Tyre wear on track days?
Discussion
I'd like some advice please 
Having only had my Elise for a few months I haven't done a track day in it yet, so I have a question about tyre wear on track. I'm going to the 'Ring in August and will probably do about 6 or 7 laps. That wouldn't have troubled my Caterham at all, but I realise that the Elise is almost twice the weight, so what will tyre wear be like? Would I be stupid to embark on my trip (Reading to Belgium, Ring, then to Belgium to the coast for a few days) with part worn tyres, or should I get a new set beforehand? Bear in mind that because it's the Ring I won't be on the limit like I would at a shorter British track that I know well - I don't intend to push it.
thanks. oo - I have a standard S2 111S on the standard Bridgestone RE04s.
Having only had my Elise for a few months I haven't done a track day in it yet, so I have a question about tyre wear on track. I'm going to the 'Ring in August and will probably do about 6 or 7 laps. That wouldn't have troubled my Caterham at all, but I realise that the Elise is almost twice the weight, so what will tyre wear be like? Would I be stupid to embark on my trip (Reading to Belgium, Ring, then to Belgium to the coast for a few days) with part worn tyres, or should I get a new set beforehand? Bear in mind that because it's the Ring I won't be on the limit like I would at a shorter British track that I know well - I don't intend to push it.
thanks. oo - I have a standard S2 111S on the standard Bridgestone RE04s.
Hi Rob - we are overdue for that beer.
I did Cadwell Park on monday on the Bridgestones. It was good fun - more so than on my 048's. They worked really well. The issue is that when they get really hot, they melt. However, 70 odd laps of a 2.5 mile circuit, in sessions longer than the length of the Nurburgring, they were fine. I lost about 1mm of tread on the day, most of it late in the day when I was chasing (unsuccessfully) Hans who was on 048's. There was a bit of melt in places, but performance OK for the distance you wil cover at the ring. Also, there are areas where the tyres will cool a little - ie the straights. Don't stress, they will hold up. Don't drift on them though - they do melt in time, but bear up better than any other tyre for the S2. Toyos in particular melt when overheated and you can kill a set rapidly when than happens.
A random lap of Cadwell to see the similarities with parts of the ring.
From Hans' car following:
http://media.putfile.com/Cadwell-05-J
Same lap from inside the car:
http://media.putfile.com/Shanganicadw
Enjoy the ring - but mind the idiots. I will only be trying the ring on a closed day.
I did Cadwell Park on monday on the Bridgestones. It was good fun - more so than on my 048's. They worked really well. The issue is that when they get really hot, they melt. However, 70 odd laps of a 2.5 mile circuit, in sessions longer than the length of the Nurburgring, they were fine. I lost about 1mm of tread on the day, most of it late in the day when I was chasing (unsuccessfully) Hans who was on 048's. There was a bit of melt in places, but performance OK for the distance you wil cover at the ring. Also, there are areas where the tyres will cool a little - ie the straights. Don't stress, they will hold up. Don't drift on them though - they do melt in time, but bear up better than any other tyre for the S2. Toyos in particular melt when overheated and you can kill a set rapidly when than happens.
A random lap of Cadwell to see the similarities with parts of the ring.
From Hans' car following:
http://media.putfile.com/Cadwell-05-J
Same lap from inside the car:
http://media.putfile.com/Shanganicadw
Enjoy the ring - but mind the idiots. I will only be trying the ring on a closed day.
you could hear the engine revs a bit harder at that pointYes, Cadwell Park is an awesome circuit My front wheels do actually leave the ground in the Metro going over The Mountain - I use the opportunity to change into 3rd
Not much room for error at that place though! There's a wonderful mix of corners - from the flat out first bend, double apex right hander and long Park straight, to the ultra tight Monaco esque Hall bends. Superb!
If you're willing to travel that far I'd also reccomend Oulton Park - another one of my favourites.
Yes, beer long overdue Shangani Do you still have my number? In my new job I finish at 4:30pm so am pretty free most evenings.
My front wheels do actually leave the ground in the Metro going over The Mountain - I use the opportunity to change into 3rd Not much room for error at that place though! There's a wonderful mix of corners - from the flat out first bend, double apex right hander and long Park straight, to the ultra tight Monaco esque Hall bends. Superb!
