Brake Question

[lasermatt]

I have decided to change the brake pads on my S2 as they are all pretty low and I'm planning a trackday in the next couple of months. This got me to thinking about changing the discs at the same time. They are original and the car is a 2002 and covered 17K. They don't look bad but I don't want to change the pads then have to change the discs in 3-6 months time (And have to do new pads aswell). Anyway just wondered what the consensus was on life expectancy on discs and whether there was a recomended time frame for replacement. Also have probably decided on EBC turbo groove discs with Pagid RS42's after deciding the ally belled discs weren't worth the extra considering my use of the car. Does anyone have any experience of this combo on an S2 - Good/bad?

Cheers

Matt

[shangani]

Unless the discs are worn or warped (vibrating under braking), you might as well just replace the pads. If the discs are dodgy, then by all means replace them. Nothing wrong with the combo you have mentioned, but of course depends on how much you want to spend. Bear in mind that if you do a few trackdays, you could be replacing the pads in 6 months anyway. Main thing with the pads is to get them bedded properly. If you are near Plans motorsport, they are excellent and will bed the pads etc. Certainly the RS42's are excellent pads for fast road and the odd trackday. Good "bite" even when cold, unlike the ceramic pads that need heat.

[lasermatt]

That is really my problem - I don't know if they are worn - On my previous cars I have estimated this by 'feel' of the lip at the top edge of the disc. The discs on mine have only a very small lip (As you would expect with just 17K of use and no track work to date). The thing is I have a bit of spare cash at the moment and would rather err on the side of caution but don't want to fork out best part of £250 on discs unnecessarily. I intend to do them myself as i'm a fairly competent DIY mechanic and have done a number of pads/discs on all knds of cars so that should save the labour cost.

I know there is no hard and fast rule on longevity of these kind of parts as it is so dependent on use but just wondered what other peoples experience has been.

Also of how much benefit are braided hoses and how easy to get at unions etc to fit?

Thanks for the response.

[shangani]

If you are going to track the car, I recommend the braided hoses. Definitely improved brake feel. As for the discs - if the car has been braking straight and true with no juddering or vibration, it may be that they are OK. Seems a waste of money "just in case", but I appreciate your postion of not wanting to replace both down the line - though the pads will naturally wear faster than the discs.

[bignath]

I have mintex pads and braided hoses. They took some time to bed in but now are very positive. You get more feel on the limit and only need to back off a little to modulate the breaking.

Leave some filth on the wheels though. I guess I am also breaking harder and later now I feel I have better breaks.

[shangani]

Mintex are fine on the roads, but do not last as long on the track. Have a really good look around, I have heard of folks getting the pagid RS42's for as little as £100 for the entire set.

[david@mediacopy]

My S2, also an 02 car has been heavy on discs and pads.

The car had new front disks / pads at the second service and I think it may also have gone through a set of rear pads at the first service. I did query the breaks under warranty (they judder when hot) but the Lotus engineer said "they all do that sir. . . " after I'd trekked back and forth to the dealer a few times.

The rear discs look awful but it went through the MOT ok last time, but I expect to have to fit a pair at the next service ( 36k ). I had a peep at the second hand cars at the local dealer and all the rear discs looked rough.

[bogie]

just replace the pads for now with Pagids...re the discs, I had greenstuff with RS42s - the RS42s will chew through them pretty quick...in the long term ally bells with Hi-spec discs will pay for themselves, or if you can afford it then ally bells with AP5000 rotors (what I run now) - these are nearly everlasting

[lasermatt]

Cheers for all the responses - Just been out to the garage and had a feel of the discs - Rears don't feel too bad but fronts have a reasonable lip on them. As I said above don't want to fork out £200+ for pads then have to get both discs and pads in a few months. Really tempted with Ally belled discs now - As I really want to start to track the car this year and these seem to be the ultimate brakes for the elise. Guess its down to whether I want to spend the money now or in 6 months time. Also got A service, cambelt, tax, MOT and insurance between now and end of April!!

