111S Questions?

[jitsukadave]

Right, it's winter, christmas is taken care of, I'm going to be made redundant in a couple of months, with a nice pay-off (I hope), so it's time to blow that cash and get the Lotus I've been banging on about for about 6 months...

Originally I was looking at getting a standard 115bhp Elise, and fitting a K20a engine, but now my income is less secure, that's not really an option. The 111R is also not an option for me.

So, I can get a standard Elise, or a 111S. My only real issue with these models is their gearboxes, but I can work that out later.
In the mean time, is it worth me spending a couple of grand less on the standard Elise, and getting the engine ported, balanced, etc the geometry sorted and a new set of rubber (and probably the 111S wheels); or getting the 111S with all the extras (it'll be an every day car, so the little extras will help sway the misses)? I have heard - maybe wrongly - that the VVC head is 'sealed', and I'm taking that to mean that balancing the camshafts and porting it is not possible? Whilst I couldn't really get much work done for a few months, I would probably like to get it more track focused later.

So - what do you guys think - get the standard and tune it up right away, or get the 111S? Or am I missing a trick with something else?

[StuartB]

IMHO I think you are going to be wasting money, just have a look at the pre-modifed cars out there why go to the expense of doing it yourself?

196bhp K Series
www.pistonheads.com/sales/54961.htm

JDM Spec Honda
www.pistonheads.com/sales/54327.htm

Factory 160S
www.pistonheads.com/sales/57391.htm
No doubt the owner will be along in a minute to sing the praises of that car Got to think that the factory build is going to be easier to insure too over something with hot cams, ported head and modified CPU! Not to mention that car will hold its value better

The 111S is a nicer car in, you can achieve lots with that or the standard one - standard one is probably more flexible though

Also, this is worth a read if you haven't been there already: www.dvapower.co.uk/

[shangani]

Right now is a buyers market - you could probably pick up an S1 111s in good nick with all the desireable mods for far less than getting a standard car and speccing it up. It is a quick car, slightly more front end grip and a few creature comforts (more than the standard S1 at any rate) Look through the classifieds. Make sure you get a full service history and have a car checked by a specialist.

[S Works]

StuartB said:

Factory 160S www.pistonheads.com/sales/57391.htm No doubt the owner will be along in a minute to sing the praises of that car Got to think that the factory build is going to be easier to insure too over something with hot cams, ported head and modified CPU! Not to mention that car will hold its value better

Nah, you don't want that old bag of b*ll*cks

[jitsukadave]

I'm looking at an S2 - just my prefernece on looks and I like the audio install - though I've never driven one on a track.

I'm thinking of about 15k mark, and for that I can get a lower priced 111S from the classifeds or a mid-priced ST/RT/vanilla.

I do have some issue with cars being modified - as in the work undertaken I may not agree with. If it ends with air filter and exhaust, that's ok, but I unless somebody says they went to Emerald & Dave Walker for the tuning and somebody like Vibration free for the balancing, I'm never quite sure what the level of workmanship will be. I've ben stung with stuff like that before, so I don't really want to go there again.
Though I agree with the factory build being easier to insure & resell (for exactly my reasons for not buying pre-modified cars).

>> Edited by jitsukadave on Wednesday 7th December 19:02

[hbaumhardt]

jitsukadave said:

I would probably like to get it more track focused later.

*assuming* you are after an S2 for practicality ? If so then the I would suggest that the first steps to track focus would be suspension (LSS or Nitron) and rubber (195 A048s) not power ... for example;

To take an S2 111s to equivalent 135R suspension and tyre spec will cost £3.5k (plans)
To take an S2 135R to equivalent 111S 160 bhp will cost £2k (dvapower)

I'm not making any recommendations, just pointing this out.

[jitsukadave]

hbaumhardt said:

jitsukadave said: I would probably like to get it more track focused later. *assuming* you are after an S2 for practicality ? If so then the I would suggest that the first steps to track focus would be suspension (LSS or Nitron) and rubber (195 A048s) not power ... for example; To take an S2 111s to equivalent 135R suspension and tyre spec will cost £3.5k (plans) To take an S2 135R to equivalent 111S 160 bhp will cost £2k (dvapower) I'm not making any recommendations, just pointing this out.