If you're willing to travel that far I'd also reccomend Oulton Park - another one of my favourites.
Yes, beer long overdue Shangani
Do you still have my number? In my new job I finish at 4:30pm so am pretty free most evenings.As the man said, the Bridgestones can overheat - I got horrendous squirm at Brands last year and I'd count myself as a fairly smooth driver.
But having said that the tyres are bespoke for the car and whilst heavier than a Caterham, it's nowhere near as heavy as most other things out there. I got 18,000 miles out of my first set of rears, with 3 trackdays and a Stelvio trip and my fronts are still going strong at 24,000 miles. It all depends on your driving style and how long you stay out on the track.
But having said that the tyres are bespoke for the car and whilst heavier than a Caterham, it's nowhere near as heavy as most other things out there. I got 18,000 miles out of my first set of rears, with 3 trackdays and a Stelvio trip and my fronts are still going strong at 24,000 miles. It all depends on your driving style and how long you stay out on the track.
RobM77 said:
I'd like some advice please
Having only had my Elise for a few months I haven't done a track day in it yet, so I have a question about tyre wear on track. I'm going to the 'Ring in August and will probably do about 6 or 7 laps. That wouldn't have troubled my Caterham at all, but I realise that the Elise is almost twice the weight, so what will tyre wear be like? Would I be stupid to embark on my trip (Reading to Belgium, Ring, then to Belgium to the coast for a few days) with part worn tyres, or should I get a new set beforehand? Bear in mind that because it's the Ring I won't be on the limit like I would at a shorter British track that I know well - I don't intend to push it.
thanks. oo - I have a standard S2 111S on the standard Bridgestone RE04s.
Having only had my Elise for a few months I haven't done a track day in it yet, so I have a question about tyre wear on track. I'm going to the 'Ring in August and will probably do about 6 or 7 laps. That wouldn't have troubled my Caterham at all, but I realise that the Elise is almost twice the weight, so what will tyre wear be like? Would I be stupid to embark on my trip (Reading to Belgium, Ring, then to Belgium to the coast for a few days) with part worn tyres, or should I get a new set beforehand? Bear in mind that because it's the Ring I won't be on the limit like I would at a shorter British track that I know well - I don't intend to push it.
thanks. oo - I have a standard S2 111S on the standard Bridgestone RE04s.
"6 or 7 laps" of the 'ring won't trouble your tyres even slightly...
shangani said:
A random lap of Cadwell to see the similarities with parts of the ring.
From Hans' car following:
http://media.putfile.com/Cadwell-05-J
Same lap from inside the car:
http://media.putfile.com/Shanganicadw
Enjoy the ring - but mind the idiots. I will only be trying the ring on a closed day.
It's really good to watch them back to back.
Shows the difference in driving styles!
You work that wheel a lot more! Bet your arms are knackered after a few laps
That has virtually nothing to do with the driving style - I was on worn road tyres and had very little grip compared to Hans' car on semi-slicks. I was on the very limit of adhesion a lot of the time, whereas he was well within his comfort zone. When I use 048's my driving style looks very different - there is less to to to keep the car on the track - the tyres just stick. On road tyres, Hans would also look quite busy. I was having to apply small amounts of opposite lock through most of the corners as well as play constantly with the front tyre slip angles to keep the back stable. The slip angles on 048's (wider and stickier) are lower and there is less overall understeer.
Road tyres are more fun though. Trouble is they did melt quite badly.
I wonder if Gooby still thinks I am Captain slow / not trying hard enough.
Road tyres are more fun though. Trouble is they did melt quite badly.
I wonder if Gooby still thinks I am Captain slow / not trying hard enough.
Edited by shangani on Thursday 8th June 15:03
I did ten laps of the 'ring and drove there and back and my tyres barely suffered at all. You'll be fine. The 'ring isn't particularly abrasive to tyres. We did more damage doing standing starts at the traffic lights in Boulogne to impress (!!??) all the French girlies...
