Pax in an Exige S v My current Elise
Discussion
Popped into my local dealer on Saturday and had a short pax in the demo car which is still being run in (only had 240 miles on the clock so could not be revved hard). Even with a quick look over I was very impressed with the finish and during the run the go of the new car. Will be getting a proper test drive when the demo has a few more miles on the clock. But I could not help but think long and hard on the drive home (25 twisty miles) in really nice sunshine with the roof off how much i love my current Elise. She may be only a 135S racetech with LSS and a stage 2 exhaust system but she seemed to be just as lively at real world speeds (sub 100) and just as nimble as a car costing 20k more. I know its very easy to be seduced by a new car (the smell?) as good as the Exige S is but its going to have to be really fantastic to get me reaching for the cheque book. Anybody else find it hard to make up their minds like this and has anybody regetted so callede changing "up"? I should add I don't do trackdays (in cars) and use my Elise for a mix of commute and weekend / summer evening fun.
Jimbo
Jimbo
It may be the tyres e.g. for road use it turns out I prefer standard tyres on 175 fronts. Sticky A048s and 195 width fronts loose some of the delicacy in the fell and feedback.
Edit: PS respect for not getting suckered into the 0 to 60 and bhp thing.
>> Edited by hbaumhardt on Tuesday 25th April 16:25
Edit: PS respect for not getting suckered into the 0 to 60 and bhp thing.
>> Edited by hbaumhardt on Tuesday 25th April 16:25
Hi Jim,
If I had the money to throw at it i'd probably be looking at a newer elise.
The exige is a very, very sexy car indeed but all-in-all, pound for pound, my money would be going on a newer elise if you have the urge to change.
My elise smells like an old tent, but I love it - rightly said, it's easy to be seduced by a new car. Whatever you decide, you wont be disappointed and once you've bought it, you'll love it more than anybody elses' car on the road...
Hope this puts your mind at rest, it's just my opinion though.
Rob.
If I had the money to throw at it i'd probably be looking at a newer elise.
The exige is a very, very sexy car indeed but all-in-all, pound for pound, my money would be going on a newer elise if you have the urge to change.
My elise smells like an old tent, but I love it - rightly said, it's easy to be seduced by a new car. Whatever you decide, you wont be disappointed and once you've bought it, you'll love it more than anybody elses' car on the road...
Hope this puts your mind at rest, it's just my opinion though.
Rob.
One reason I wanted a ride/test in the new Exige S is the promise of an engine with good torque and low down thrust, I don't want an engine I have to work really hard to enjoy driving on the road. Guess thats why I like the feel of my 135, good linear torque and even delivery. Good call on the tyres Hans, your right 175 fronts for road work fine for me light turn in, fast steering, feel and feedback, yeah it needs fast hands when motoring but is the choice for road stuff. As for changing to a newer Elise I must say the Yota motor power delivery is too manic for me, some will prefer it, but I like a wave of torque (small thought it is in mine) drive rather then rev rev. I used to have a Honda Civic with this V-tech right Jekell and Hyde delivery really fun for a while but got rather irritating the longer I had it. The test drive in the Exige S will be intersting, its a real shame the SC cannot be fitted to the Yota Elise, one look under the engine cover of an S will show you why. I'm not yet convinced about what I will end up with, lots of aftermarket choices around I know but for the moment I want factory build quality and the residuals of any new car to hold up. Time will tell.
Cheers
Jimbo
Cheers
Jimbo
I've gone through this conundrum for the last year or so and I've settled on a Honda conversion.
I've driven:
- S1 with std engine, plus exhaust & hurricane
- S1 Sport 160, latterly with an uprated exhaust and ITG
- S2 111S with OZ wheels
- S2 Exige
- S2 Exige S
- S2 Exige 240 Cup
- S1 MSC Honda Converted car (220bhp)
- S2 MSC Honda Converted car (AlexArm's - 220bhp)
...and I've pax'd in several other cars including a 300bhp supercharged Honda'd S1 Exige around Brands Hatch with a semi-pro racing driver at the wheel (in fact the guy who set the lap record). So I think I'm reasonably qualified to comment and give a decent opinion.
