Elise S2 Standard Vs. 111S
Discussion
Just got a query about the power difference between a standard S2 and a the 111S version.
I used to own a 2001 Standard S2 Sports Tourer. I say standard - it actually had a sports exhaust and induction kit already installed when I bought it, but I'm guessing that didn't make a huge difference to the power output.
I sold it a while back (for a Z4, don't ask), but recently saw the error of my ways and have now gone back to an Elise. This time I bought a yellow 2004 S2 111S. Again this has got a Lotus sports exhaust and a Hurricane induction kit.
I was expecting to notice a slight improvement in acceleration in the 111S model, but it feels no quicker than my old one. The stats claim 0-60 times of 5.6s and 5.1s for the two models, and BHP of 120 and 156, so I was a little disappointed not to notice any improvement at all.
I'm thinking that either A) The difference is too negligible for somebody like me to notice or appreciate, or B) perhaps there is something wrong with my car? Unfortunately, I haven't driven any other 111Ss so I've got nothing to compare mine to. Can anybody else comment?
I've checked out getting the car's power tested on a rolling road, but this costs £90 so I'm still thinking about it. If there were any problems with the car, they should be covered under warranty, but i haven't got long! Any help would be appreciated!
I used to own a 2001 Standard S2 Sports Tourer. I say standard - it actually had a sports exhaust and induction kit already installed when I bought it, but I'm guessing that didn't make a huge difference to the power output.
I sold it a while back (for a Z4, don't ask), but recently saw the error of my ways and have now gone back to an Elise. This time I bought a yellow 2004 S2 111S. Again this has got a Lotus sports exhaust and a Hurricane induction kit.
I was expecting to notice a slight improvement in acceleration in the 111S model, but it feels no quicker than my old one. The stats claim 0-60 times of 5.6s and 5.1s for the two models, and BHP of 120 and 156, so I was a little disappointed not to notice any improvement at all.
I'm thinking that either A) The difference is too negligible for somebody like me to notice or appreciate, or B) perhaps there is something wrong with my car? Unfortunately, I haven't driven any other 111Ss so I've got nothing to compare mine to. Can anybody else comment?
I've checked out getting the car's power tested on a rolling road, but this costs £90 so I'm still thinking about it. If there were any problems with the car, they should be covered under warranty, but i haven't got long! Any help would be appreciated!
its not *that* noticeable on the road to be honest...you should find the 111S revs easier from 5.5K-7.2K revs and that over 80mph its quite a bit quicker...whereas a std car struggles to reach say 120mph the 111S should pull it more easily.
Bear in mind a good std engine with exhaust/filter will be making 130-35bhp...a std S2111S is 156bhp and maybe 160-65bhp max with exhaust/filter so theres only really 25-30bhp difference...which is not that huge to be honest
Bear in mind a good std engine with exhaust/filter will be making 130-35bhp...a std S2111S is 156bhp and maybe 160-65bhp max with exhaust/filter so theres only really 25-30bhp difference...which is not that huge to be honest
Ok thanks. I think the 2004 model is a bit heavier as well(?), so that probably doesn't help. If anything, I'm thinking my new car might even be a little slower than my old one, it's hard to tell. I'm inclined to just get the power tested - should be quite interesting whatever the outcome!
Having gone on a few BOLOC's drives with Just1 when he had his S2 sports tourer there was very little if anything in it on initial accelleration, but i noticed i could pull for longer in 2nd, and then that started to catch / loose depending on who was in front. There's also very little difference in a 111s and 111r until about 3rd gear when the R just keeps pulling away. So if you put all cars on a drag strip together then there's little in it to start but each model up will start to edge away slightly as you increase speed.
Thanks guys, that's all very interesting.
Phil-CH, I don't think the ambient temperature is playing any part in this, as I'm talking about my impressions of the cars after driving them both in various conditions. If anything, i've driven the 111S in colder weather then the Sports Tourer, so would expect it to be quicker...
Phil-CH, I don't think the ambient temperature is playing any part in this, as I'm talking about my impressions of the cars after driving them both in various conditions. If anything, i've driven the 111S in colder weather then the Sports Tourer, so would expect it to be quicker...
Remember that the 111s does not have the close ratio box like the standard S2. This makes it much better for motorways etc. However, in 2nd and 3rd, the shorter gearing of the standard partially makes up the lack of power. Above 5500 rpm though, the 111s is a lot quicker - I have experienced this difference on both road and track, where I can stay in the same gear quite a bit longer. Unless you are tracking the car, the 111s benefits in a lot of ways from the longer 4th and 5th especially. On the track, the close ratio box is quite a nice mod for the 111s.