Burnt some fuel off at the 'ring though
Burnt some fuel off at the 'ring though
BTW - nice video Shangani The connection was too slow last night to download it, but it's managed now. Your lines are very good and everything flows nicely 
Well done on overtaking the Diahatsu Cuore! Interesting to compare your time with the Metro times actually - not that I was timing you, that would be illegal!
If you check out my profile, the pic of me in the Metro was taken at Cadwell by a friend of mine - just on the second apex of the Mountain chicane.
The connection was too slow last night to download it, but it's managed now. Your lines are very good and everything flows nicely Well done on overtaking the Diahatsu Cuore!
Interesting to compare your time with the Metro times actually - not that I was timing you, that would be illegal! If you check out my profile, the pic of me in the Metro was taken at Cadwell by a friend of mine - just on the second apex of the Mountain chicane.
Rob - That car was a full rally spec peugeot 106. Totally stripped out running a race engine of about 170 bhp. Car weighs 700kg. Actually he was really quick - at the time in the video he was idling along after he cooked his brakes. We have some footage of following him early in the day - he was seriously committing to the corners and we were learning the track. He was leaving monster black streaks on all the corners. Really epic stuff. He was doing about 1:53 whereas my best was 1:50 (Not that I had a clue at the time)My fastest laps were filmed with the camera looking out the side window unfortunately after the camera came loose on the mount.
You are I suspect a lot quicker than I am - it has taken me a long time to get the feel of the car and commit to the corners.
You are I suspect a lot quicker than I am - it has taken me a long time to get the feel of the car and commit to the corners.
You're driving looked absolutely fine to me. The difference with racing is that it is competitive. I bet if I put a stopwatch on you and told you your times each lap it would soon change! When I'm in the Metro I am ridiculously hard on myself - I think of the lap time I want to do and mentally I just won't leave myself alone till I've bettered it. The Metros are pretty slow - we do 1:50 as well. Spec is 800kg and 110bhp. Quite tricky to drive very fast though because of FWD, a very snappy chassis (well, mine is anyway as I find it faster that way) and the lack of power means that you must work hard to keep the momentum up. The tricky bit with FWD is that to go fast you have to keep the car in a little drift (as with any car) but on the verge of oversteer (to avoid the understeer when you come on the power), but to do that you need a setup which tends to bite pretty hard and fast. I had just a little too much rear brake bias at Donington the other week and had the tail out lap after lap until I adjusted to it. I'm told that it looked very spectacular though! Thing was, once I had adjusted to the more oversteerey setup I took a huge chunk off the lap record - that's just the way that FWD has to be. Sorry - I'm waffling now
shangani said:
That has virtually nothing to do with the driving style - I was on worn road tyres and had very little grip compared to Hans' car on semi-slicks. I was on the very limit of adhesion a lot of the time, whereas he was well within his comfort zone. When I use 048's my driving style looks very different - there is less to to to keep the car on the track - the tyres just stick. On road tyres, Hans would also look quite busy. I was having to apply small amounts of opposite lock through most of the corners as well as play constantly with the front tyre slip angles to keep the back stable. The slip angles on 048's (wider and stickier) are lower and there is less overall understeer.
Edited by shangani on Thursday 8th June 15:03
Sorry, been too busy to reply
Wasn't having a pop at your driving style mate, just interesting to see the difference in amounts of effort your both having to put in!
Looks like great fun and the vids are cool, like vid clips
And my excuse (#632) is that I cant afford to really push the 48s on track at £600 a set at the moment, so I drive conservativley and consistently, hence the smooth wheel movements. When I'm cashed up and not driving to a budget it looks a lot more like Andrew on road tyres, which could knock around 3 to 5 secs off a 2 minute circuit.
Edit that looks like driving at 95% will get 8/9 track days from a set wheras 99% could only get 4/5 which is an extra £1,200 a year in rubber.
Edit that looks like driving at 95% will get 8/9 track days from a set wheras 99% could only get 4/5 which is an extra £1,200 a year in rubber.
Edited by hbaumhardt on Friday 9th June 12:56
. That's about 90 miles! And I'm known for preserving tyres (I never changed the Avons on the Caterham!).
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