What do I like? The build quality on the newer cars is ten-fold better than 6 years ago when mine was made, BUT they are more lardy now as a result. That's progress, all sportscars get heavier sadly. I also think the design of the cars is brilliant, all variants have their appeal, and none (apart from that rank Harrods S2, or the minging autumn gold ones) can be faulted AFAIC. I love them all for different reasons.
The interiors in the newer cars are lovely, as are all the new seats etc. Lovely design, really comfy but retain the Chapman ethos as far as practicable.
What don't I like?
S1 - you get used to the power too quickly.
S160 - well, nothing really... I love everything about it. The best Elise ever produced IMVHO.
S2 111S - didn't get on with the engine, not for me.
111R - can only comment from assumptions as I've not driven one, but the engine doesn't do it for me in the Exige, so no reason to assume it will in the R. The ride is excellent though I'm told, as in most S2's.
S2 Exige - I can't get on with the the Exige's ride in any form, too unresolved, needs work to stop the front end skipping around - undersprung and overdamped IMHO, BUT others find it very very good so I'm not going to argue there. Each to his own. The engine? Well I just can't get on with the non supercharged 'yota power delivery, the powerband is too small, some may say "you learn to live with it", well, I can't, don't want to and won't. Again, each to his/her own. The S and 240 Cup were very nice cars, but IMO, too expensive, and frankly, not quick enough. Having driven the cup again this weekend I didn't like the small lack of immediacy on the throttle while the SC kicks in... it's fractions of a second, but it's noticeable to me, and that's enough for me to say no thanks. BUT, both are very capable cars, and anyone buying one I'm sure will be delighted with it.
Above all with the Exige I would miss having the roof off (no matter how cool the coupe looks, and it does look WAY cool) and most of all, I just can't live with the price of the 111R, the Exige.
Sure the fit and finish is better, but a new specc'd S is now more than a (barely) used 240R... the latter is certainly the better option IMO, but I've never driven one.
All of you know I love the Honda conversion. Having driven both S1 and S2 this weekend in NA form I was nothing short of blown away. Nothing that I've ever driven comes close to the immediacy of the power, the relentlesness of the engine, and the addiction of revving it more and more and more. I want one so badly that I'm selling the best car I have ever owned - my beloved El Beast II. Will it be worth it? Yes, I'm convinced it will. Someone else will get a fantastic Sport 160 to love and enjoy as much as I have, while I will get my ultimate Lotus... until the new Esprit comes out perhaps
So what am I saying, in a very, very long 2p's worth? Well, the lesson is this. Try everything before you part with your hard-earned, or hard-borrowed. One car makes you go 'Wow' but if you know there are others there at a similar price with different options, you'd be mad not to check them out and see if instead of 'Wow' you get
for your ££'s.
Happy
all.
S Wks
>> Edited by S Works on Tuesday 25th April 16:52
>> Edited by S Works on Tuesday 25th April 17:49
I've driven:
- S1 with std engine, plus exhaust & hurricane
- S1 Sport 160, latterly with an uprated exhaust and ITG
- S2 111S with OZ wheels
- S2 Exige
- S2 Exige S
- S2 Exige 240 Cup
- S1 MSC Honda Converted car (220bhp)
- S2 MSC Honda Converted car (AlexArm's - 220bhp)
...and I've pax'd in several other cars including a 300bhp supercharged Honda'd S1 Exige around Brands Hatch with a semi-pro racing driver at the wheel (in fact the guy who set the lap record). So I think I'm reasonably qualified to comment and give a decent opinion.
What do I like? The build quality on the newer cars is ten-fold better than 6 years ago when mine was made, BUT they are more lardy now as a result. That's progress, all sportscars get heavier sadly. I also think the design of the cars is brilliant, all variants have their appeal, and none (apart from that rank Harrods S2, or the minging autumn gold ones) can be faulted AFAIC. I love them all for different reasons.
The interiors in the newer cars are lovely, as are all the new seats etc. Lovely design, really comfy but retain the Chapman ethos as far as practicable.
What don't I like?
S1 - you get used to the power too quickly.