I'm thinking about an s2 elise and was also wonder how much of a difference in performance there was between the standard car and the 111.
Does the 111 not have a shorter 1st and 2nd gear which should improve its 0-60 time even without the extra power?
What sort of mileage was on both your cars?
Colin
Does the 111 not have a shorter 1st and 2nd gear which should improve its 0-60 time even without the extra power?
What sort of mileage was on both your cars?
Colin
shangani said:
Remember that the 111s does not have the close ratio box like the standard S2. This makes it much better for motorways etc. However, in 2nd and 3rd, the shorter gearing of the standard partially makes up the lack of power. Above 5500 rpm though, the 111s is a lot quicker - I have experienced this difference on both road and track, where I can stay in the same gear quite a bit longer. Unless you are tracking the car, the 111s benefits in a lot of ways from the longer 4th and 5th especially. On the track, the close ratio box is quite a nice mod for the 111s.
This is the key. In gear accelleration in the standard car 'seems' faster but the top end grunt that the 160bhp 111S has will see it pull clear of the 120bhp 111.
I'm not sure exactly what the differences are in the gear ratios (i'm sure somebody can tell me!), but i think as shangani says, the 111S has longer gears overall. The 111S does rev higher than the standard model which also helps. I've only had the 111S for a few weeks, so I'm still getting used to it really. The mileage on both cars was/is around 18,000.
>> Edited by mr-lovebucket on Thursday 20th April 11:35
>> Edited by mr-lovebucket on Thursday 20th April 11:35
From 111 and normal Elise
S2 std CR box is mated with a final drive of 4.2.
S2 111s has a final drive of 3.94.
They share the same ratio's for third, fourth and fifth, and only the first two differ (2.92 and 1.75 for std and 3.25 and 1.89 for the 111s).
This (change of the ratio's of the first two gears combined with a change in the final drive) makes the effective gear ratio for the two in the first two quite similar (12.26 and 7.35 for std and 12.81 and 7.45 for 111s).
Effective the gearing for the S2 111s is shorter than the S2 standard for the first two gears, but longer for the last three gears.
S2 std CR box is mated with a final drive of 4.2.
S2 111s has a final drive of 3.94.
They share the same ratio's for third, fourth and fifth, and only the first two differ (2.92 and 1.75 for std and 3.25 and 1.89 for the 111s).
This (change of the ratio's of the first two gears combined with a change in the final drive) makes the effective gear ratio for the two in the first two quite similar (12.26 and 7.35 for std and 12.81 and 7.45 for 111s).
Effective the gearing for the S2 111s is shorter than the S2 standard for the first two gears, but longer for the last three gears.
Geo changed. Toe links on the S2 are fine as is.
Cost £1295 Installed for the nitrons - which are way better than the LSS. I could not have lived with the LSS on my car which is a daily driver.
OZ's + 048's £900. That was a steal though. However, I do not use the 48's on the road.
All in all I am glad I do not have a 135R. I would have changed from LSS and would have gone through 3 sets of 048's with the milage I have done. £650 a throw, go figure. So far my road tyres look mint and cost me £350 the set. And they work in the wet.
Hans's car is a track toy only and for him a 135R might have made better sense.
Cost £1295 Installed for the nitrons - which are way better than the LSS. I could not have lived with the LSS on my car which is a daily driver.
OZ's + 048's £900. That was a steal though. However, I do not use the 48's on the road.
All in all I am glad I do not have a 135R. I would have changed from LSS and would have gone through 3 sets of 048's with the milage I have done. £650 a throw, go figure. So far my road tyres look mint and cost me £350 the set. And they work in the wet.
Hans's car is a track toy only and for him a 135R might have made better sense.
Done;
Nitrons & Geo at Sinclaire £1350 (SELOC Special)
OZ and A048LTS from B&C £1600 (inc SELOC 10%)
Second hand harness & bar £ 100 (Yes I'm tight)
Still to go;
2.5x ARB and adjustable drop links (could bugger the setup)
C/R Gearbox and final drive
Alcantara on the Stack display
Fake 160R manufactuers plate
Nitrons & Geo at Sinclaire £1350 (SELOC Special)
OZ and A048LTS from B&C £1600 (inc SELOC 10%)
Second hand harness & bar £ 100 (Yes I'm tight)
Still to go;
2.5x ARB and adjustable drop links (could bugger the setup)
C/R Gearbox and final drive
Alcantara on the Stack display
Fake 160R manufactuers plate
S Works said:
shangani - you have mail mate.
So do you.
I suspect Hans would still be quick if he had bought some total shed running on 3 cylinders though. I really do want the alcantara - adds a touch of class to the instrument and steering shroud.
>> Edited by shangani on Thursday 20th April 19:05
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