Elise is The Best Car

[val]

Please bear in mind that english is not my native language, but i hope that my points will be clear. So, ignore spelling and grammar.

Below i will be talking about sportscars (or sportcars, not sure which one is correct term). Some points will not be applicible to GT cars. If you are interested in a car that gets you from home to work and back, then just skip this.

I will be talking about car, as an instrument for driving. And what the hell?! This is what cars are made for! This is why i drive my Liz everyday everywhere. For DRIVING PLEASURE.

Recently i realised that my views on cars are hugely different to almost everyone elses's. I find stupid what they say and they find stupid what i say.

dump or not?


I thought about it for a while, trying to understand where i am going wrong, but really only reassured myself even further. So, i decided to post this short write-up and open myself to critic. Please, do not try to critic separate sentences, because i might have made some mistakes or havent though out my examples thourolly enough. Instead try to understand my general idea.

I will make a collection of general points from which i hope my general philosophy on what a perfect car should be like will become clear.



1. Function over nonscense.

What does a man need?

More specifically: do you need auto roof, leather interior, traction control, power windows, climate control, abs, traction control etc etc etc...
There are some things which come down to the drivers skill, like, for example, abs or traction control. Or things which fall under personal preference, like power windows.

But then there are things which you dont need. For instance, leather dashboard, which doesnt serve any function at all except from "pleasing your eyes" or substituting "cheap" plastics. But then it adds more weight and (personally) i am not very comfortable with leather as a material. A living thing was skinned to get you that dashboard, this is not very nice. A good piece of plastics will save you weight, feel nice to the touch and you wont see any horrordreams about cows being skined.

Then things like electric seats. I always woundered what thier purpose was. Manual seats are just SO much faster and not that much physically intensive. Or climate control. Which function i also never grasped.

So, when another one from the crowd says "wow! that car doesnt have leather interior!!! OMG!!!" i always want to say something like "yeah, your toilet ring (or whatever you call that thing u putt ur arse on) doesnt have leather on it either". You dont use leather on your toilet ring, you dont get elevator to get to the next floor. So why should it be any different in a car?

think about it...


2. Elegance in design solutions.

I have more buttons then you!!!

I noticed that lots of manufactures put an OVERWHELMING number of functions in thier cars. For example, porsche cayenne (and presumably 911 and boxster, since thier interfaces are pretty similar) has 100+ buttons on it. Why? Im my Liz i have what? 5 buttons? and 3 knobs? Add stereo buttons as well. And i dont feel any less comfortable. In fact i feel much more comfortable. But the most astonishing is that when i want to change some settings on my stereo i dont have to press 10 buttons. BMWs have like 6 shifting speeds and 1000000s modes for suspention, throttle etc etc etc. Why? And so on.

So, the idea behind this paragraph is that its much more conviniet and not much less functioning (much less frustrating as well) to have 3 knobs instead of 20 buttons. Is M6 faster to 60 or 100 then Elise? No. How much does it take M6 to get to 60? 3mins 4.5secs. 4.5 for accelerating. 3mins for pressing all the "power" buttons and switching all traction controls of and setting shifting speeds. GOD FORBID IF YOU DIDNT PROGRAM ALL THE OTHER 10000 SETTINGS ON THE M-BUTTON!!!!!!!

design perfection


3. All for driving pleasure.

Loser: Hey punk, how much horsies do you have there?
Me: 200.
Loser: ha! Ive got 400!!! Im FAAAST!!!
Me: yeah, riiiiiiight... Emm... Whats that speck in my rear view mirror?

Almost everyone is obsessed with horse power rating. People forget that one of, if not THE prime technical specification of a car is WEIGHT. I am amased by how many car magazines dont even quote it in thier reviews. Weight is what determines how fast your car is and how well it handles. So, what i am missing is why put a 500hp engine in a car instead of making it 300kgs lighter? Sure if you gonna race on the nuerburgring, then you need a lot of horsies, but how often do you race at the 'ring? The truth is: 800+kg and 200-hp is better then 1600-kg and 400+hp. Its faster/as fast at sane speeds, it handles better, its more economical, its much more compact etc... Heavy cars are not fun.

Another point here is how much hp do you ACTUALLY NEED? Lots of people complain the Elise doesnt have enough power. This might be true if you COMPETE and you are an EXPERIENCED RACER. For me Elise is a tool for disecting Moscow city and nearby roads. Roaming around and having a blast. As i did more and more driver training and track days i began to realise that 200hp is PLENTY for my needs. Sure, 500hp Ferrari is going to hand me my arse... But is he having as much fun as i do?

fun... yeah...


4. Why is Elise the best car in the world. Ever.

Because it combines 1,2 and 3 in a very simple, harmonic yet very technically advanced design.

I can drive my car everyday everwhere.
I have a blast driving it.
I love how it looks, smells, feels to the touch and sounds.
I like general principle behind it.




So, it is emotionally pleasant to me, it is pleasing to all my scenses and most importaint it fulfills its role full 100%.

So, what do you think? :nanner:

>> Edited by val on Sunday 1st January 20:27

[shangani]

I don't really NEED more power. Want it for the track though.

[val]

For competition you ALWAYS want more power

Edited to post the whole writeup, rather then just a link.

[shot2bits]

???????????????

[hbaumhardt]

val said:

For competition you ALWAYS want more power

Err, not trying to be rude but simply understand your dialogue … are you discussing the Elise in context of road driving, track driving or competitive racing ?

[shangani]

Probably a response to my jibe about wanting more power. I shouldn't really have said that I want it for the track. I want it because inside I am still an 8 year old! Once I have 130 bhp more than you, I am going to give serious effort to trying to overtake you. Well er... at least I will try.

[DanH]

val said:

So, what do you think? :nanner:

That you haven't driven very many sports cars given your ridiculous dismissal of them?

[shangani]

Porscheman infiltrates the Lotus clique.... Porscheman stirs the pot...... But before vengeance can be wrought, Porscheman climbs back into his GT3 RS and leaves us for dust....

As an ex eliseman though, you can appreciate why they do still put a smile on ya face.

>> Edited by shangani on Monday 2nd January 19:29

[val]

well, actually i have driven quite a few sportscars... and 911 was a major disappointment.

[val]

this write up is in the context of street driving and/or non-competitive track driving.

[D_Mike]

Well, I clicked on this forum by mistake but it was worth it to read your post! I agree totally!

[gooby]

Val, you are preaching to the converted, that doesnt stop me openly agreeing with you.

The reason I dont like porkers is simple they are horifyingly boring. When something looks that dull, I cant be bothered. They are also a rip off. Porsche say they have the highest profit margin in the automotive sector. That tells me you are paying for a name. Frankly, if I am paying for a name, it will be on the front of somethin far more interesting.

[heebeegeetee]

gooby said:

Val, you are preaching to the converted, that doesnt stop me openly agreeing with you. The reason I dont like porkers is simple they are horifyingly boring. When something looks that dull, I cant be bothered. They are also a rip off. Porsche say they have the highest profit margin in the automotive sector. That tells me you are paying for a name. Frankly, if I am paying for a name, it will be on the front of somethin far more interesting.

Horrifyingly boring? How can a marque with one of the most prestigious histories be boring? Or a car built in a completely different way to everything else, with an engine in different place, etc etc. An aircooled flat six has got to be more interesting than a 4 cylinder any day?

And if Lotus had exercised the business acumen of Porsche they wouldn't be in foriegn hands, and would also be able to make a wider range of vehicles, instead of a limited range based (roughly) on one model. Which is hardly interesting.

You have to pay for quality.

[trimbo]

A work colleague recently let me drive his 997 Carrera S. The route was my usual commute, 12 miles across London at 6 am. Utterly brilliant car, did everything faultlessly, beautifully built and clearly very very fast.

Where it fell down for me, and I'm aware that this is totally subjective, is in the fun and excitement stakes. I missed the exhilaration that the Exige provides just by looking at it, far more than that I missed the feeling of connectedness (if that's a word), the sensitivity of the steering and the feel of the road. The Exige makes an otherwise dull commute entertaining, the Porsche makes it fast, undramatic and efficient. But that's the subjectivity, what I'd call character many others would call compromise.

Anyway, in summary, the Exige is better

[gooby]

heebeegeetee said:

[ Horrifyingly boring? How can a marque with one of the most prestigious histories be boring? Or a car built in a completely different way to everything else, with an engine in different place, etc etc. An aircooled flat six has got to be more interesting than a 4 cylinder any day? And if Lotus had exercised the business acumen of Porsche they wouldn't be in foriegn hands, and would also be able to make a wider range of vehicles, instead of a limited range based (roughly) on one model. Which is hardly interesting. You have to pay for quality.

They dont use flat air cooled sixes anymore and the only thing that holds the 911 on the road is the onboard computer, not driver skill.

The engine in a different place? It is in the worst place. We have seen what they can do with the GT, put the engine in the right place and add some performance and then top it off with an incredibly dull style - oh well.

You have hit the nail on the head - business acumen. You are buying a marketed image, carefully crafted to appeal to thier market segment. Why do you think they all look the same. There is a supercar garage up the road. They had the GT thing next to a boxster. You could barley tell the difference. Boring and dull and even worse - repetitive and un-imaginative styling.

All that over charging goes into marketing. What have porkers won recently? The argument does also hold for lotus. But Lotus were defining F1 and porkers were not even on the finishing rostrum.