S160 - well, nothing really... I love everything about it. The best Elise ever produced IMVHO.
S2 111S - didn't get on with the engine, not for me.
111R - can only comment from assumptions as I've not driven one, but the engine doesn't do it for me in the Exige, so no reason to assume it will in the R. The ride is excellent though I'm told, as in most S2's.
S2 Exige - I can't get on with the the Exige's ride in any form, too unresolved, needs work to stop the front end skipping around - undersprung and overdamped IMHO, BUT others find it very very good so I'm not going to argue there. Each to his own. The engine? Well I just can't get on with the non supercharged 'yota power delivery, the powerband is too small, some may say "you learn to live with it", well, I can't, don't want to and won't. Again, each to his/her own. The S and 240 Cup were very nice cars, but IMO, too expensive, and frankly, not quick enough. Having driven the cup again this weekend I didn't like the small lack of immediacy on the throttle while the SC kicks in... it's fractions of a second, but it's noticeable to me, and that's enough for me to say no thanks. BUT, both are very capable cars, and anyone buying one I'm sure will be delighted with it.
Above all with the Exige I would miss having the roof off (no matter how cool the coupe looks, and it does look WAY cool) and most of all, I just can't live with the price of the 111R, the Exige.
Sure the fit and finish is better, but a new specc'd S is now more than a (barely) used 240R... the latter is certainly the better option IMO, but I've never driven one.
All of you know I love the Honda conversion. Having driven both S1 and S2 this weekend in NA form I was nothing short of blown away. Nothing that I've ever driven comes close to the immediacy of the power, the relentlesness of the engine, and the addiction of revving it more and more and more. I want one so badly that I'm selling the best car I have ever owned - my beloved El Beast II. Will it be worth it? Yes, I'm convinced it will. Someone else will get a fantastic Sport 160 to love and enjoy as much as I have, while I will get my ultimate Lotus... until the new Esprit comes out perhaps
So what am I saying, in a very, very long 2p's worth? Well, the lesson is this. Try everything before you part with your hard-earned, or hard-borrowed. One car makes you go 'Wow' but if you know there are others there at a similar price with different options, you'd be mad not to check them out and see if instead of 'Wow' you get
for your ££'s. Happy
all. S Wks >> Edited by S Works on Tuesday 25th April 16:52
>> Edited by S Works on Tuesday 25th April 17:49
Well said that man. I am sure you will be very sad to see your 160 go! Have been considering changing mine to an S1 Exige but the lack of a soft top, plus heat in the summer and no boot has put me off.
Drove an S1 111S this week which seemed quicker than mine (boo) so it may be that I'll be considering a converted S1 myself soon!
Drove an S1 111S this week which seemed quicker than mine (boo) so it may be that I'll be considering a converted S1 myself soon!
S Works said:
Exige: overspring and underdamped
My impression of the LSS suspension is the opposite - UNDERsprung and OVERdamped. Particularly on the 135R LSS (even more so than the exige2) they put in relatively soft springs (LSS 211F/289R iirc) but fairly harsh damping settings. I run 325/400 and with the damping on soft is at least as comfortable as the S2 bilsteins. Hans runs 400/475 and the ride is te same as mine.
I do agree with you re the Honda conversion. Also, when you start getting bored of it, slap on a SC.
>> Edited by shangani on Tuesday 25th April 17:22
Not tried an Exige with the ohlins adjustable dampers and am more than happy with the set up on my Exige (especially since I had the geo done a few weeks ago) but think Nitrons are the best option you can get.
You can click them up and down to your hearts content and find the perfect set up for every situation. The ride from them is fantastic.
You can click them up and down to your hearts content and find the perfect set up for every situation. The ride from them is fantastic.
rfoster said:
Well said that man. I am sure you will be very sad to see your 160 go! Have been considering changing mine to an S1 Exige but the lack of a soft top, plus heat in the summer and no boot has put me off.
Drove an S1 111S this week which seemed quicker than mine (boo) so it may be that I'll be considering a converted S1 myself soon!