Thanks for that prices - it's not always easy finding this stuff out. That also means getting a 111S to 135R standards costs about the same as a 135R! Looks like the 111S will be the choice then (electric windows and all!)

[hbaumhardt]

Quick checkpoint as this caught me out on my 2003 111S - central locking, electric windows and a hard top did not come as standard on the 111S until (I think) 2004 model year. Anyway whatchu want all that extra weight for - its just more stuff to go wrong.

[shangani]

I agree on the C/L and E/W, but the hardtop has its used in winter. Shortroof hardtop looks good as well.

BTW - sinclaires are doing a special: LSS suspension + 048 tyres on OZ's for 2K.

>> Edited by shangani on Wednesday 7th December 20:43

[kevin ritson]

111S is a great everyday car, the gearbox is better suited for the compromise and hasn't bothered me on trackdays, either. Plus I strip out everything I can when I go on track, front mats and insulated soft-top weigh a bit

Pre-'04 cars (likely at the price you've set) don't have as much kit anyway and if you want to Honda it in the future silly things like the alloys are a better bet - Lotus actually tell owners not to use the 6-spokers used on the std S2 on a 111S because of the extra weight.

VVC's not as tuneable though, if you've got your heart set on an S2, decide what you're going to do with it:

Honda: 111S is a good base
Tune the K: std 120Bhp
Track slag that happens to be on the road: 135R (if you can get one on budget)

>> Edited by kevin ritson on Wednesday 7th December 21:51

[NDT]

am I the only one who finds the series 2 specs utterly confusing?

so, a new 111R has a Toyota VVTL engine.

I am assuming that a S2 111S had a K-series VVT (like a S1 111).
Is this right?

[shangani]

Correct - the S2 111s develops 156 bhp and the S1 111s 143bhp.

[beachbum]

hbaumhardt said:

Quick checkpoint as this caught me out on my 2003 111S - central locking, electric windows and a hard top did not come as standard on the 111S until (I think) 2004 model year. Anyway whatchu want all that extra weight for - its just more stuff to go wrong.

Electric windows actually weigh less than the manual version !!

[hbaumhardt]

beachbum said:

Electric windows actually weigh less than the manual version !!

... and are probably more reliable.

[GTRene]

hbaumhardt said:

beachbum said: Electric windows actually weigh less than the manual version !! ... and are probably more reliable.

and more relaxt and I like the central locking(comes in handy in the winter too)
the radio I almost never use, so I don't realy would miss that, and together with some speakers and cables weight around??? 5kg??
and is only useble when driving slowly at low revs with all that noise
And I must have a hardtop with the car if its an elise...are there anny problems with hardtops? or leaks? wich type of hardtop is best for a mk2 elise?
GTRene

[RobM77]

re: S2 111S:

kevin ritson said:

Pre-'04 cars (likely at the price you've set) don't have as much kit anyway

I know that the hardtop came in as standard in '04, but do you know what else did? thanks.

[kevin ritson]

Less insulation, manual windows, no central locking - it's all down to how much comfort you want - personally I would have been happy either way.

[enjybenjy]

you could aim for a <04 111S with air-con (very useful for demisting at this time of year) and a hardtop. The comfort thing is all relative. My Mrs Enjybenjy drives an S1, more miles than me and doesn't complain. I could do that too, although the seats in the S2 are MUCH more comfy for longer journeys. It's all about what you get used to, and what you can live with.

[hbaumhardt]

2003 Elise S2 111S Standard & Optional Features
Interior Trim Leather or Alcantara
Floor Covering Full Carpet Set
Soft-top Black
Hard-top Cost Option (Standard 2004)
Sound Insulation Standard
Central Door Locking Cost Option (Standard 2004)
Electric Windows Cost Option (Standard 2004)
Sun Visors Cost Option (Standard 2004)
Interior Stowage Net Cost Option (Standard 2004)
Lightweight Aluminium Passenger Footrest Standard
Leather trimmed Sport Steering Wheel Standard
Four-Speaker Audio Kit Standard
Alarm and Immobiliser Standard
Auxiliary Front Driving Lamps Standard
Metallic Paint Cost Option
Air Conditioning Cost Option

E&OE

[RobM77]

thanks very helpful indeed.