Not a Lotus Newbie
Discussion
Yes conjecture and heresay is bad form, although there *should* be no issue reporting fact from a verifiable source e.g. a transcript of a conversation (if all parties acknowledge is being noted or recorded) or copies of correspondence which is not under NDA or restrictivley marked P&C/eyes only etc.
los angeles said:
Guys, you need to view Pistonheads as a magazine, one that attracts advertiers and is therefore a commercial business that relies on goodwill and balance. We are privileged to use its electronic letters pages to communicate our enthusiasm, views, and irritations about all things automotive, but not to accuse and leave the defendent without a voice. Pistonheads is not a Blogger's column. Nor is it E-Bay car sales where buyers can register their thanks or displeasure at the service offered by a specific dealer, and where that dealer can respond with an answer to complaints for all to read.
Best you tackle the dealer that has let you down head on, or e-mail each other to discuss it in detail.
LA
Whereas I understand your point of view, this is a discussion forum and our experiences with dealers (good and bad) are an integral part of the ownership. It is by sharing these experiences that we learn how to deal with the dealers better and the dealers have the oppertunity to improve themself.
Slagging off a dealer for the sake of it is out of order and the dealers do have a voice. The ones I know are members.
In my opinion you are welcome to name and shame. I would feel awful if someone went to wet n wild to get graphics on thier car and they made the same cock ups. BUT remember there are 2 sides to a story so keep it honest and if possible constructive.
I was only after some sympathy.
I am well aware of the rules that's why I have not named and shamed, I am well aware that the dealer in question reads Pistonheads. If it stops them doing what they have done to me, to someone else then thats great.
I'm a big boy now I'll get over it, I am just very, very angry, I had a whole weekend of hooning planned and was looking forward to it.
Those that know me will know I've not had a great time of it lately and this was the gift to myself and my wife to put some cheer back on our faces, it meant more to us than just getting another car.
I have no sympathy at all for the dealer in question.
Terry
I am well aware of the rules that's why I have not named and shamed, I am well aware that the dealer in question reads Pistonheads. If it stops them doing what they have done to me, to someone else then thats great.
I'm a big boy now I'll get over it, I am just very, very angry, I had a whole weekend of hooning planned and was looking forward to it.
Those that know me will know I've not had a great time of it lately and this was the gift to myself and my wife to put some cheer back on our faces, it meant more to us than just getting another car.
I have no sympathy at all for the dealer in question.
Terry
You got simpathy ! Anyone that keeps you from consuming Lotus pleasure should obviously be 
I was pissed areound endlessly by TVR type people, now all of my sports car aqusitions are private and upgrades are specialist as any premium is worthless to me. Yes there are still cock-ups, by they are mine to make or avoid.
I was pissed areound endlessly by TVR type people, now all of my sports car aqusitions are private and upgrades are specialist as any premium is worthless to me. Yes there are still cock-ups, by they are mine to make or avoid.
los angeles said:
Whereas I understand your point of view, this is a discussion forum and ...
Had Ted wanted to establish an automotive investigation unit he'd have employed trained and experienced investigative journalists accountable to him and to accuracy to seek out and confront the truth. Open discussion and heated argument won't guarantee that. And there is such a thing as a lynch mob ...
Coincidentally, the view that Pistonheads should have sharper teeth is exactly my argument against the shallow entertainment of BBC's "Top Gear." It purports to be for motorists but it's really just celebrities offering jokes on wheels. On Pistonheads we get to communicate and debate with each other, and we can talk in confidence by e-mail if desired. As a participant of "Top Gear" you don't even get a bloody seat unless you are a celebrity.
Um... did we just agree ...?
Humm... I agree with, or rather understand and wouldn't look to argue with, all sides of the "can" and "can't do" viewpoints here - although would confess to not actually considering things deeply enough before posting the 'Why not name & shame' comment
It's a damned shame that Terry has been let down - that is just bad business... if there were any uncontrollable circumstance that had led the 'Dealer' to have no choice or option in the matter, then this would have surely been explained and probably accepted by Terry as being one of those things and not something that had made the fella really bloody mad!?!?
If I do a great job, I would like to think people may talk about it... if I do crap business, I know people are gonna make a noise and let others know only too well! That is something that I actually can control ultimately - don't do crap business in the first place!!
