC entry, and even within HPC their are levels! One of their members stacked a car last year too, so even the best drivers cock up
"Bogies point is valid and about the only practical way to do it. Its a bit of a faff though and not great if someone piles into the back of you at the junction He has the correct seats as well "
so youd move about 1" at the shoulders (lap belt done up tight - more so than intertias) thats all - similar shock to what you get when intertias lock up IMO
as for the advanced driving thing - there is no such thing as an accident...theres always cause and effect....well maybe acts of God I guess
so youd move about 1" at the shoulders (lap belt done up tight - more so than intertias) thats all - similar shock to what you get when intertias lock up IMO
as for the advanced driving thing - there is no such thing as an accident...theres always cause and effect....well maybe acts of God I guess
dragstar said:
There's nothing you can do when your waiting at a roundabout, with lots of oncoming traffic, and a car ploughs into the back of you, surely?
How does having done advanced driving help in that circumstance?
Be monitoring the cars behind you and plan an escape route? Not saying its easy!
bogie said:
"Bogies point is valid and about the only practical way to do it. Its a bit of a faff though and not great if someone piles into the back of you at the junction He has the correct seats as well "
so youd move about 1" at the shoulders (lap belt done up tight - more so than intertias) thats all - similar shock to what you get when intertias lock up IMO
as for the advanced driving thing - there is no such thing as an accident...theres always cause and effect....well maybe acts of God I guess
I didn't think intertias locked solid but rather slowed you down slightly more progressively. Especially with seat tensioners?
Its not like lap belts are any good, and presumably thats what loose harnesses are like.
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