Come on over and have a try before one snaps it up. You know it makes sense
Mates rates deal and all that, I'll give you 10% off if you buy it this week.good wright up Tim you speak my language
only thing I'm a bit afraid of is you say in the yota SC you feel a bit "slow" reaction, and I like a direkt connection too! but how is the Honda SC doing? the same as the Exige S and 240(but then faster) or don't you feel its a flick slower in reaction...? Is that why you say go for the 220 honda on a track and 300 SC on the road? but anyway, I think the SC must be quikker then the new turbo's in reaction because its direkt connected and always online (when your above some revs) when does it come in? above 1500rpm? because ther is a slip in it aint it?
cheers
GTRene
you speak my language only thing I'm a bit afraid of is you say in the yota SC you feel a bit "slow" reaction, and I like a direkt connection too! but how is the Honda SC doing? the same as the Exige S and 240(but then faster) or don't you feel its a flick slower in reaction...? Is that why you say go for the 220 honda on a track and 300 SC on the road? but anyway, I think the SC must be quikker then the new turbo's in reaction because its direkt connected and always online (when your above some revs) when does it come in? above 1500rpm? because ther is a slip in it aint it? cheers
GTRene
You'll have to drive the Lotus SC'd cars Rene and tell me what you think. I've not driven a Honda SC car, perhaps I should sometime, but I know that the NA Honda is my favourite so far.
The one thing I didn't note above is how resolved the Honda Link-up kits supplied and fitted by MSC are. It looks, feels and drives like a production engine. The support from the kit supplier (scuffham) and the places that fit and maintain the cars (like MSC) is first class. They really care about their customers and go to great lengths to ensure that they are happy with what they've paid for.
Some Lotus main dealers could learn a vaulable lesson there!
The one thing I didn't note above is how resolved the Honda Link-up kits supplied and fitted by MSC are. It looks, feels and drives like a production engine. The support from the kit supplier (scuffham) and the places that fit and maintain the cars (like MSC) is first class. They really care about their customers and go to great lengths to ensure that they are happy with what they've paid for.
Some Lotus main dealers could learn a vaulable lesson there!
S Works said:
You'll have to drive the Lotus SC'd cars Rene and tell me what you think. I've not driven a Honda SC car, perhaps I should sometime, but I know that the NA Honda is my favourite so far.
The one thing I didn't note above is how resolved the Honda Link-up kits supplied and fitted by MSC are. It looks, feels and drives like a production engine. The support from the kit supplier (scuffham) and the places that fit and maintain the cars (like MSC) is first class. They really care about their customers and go to great lengths to ensure that they are happy with what they've paid for.
Some Lotus main dealers could learn a vaulable lesson there!
Sadly when we talk about SC yota engined cars there are not many around, but I will call a dealer not far from me I believe he's get one delivered soon or already have one, don't know if its sold already or also for a testride availeble, but I will ask him soon.
Also have a go in a honda conversion elise from Van Sten NL, they buy the kit in the UK engine and all...maybe from scuffham?
thanks mate for the kits sofar you make the world a better place to be on. Have to make a arangement soon there, once a month they have a little gattering at there workshop and then there will be a honda 220 conversion to try...
When I've done that I let you'll know what I think and what my short impressium is.
thanks
GTRene
S Works said:
Well said that man. I am sure you will be very sad to see your 160 go! Have been considering changing mine to an S1 Exige but the lack of a soft top, plus heat in the summer and no boot has put me off.
Drove an S1 111S this week which seemed quicker than mine (boo) so it may be that I'll be considering a converted S1 myself soon!
Come on over and have a try before one snaps it up. You know it makes sense
Cheers Tim, but I'm thinking Honda too!
rfoster said:
Well said that man. I am sure you will be very sad to see your 160 go! Have been considering changing mine to an S1 Exige but the lack of a soft top, plus heat in the summer and no boot has put me off.
Drove an S1 111S this week which seemed quicker than mine (boo) so it may be that I'll be considering a converted S1 myself soon!
Come on over and have a try before one snaps it up. You know it makes sense
Cheers Tim, but I'm thinking Honda too!