[gooby]

I have the Pagid rs42's. Very good a bit too early to tell how well they wear. The benifits are a little hard to appreciate in a R but one thin is for sure, they do squeak!

[GTRene]

gooby said:

I have the Pagid rs42's. Very good a bit too early to tell how well they wear. The benifits are a little hard to appreciate in a R but one thin is for sure, they do squeak!

They squeak? did they put some copergreese behind the pads?? that sometimes helps, some modern pads even has some plastic? layer on the back of the pads, don't know about padgids though...did you place them yourself or a garage?

[gooby]

GTRene said:

gooby said: I have the Pagid rs42's. Very good a bit too early to tell how well they wear. The benifits are a little hard to appreciate in a R but one thin is for sure, they do squeak! They squeak? did they put some copergreese behind the pads?? that sometimes helps, some modern pads even has some plastic? layer on the back of the pads, don't know about padgids though...did you place them yourself or a garage?

Yep there is copper grease on them. It isnt a pad vibrating in the unit problem, it is the pad material on the disk squeaking. It really doesnt bother me. If it is bad there are 2 options, drive faster or dab the brakes

Rene, is there a very good reason you are not driving?

[bogie]

if they squeak then you just need to bed them in properly - give them a good hammering basically !

do a search on here for Nick Adams of Lotus' instructions - basically a few stops from 30mph then 70mph then hold your foot on the pedal for a while to warm em through - that sorts out the squeaking for good...well unless you leave it for a few weeks then you need to go out and give them some welly again

[GTRene]

gooby said:

[quote=GTRene] Rene, is there a very good reason you are not driving?

I had some drive's today gooby, even was on TV-news with the car, it was a nice article, the car looks great on tv!
After all those time consuming matters I decided to fill el monstro up, and then drive to the place I was born, no not my mom but the city
But it was around 16u and the road was very very crowded so I decided to go home and take a longer drive wednesday...and a friend I know sms'd me and say, please take it easy, you better come with us this summer to the Nürnbergring...I answered, maybe I do, I will at least 2 times this year, also with some Lotus boys from GB
I know thats not realy a excuse is it

[bogie]

LOL

if you are doing the mileage then ally bells are the way to go - the Hi-Spec disc can be had for about £55 each on subsequent purchases....so you need to get through a few sets to make it worthwhile (from a cost perspective) ...the AP5000 rotors (from Geary) are even more expensive - 3x as much in fact....think when I had them fitted it was £1200 inc for rotors and RS42s...but these give even better feel and last 3x as long again.........

Basically if you intend on keeping the car a few years and tracking it then ally bells are the way to go - dont bother with the greenstuff......I ran greenstuff for a year and got through a set of discs nearly every set of pads !

[hbaumhardt]

The Pagid RS42 blue are a damn fine road/track pad and will last for around 20 mins continious track time before overheating (glaze, hotspot whatever). If you want to hit the track for longer sessions then you need the black ceramic ones (Pagid RS14, 41 ... again whatever) but they dont work too well from cold and can be scary on early morning commutes.

[lasermatt]

Sorry back to this again - Pretty much made my mind up on the ally belled discs from Eliseparts with RS42's for my S2. Anyway in the meantime I've booked myself onto a Walshy day for 7th of feb and was wondering whether to do the brakes before or after. I've just whipped one of the rear wheels off and theres about 2-3mm left on the rear pads, fronts are about double that. Can anyone offer advice as to how hard the day is likely to be on brakes. Last thing I want is to be faced with the 3 hour drive home from essex with no rear brake pads or worse for them to wear out during the day. Also if I do them before is it likely to be o.k on the day with fairly unused discs/pads?

Cheers

Matt

[shangani]

I did 2 walshy days on my OEMs - both dry. When I took the pads off, they had about 60% left on the front, 40% on the back. The biggest wear will be tyres not brakes. You shouldnt use 3mm on the day, but get them changed after that. If you want to put my oems (with 60+% left) on the back for the Walshy day you can have them.

[lasermatt]

Shangani thanks for the offer - YHM.

Matt