If you were talking about a mid 80's bare chested, turbo charged beast, I would raise more than an eyebrow. As it is porkers are probably some of the most dull "sports cars" on the road

I agree, you have to pay for quality but with a profit margin like thiers it has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with the name and image. My choice runs a little deeper and if all the imagination you have means the best choice for you is a porker then you are seriously in need of some inspiration. Just think what you could have purchased.

Whenever I get into this arguement the standard porker owners responce is reliability. If that is the case, go buy a skyline. They are reliable and fast(er). To have the choice of your sports car down to reliability then I am afraid you go with your porker. The aim of a sorts car is to inflame you passion and put a huge grin ear to ear. I must make people swoon when they see it. If you want reliability, go buy a volvo T5, again just as fast.

I am in no way saying the Elise is the ultimate sports car but whenever I am in the car, I am having fun, I can forgive it anything (and do) and the other day I parked behind a bright yellow, brand new Ferrari 430. The kids were not looking at the fezza, the were stopping and looking and pointing and commenting (nice car mister!) at my Elise.

Porkers dont stand a chance.

[DanH]

gooby said:

heebeegeetee said: [ Horrifyingly boring? How can a marque with one of the most prestigious histories be boring? Or a car built in a completely different way to everything else, with an engine in different place, etc etc. An aircooled flat six has got to be more interesting than a 4 cylinder any day? And if Lotus had exercised the business acumen of Porsche they wouldn't be in foriegn hands, and would also be able to make a wider range of vehicles, instead of a limited range based (roughly) on one model. Which is hardly interesting. You have to pay for quality. They dont use flat air cooled sixes anymore and the only thing that holds the 911 on the road is the onboard computer, not driver skill. The engine in a different place? It is in the worst place. We have seen what they can do with the GT, put the engine in the right place and add some performance and then top it off with an incredibly dull style - oh well. You have hit the nail on the head - business acumen. You are buying a marketed image, carefully crafted to appeal to thier market segment. Why do you think they all look the same. There is a supercar garage up the road. They had the GT thing next to a boxster. You could barley tell the difference. Boring and dull and even worse - repetitive and un-imaginative styling. All that over charging goes into marketing. What have porkers won recently? The argument does also hold for lotus. But Lotus were defining F1 and porkers were not even on the finishing rostrum. If you were talking about a mid 80's bare chested, turbo charged beast, I would raise more than an eyebrow. As it is porkers are probably some of the most dull "sports cars" on the road I agree, you have to pay for quality but with a profit margin like thiers it has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with the name and image. My choice runs a little deeper and if all the imagination you have means the best choice for you is a porker then you are seriously in need of some inspiration. Just think what you could have purchased. Whenever I get into this arguement the standard porker owners responce is reliability. If that is the case, go buy a skyline. They are reliable and fast(er). To have the choice of your sports car down to reliability then I am afraid you go with your porker. The aim of a sorts car is to inflame you passion and put a huge grin ear to ear. I must make people swoon when they see it. If you want reliability, go buy a volvo T5, again just as fast. I am in no way saying the Elise is the ultimate sports car but whenever I am in the car, I am having fun, I can forgive it anything (and do) and the other day I parked behind a bright yellow, brand new Ferrari 430. The kids were not looking at the fezza, the were stopping and looking and pointing and commenting (nice car mister!) at my Elise. Porkers dont stand a chance.

Complete piffle, but you are entitled to your opinion! However it suggests you haven't driven many 911s and know nothing about the huge amount of racing that goes on in them.

p.s. wheres can I find my onboard computer?

[gooby]

the thing that controls the traction, diff and suspension. It also controls the throttle. Basically what you are there to do but given that it is an unstable config, you need the computers to take control to keep it on the road.

You can say piffle but you hve no intelligent arguement against what I have said. Porsche - the power of money and image over good sence.

[DanH]

gooby said:

the thing that controls the traction, diff and suspension. It also controls the throttle. Basically what you are there to do but given that it is an unstable config, you need the computers to take control to keep it on the road. You can say piffle but you hve no intelligent arguement against what I have said. Porsche - the power of money and image over good sence.

I do, but I really can't be bothered arguing with you. You are such hard work and clearly know precious little about 911s. This is aptly illustrated by the fact you think they all have onboard computers controlling traction, diff & suspension and that they are required to keep the car on the road. The 911 is a nicer car on the limit than an Elise with or without TCS.

[shangani]

I reckon we can sort of let Dan off major abuse. He is an ex elise owner and he does drive a proper hardcore no frills driver orientated porsche. I have driven the carrera 4S 996 and the Standard 2wd S (and the 993 turbo as well as the 930 turo which was frankly dangerous). Neither really appealed that much as true drivers cars. Very rapid point to point cars with great, safe handling. The sort of cars where extreme speeds are possible. Trouble is that they don't feel like they are going that fast. That was my problem with my M3 - too boring unless at really high speed. As I lived in South Africa at the time, huge speeds were possible - I would take it on 1000mile trips. I would consider a porsche for that sort of driving if I was still there.

The one porsche I drove that I absolutely loved, was the Mk1 GT3 - I loved he look, plenty of poke and real driver involvement. Totally different to the C4S. The only porsche I would consider now is the GT3 - I probably do not have the ability to exploit the GT3 RS over the standard GT£ and would find the latter a more useable proposition. For now, I love the simplicity of the Liz, but the upgrades list is growing by the day.

[heebeegeetee]

gooby said:

They dont use flat air cooled sixes anymore and the only thing that holds the 911 on the road is the onboard computer, not driver skill. The engine in a different place? It is in the worst place. We have seen what they can do with the GT, put the engine in the right place and add some performance and then top it off with an incredibly dull style - oh well. You have hit the nail on the head - business acumen. You are buying a marketed image, carefully crafted to appeal to thier market segment. Why do you think they all look the same. There is a supercar garage up the road. They had the GT thing next to a boxster. You could barley tell the difference. Boring and dull and even worse - repetitive and un-imaginative styling. All that over charging goes into marketing. What have porkers won recently? The argument does also hold for lotus. But Lotus were defining F1 and porkers were not even on the finishing rostrum. If you were talking about a mid 80's bare chested, turbo charged beast, I would raise more than an eyebrow. As it is porkers are probably some of the most dull "sports cars" on the road I agree, you have to pay for quality but with a profit margin like thiers it has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with the name and image. My choice runs a little deeper and if all the imagination you have means the best choice for you is a porker then you are seriously in need of some inspiration. Just think what you could have purchased. Whenever I get into this arguement the standard porker owners responce is reliability. If that is the case, go buy a skyline. They are reliable and fast(er). To have the choice of your sports car down to reliability then I am afraid you go with your porker. The aim of a sorts car is to inflame you passion and put a huge grin ear to ear. I must make people swoon when they see it. If you want reliability, go buy a volvo T5, again just as fast. I am in no way saying the Elise is the ultimate sports car but whenever I am in the car, I am having fun, I can forgive it anything (and do) and the other day I parked behind a bright yellow, brand new Ferrari 430. The kids were not looking at the fezza, the were stopping and looking and pointing and commenting (nice car mister!) at my Elise. Porkers dont stand a chance.

Well we do have different opinions, don't we?

There are literally thousands of porkers out there with air cooled engines. Are there more water cooled than air cooled yet? Don't know. Either way, I cannot see how anyone can say a four pot is more interesting than a flat six, however it's cooled.

As for your other comments re them not being drivers cars. Go to the 'ring at any weekend of the year, or any public session at anytime. Which car will you see more of? The 911. There may well be hordes of them. There is only one reason for that, and that is because its the best car for the purpose. Don't make the mistake of thinking its because they're a german car, enthusiasts aren't that stupid. The 'Ring is the epicentre of the petrol head world, and the one car that features predominately, sometimes more than all the other makes put together is the 911. For good reason.

What have Porkers won recently? Porkers are winning races all over the world every single weekend. Porsche themselves have won the accolade of being the most profitable car company in the world, something to be immensly proud of IMO. Presumably you prefer the British way, ie build tat, even good handling tat, that falls apart around the owner til the company goes bust. Real smart, that.
Now that Porsche have returned to a strong and healthy company I'll be very surprisede if they don't return to motorsport in the future.

What else could I buy other than a Porker? Lots of cars that aren't as good. Look at the history of them. Go back to 1964 when the E type was its main rival. What has happened to all the 911's rivals ever since? They've all gone. E-Types, AM V8s, every Ferrari made during the time, every Lamnbo, every single one, all gone. How many of the 911's rivals manufacturers are still independant? Off the top of my head, none of them I don't think, though I'm sure I'll be corrected.

Of course the engine is in the wrong place, but thats another interest factor.

Yes, there are too many of them out there, and small children won't point at them. Thats ok for me though, I'm not a poseur and never have been, I've got a life to get on with.

I've never owned a Lotus or a Porker, I just have friends who have, though the time is approaching when I need to pull my finger out and buy something decent. I shall never buy a car that has a K series engine so that limits the choice of Lotus. Plus, I like driving, as opposed to posing and forever fixing the thing. I've owned 4 pot cars all my life, I don't need another. I like doing long journies. It'll have to be a Porker of some sort. Its not just the reliability, or the speed, its the whole package. A Skyline doesn't appeal for a second.