S Works said:
Well said that man. I am sure you will be very sad to see your 160 go! Have been considering changing mine to an S1 Exige but the lack of a soft top, plus heat in the summer and no boot has put me off.
Drove an S1 111S this week which seemed quicker than mine (boo) so it may be that I'll be considering a converted S1 myself soon!
Come on over and have a try before one snaps it up. You know it makes sense
Cheers Tim, but I'm thinking Honda too!
we could do a elise honda group buy
saves some money I'm in... Honda Elise conversion, who likes one;
1= S works
2= rfoster
3= GTRene
I have not driven a honda converted car, but I do suspect its a very good package, certainly the Brooke Kensington car I saw last year at Castle Combe was finished really well. It did look almost a factory finished car off the production line. But it isn't, it is a conversion and from a residuals point of view I would have to be looking at an older donor car such as my 51 plate S2 and then spending a fair whack of money on the conversion, the thick end of which I will never see back. (I know all cars lose money but I am fairly sure conversions are less "economical" over a few years ownership, than a factory car.
I will see how the test drive of the Exige S goes, my S2 is now 5 years old and I have owned her for 2.5, it's a really great car, I just wish Lotus did a similar modern version. I'm not looking for huge horsepower (even modest power outputs still make it a fantastic car to drive on the road) I do want good torque, good pick-up, a fair spread of power not all 6,000 rpm and above only stuff all combined with a slick gearbox and that lovely feel and grip package.
Jimbo
I will see how the test drive of the Exige S goes, my S2 is now 5 years old and I have owned her for 2.5, it's a really great car, I just wish Lotus did a similar modern version. I'm not looking for huge horsepower (even modest power outputs still make it a fantastic car to drive on the road) I do want good torque, good pick-up, a fair spread of power not all 6,000 rpm and above only stuff all combined with a slick gearbox and that lovely feel and grip package.
Jimbo
yep - a well specced Honda car is currently selling for more (market demand I guess) than a 2 year old £30K 111R etc ....I think you will lose more in depreciation on a new Exige S or 240 than a 4 year old car and spending £10K on a Honda ....the insurance is no worse now either with quite a few companies recognising the Honda conversion..
so to me, the upside of a new car is...errr...you have a new car..oh and you get aircon and leccy windows
downsides are it depreciates more and is slower..significantly...due to weight and less power..theres not really a good upgrade path at the moment for the yota...if you go NA Honda then just stick a JRSC on when you get bored and have 300bhp/800Kg ish
if you want a new car, with a factory 2 year warranty...and are not into modifying then go for a new one....if you already have a sorted car that youve spent a few quid on then a Honda can make sense ....you dont 'throw away' the £10K spent - most are selling and making back 70% of that on top of what the car would be worth ....on a new car you throw away the VAT and margin when you drive away + another 40% over 3 years ....£33K Exige will be £18-20K in 3 years ....your 4 year old car has pretty much bottomed out
as long as the demand for Honda converted cars outstrips supply and the market then I think they are good to hold at least 50% of the conversion price ...they have such a good rep
of course come resale - its easier to sell a factory car as a lot of potential buyers wont even know what a HOnda Elise is ....ups and downs really......
so to me, the upside of a new car is...errr...you have a new car..oh and you get aircon and leccy windows
downsides are it depreciates more and is slower..significantly...due to weight and less power..theres not really a good upgrade path at the moment for the yota...if you go NA Honda then just stick a JRSC on when you get bored and have 300bhp/800Kg ish
if you want a new car, with a factory 2 year warranty...and are not into modifying then go for a new one....if you already have a sorted car that youve spent a few quid on then a Honda can make sense ....you dont 'throw away' the £10K spent - most are selling and making back 70% of that on top of what the car would be worth ....on a new car you throw away the VAT and margin when you drive away + another 40% over 3 years ....£33K Exige will be £18-20K in 3 years ....your 4 year old car has pretty much bottomed out
as long as the demand for Honda converted cars outstrips supply and the market then I think they are good to hold at least 50% of the conversion price ...they have such a good rep
of course come resale - its easier to sell a factory car as a lot of potential buyers wont even know what a HOnda Elise is ....ups and downs really......
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