Anyway, by way of an alternative story - when I was looking to buy an Elise a few weeks ago, I did some general research and even asked on PH for people's personal experience of a particular South West based Lotus Dealership. A few comments were made, good and indifferent and someone even suggested an alternative South West Lotus Dealer, to which I replied "I heard they were Muppets though?" after reading several comments on a different site which clearly hinted towards that
A couple days later, I received a personal email from the Head Salesperson at the "Muppet" dealership saying 'Sorry people think that, please give me a call and we'll see what we can do for you'. Rather than thinking "Oh hell, that's all gone rather wrong" I replied commenting on how great I thought their reaction was and would love to drop in for a chat... a bit of attention, service and a period of getting to know each other later, I had spent several thousand pounds and ordered a new Sports Racer!
Excellent salesmanship? Maybe. "I'll have the cheeky bugger!" Maybe also, but most definitely a great way to respond to adverse comment and a little tale to show that some open opinion and the opportunity to address things can indeed work out with everyone happy …and still out of court!
It's a damned shame that Terry has been let down - that is just bad business... if there were any uncontrollable circumstance that had led the 'Dealer' to have no choice or option in the matter, then this would have surely been explained and probably accepted by Terry as being one of those things and not something that had made the fella really bloody mad!?!?
If I do a great job, I would like to think people may talk about it... if I do crap business, I know people are gonna make a noise and let others know only too well! That is something that I actually can control ultimately - don't do crap business in the first place!!
Anyway, by way of an alternative story - when I was looking to buy an Elise a few weeks ago, I did some general research and even asked on PH for people's personal experience of a particular South West based Lotus Dealership. A few comments were made, good and indifferent and someone even suggested an alternative South West Lotus Dealer, to which I replied "I heard they were Muppets though?" after reading several comments on a different site which clearly hinted towards that
A couple days later, I received a personal email from the Head Salesperson at the "Muppet" dealership saying 'Sorry people think that, please give me a call and we'll see what we can do for you'. Rather than thinking "Oh hell, that's all gone rather wrong" I replied commenting on how great I thought their reaction was and would love to drop in for a chat... a bit of attention, service and a period of getting to know each other later, I had spent several thousand pounds and ordered a new Sports Racer!
Excellent salesmanship? Maybe. "I'll have the cheeky bugger!" Maybe also, but most definitely a great way to respond to adverse comment and a little tale to show that some open opinion and the opportunity to address things can indeed work out with everyone happy …and still out of court!
The facts are:
The offer on my part exchange, changed from the initial offer, which I accepted with good grace. I then negotiated the deal and got the finance authorised all over a two week period. I went in and signed all the doc's and agreed the deal.
They phoned Thursday am to say they could not get a good underwrite on the car and were £500 short on the offer, so I agreed to meet them half way.
I went in on Thursday to collect the car, changed my insurance over, signed the finance doc's, had all the paperwork in my hand, and was about to have the car handed over to me when they decided they were a £1000 short on the deal.
To top it all I got my part exchange back, which had obviously been used by someone whilst they had it.
No petrol in it. When I had left it with half a tank. (They have offered to pay for this!)
Unbelievable.
The offer on my part exchange, changed from the initial offer, which I accepted with good grace. I then negotiated the deal and got the finance authorised all over a two week period. I went in and signed all the doc's and agreed the deal.
They phoned Thursday am to say they could not get a good underwrite on the car and were £500 short on the offer, so I agreed to meet them half way.
I went in on Thursday to collect the car, changed my insurance over, signed the finance doc's, had all the paperwork in my hand, and was about to have the car handed over to me when they decided they were a £1000 short on the deal.
To top it all I got my part exchange back, which had obviously been used by someone whilst they had it.
No petrol in it. When I had left it with half a tank. (They have offered to pay for this!)
Unbelievable.
Is this all in writing? Even if not. looks like there's the makings of a contract there if you can prove it: Offer and Acceptance, Consideration (ie: you pay the money and trade in, they give you the car), Intention to create a legal contract and Capacity (you're over 18, they can sell you the car!)
Can't give a verdict for you (and I'm not a contract lawyer) but if you reckon they've welched on a deal, I'd check this out...
Can't give a verdict for you (and I'm not a contract lawyer) but if you reckon they've welched on a deal, I'd check this out...
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff