dbw throttle....fully opening?
Discussion
I got my exige s serviced last week for the first time.
On the print out there are times spent at various throttle settings. I cannot remember exactly the bands but the top two are something like 70%-85% and 85%-100%. The ecu records the time spent in these bands.
Whats strange is that the ecu says i have spent no time in these areas! i definately gave it full throttle on lots of occasions after 600 mile/1000km.
The dealer says it would show an error if something was wrong with the dbw system. However i am wondering if the throttle pedal itself was not commanding a full throttle(say for example because there is an obstruction below it) then the ecu would not know. The ecu would see the pedal 70% depressed and open the butterfly accordingly.
I am concerned about whether i am actually getting full throttle (the car feels fast but i do not know how it should feel) Is there a way to check this, i am wondering if the throttle stop at the pedal is adjusted correctly, if it stopped the pedal too soon the ecu would not show a fault, it does not know i wanted the pedal to go further.
Sorry for the waffle but any thoughts..........
On the print out there are times spent at various throttle settings. I cannot remember exactly the bands but the top two are something like 70%-85% and 85%-100%. The ecu records the time spent in these bands.
Whats strange is that the ecu says i have spent no time in these areas! i definately gave it full throttle on lots of occasions after 600 mile/1000km.
The dealer says it would show an error if something was wrong with the dbw system. However i am wondering if the throttle pedal itself was not commanding a full throttle(say for example because there is an obstruction below it) then the ecu would not know. The ecu would see the pedal 70% depressed and open the butterfly accordingly.
I am concerned about whether i am actually getting full throttle (the car feels fast but i do not know how it should feel) Is there a way to check this, i am wondering if the throttle stop at the pedal is adjusted correctly, if it stopped the pedal too soon the ecu would not show a fault, it does not know i wanted the pedal to go further.
Sorry for the waffle but any thoughts..........
I don't know about the Toyota cars but on a Rover engined one, you can (with the engine off!!) get an assistant to press the pedal fully and see if you can turn the lever on the throttle body any further. If you can, you're not getting full throttle, probably easier to adjust at the engine end of the cable.
cuzza said:
I don't know about the Toyota cars but on a Rover engined one, you can (with the engine off!!) get an assistant to press the pedal fully and see if you can turn the lever on the throttle body any further. If you can, you're not getting full throttle, probably easier to adjust at the engine end of the cable.
The Exige S and all the MY2006 cars and beyond are drive by wire, totally computer controlled.
jez_s said:
Can you hit 8500rpm, wouldn't that indicate whether your getting full throttle response.
Not really, press your throttle 70% and wait long enough and your motor will get to max revs.
The dealer said there is no real way to check, but that an error would show if the drive by wire system was working incorrectly. my point is if your carpet was under the throttle pedal and you could not press it all the way, the system would never know you wanted full throttle, it would appear to the ecu that you only "requested" for example 70% throttle, so thats what the system gives you.
The throttle pedal has a mechanical stop, i am wondering if tzhis is incorrectly adjusted and that i am never "requesting" full throttle.
Maybe to understand it a bit more here is a link dbw throttle from a M3 E46 I believe the same as I have in my car the Z3 M coupe with that E46 M3 engine
only not the SMG and the kickdown as in this excample...
Its 4 pages long but interesting what you can do? or not...
http://e46m3performance.com/tech/thro
GTRene
only not the SMG and the kickdown as in this excample... Its 4 pages long but interesting what you can do? or not...
http://e46m3performance.com/tech/thro
GTRene
Edited by GTRene on Monday 19th June 12:46
I used to have a Maserati 3200 and on that there was a recalibration procedure you could run through yourself periodically to ensure you were getting full range of throttle opening. It involved turning the ignition key to various positions in a sequence then pressing the accelator flat to the floor and taking your foot off for certain periods of time. I guess this allowed the ECU to confirm what inputs from the throttle pedal corresponded to fully open and fully closed.
Obviously I'm not suggesting the procedure for the Lotus would be the same, rather that a similar procedure probably exists for the Lotus ECU if anyone knew how to find it out. I think that would be the way to address your concerns rather than physically adjusting the throttle stop which is likely to just throw out the whole calibration.
Chris
Obviously I'm not suggesting the procedure for the Lotus would be the same, rather that a similar procedure probably exists for the Lotus ECU if anyone knew how to find it out. I think that would be the way to address your concerns rather than physically adjusting the throttle stop which is likely to just throw out the whole calibration.
Chris
chris_n said:
I used to have a Maserati 3200 and on that there was a recalibration procedure you could run through yourself periodically to ensure you were getting full range of throttle opening. It involved turning the ignition key to various positions in a sequence then pressing the accelator flat to the floor and taking your foot off for certain periods of time. I guess this allowed the ECU to confirm what inputs from the throttle pedal corresponded to fully open and fully closed.
Obviously I'm not suggesting the procedure for the Lotus would be the same, rather that a similar procedure probably exists for the Lotus ECU if anyone knew how to find it out. I think that would be the way to address your concerns rather than physically adjusting the throttle stop which is likely to just throw out the whole calibration.
Chris
Obviously I'm not suggesting the procedure for the Lotus would be the same, rather that a similar procedure probably exists for the Lotus ECU if anyone knew how to find it out. I think that would be the way to address your concerns rather than physically adjusting the throttle stop which is likely to just throw out the whole calibration.
Chris
Thats interesting chris. It makes a lot of sense, the system asks were zero is and then full and calibrates the movement of the butterfly accordingly. if there is such a procedure for the Dbw system i would like to try it.
Does anyone know how i can speak to someone at lotus technical dept?
I would really like to know i am getting full throttle, coz according to the ecu i am not even getting 70%!
On the print out, is it actual time in the band or % of time? If % then I'm not surprised you're not seeing anything - especially if the resolution of the readout is not to many decimal places. The problem with the 3200 throttle pot was that the sensitivity got too great if you didn't recalibrate - it certainly wasn't the case of not being able to get full beans out of it 
purpleperil said:
On the print out, is it actual time in the band or % of time? If % then I'm not surprised you're not seeing anything - especially if the resolution of the readout is not to many decimal places. The problem with the 3200 throttle pot was that the sensitivity got too great if you didn't recalibrate - it certainly wasn't the case of not being able to get full beans out of it
Its actual time measured to the second.....i drove back from lake Konstanz on the weekend on the b roads, i used full gas almost everytime i overtook...which was a lot!
Shangani.....i was expecting a comment like that! I am only surprised it took so long
I will have a word with lotus, my dealer said there is no way to check it, which i do not believe.
Hi - glad you took that in the spirit it was intended
I have had a lot of useful advice from Russell Carr on this sort of thing. Group lotus number +44(0)1953 608920. I will email the direct number for Russell if I can find it.
It does sound like there might be an issue, but as the DBW throttle is new, there may be little dealer experience of it. Perhaps it relates to the way it all works, perhaps there is a fault. It would be a shame to only be getting 70% throttle though if there is indeed a problem. I am sure it will ultimately turn out to be something really simple.
BTW, did they adjust your throttle pedal position when you bought the car? - eg to make it easier to heel/toe (which I found difficult in an exige S BTW)
Oh and I should add that there is a throttle reset on the non DBW throttles - I think it involves ignition on, but engine off, followed by 5 full depressions of the throttle pedal. I will check and report back.
I have had a lot of useful advice from Russell Carr on this sort of thing. Group lotus number +44(0)1953 608920. I will email the direct number for Russell if I can find it.
It does sound like there might be an issue, but as the DBW throttle is new, there may be little dealer experience of it. Perhaps it relates to the way it all works, perhaps there is a fault. It would be a shame to only be getting 70% throttle though if there is indeed a problem. I am sure it will ultimately turn out to be something really simple.
BTW, did they adjust your throttle pedal position when you bought the car? - eg to make it easier to heel/toe (which I found difficult in an exige S BTW)
Oh and I should add that there is a throttle reset on the non DBW throttles - I think it involves ignition on, but engine off, followed by 5 full depressions of the throttle pedal. I will check and report back.
Edited by shangani on Tuesday 20th June 10:37
shangani said:
Hi - glad you took that in the spirit it was intended
I have had a lot of useful advice from Russell Carr on this sort of thing. Group lotus number +44(0)1953 608920. I will email the direct number for Russell if I can find it.
It does sound like there might be an issue, but as the DBW throttle is new, there may be little dealer experience of it. Perhaps it relates to the way it all works, perhaps there is a fault. It would be a shame to only be getting 70% throttle though if there is indeed a problem. I am sure it will ultimately turn out to be something really simple.
BTW, did they adjust your throttle pedal position when you bought the car? - eg to make it easier to heel/toe (which I found difficult in an exige S BTW)
Oh and I should add that there is a throttle reset on the non DBW throttles - I think it involves ignition on, but engine off, followed by 5 full depressions of the throttle pedal. I will check and report back.
I have had a lot of useful advice from Russell Carr on this sort of thing. Group lotus number +44(0)1953 608920. I will email the direct number for Russell if I can find it.
It does sound like there might be an issue, but as the DBW throttle is new, there may be little dealer experience of it. Perhaps it relates to the way it all works, perhaps there is a fault. It would be a shame to only be getting 70% throttle though if there is indeed a problem. I am sure it will ultimately turn out to be something really simple.
BTW, did they adjust your throttle pedal position when you bought the car? - eg to make it easier to heel/toe (which I found difficult in an exige S BTW)
Oh and I should add that there is a throttle reset on the non DBW throttles - I think it involves ignition on, but engine off, followed by 5 full depressions of the throttle pedal. I will check and report back.
Edited by shangani on Tuesday 20th June 10:37
Thanks for your help....are you sure its Russell Carr? I thought Carr was the head of Design.
Going upstairs to check - getting old and memory might be failing.
Ooops, what a t*sser I am. Yes, my memory is failing, wrong Russell:
Russell Gibbons
+44(0)1953 608507
He is on the performance parts side, but seems to know just about everything there is to know. If not, he will get you in touch with someone who does.
Ooops, what a t*sser I am. Yes, my memory is failing, wrong Russell:
Russell Gibbons
+44(0)1953 608507
He is on the performance parts side, but seems to know just about everything there is to know. If not, he will get you in touch with someone who does.
Edited by shangani on Tuesday 20th June 11:03
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