Elise as trackday car ??
Discussion
Hi Folks, after some advice.
Me and a mate have been looking at buying a car for trackday use and maybe eventually enter a low level race series if all goes well. Caterham or Elise seem to be the main choice. Early Elise seem to start at around 7k ish but would no doubt need some engine/susp mods. Can these be done reasonably cheaply and what sort of power is acheivable? What problems is an early car likely to suffer? Does the chassis deteriate? Any advice greatly appreciated and any info on race series that the car could enter if we're brave enough!!
Thanks in advance....... dave.
Me and a mate have been looking at buying a car for trackday use and maybe eventually enter a low level race series if all goes well. Caterham or Elise seem to be the main choice. Early Elise seem to start at around 7k ish but would no doubt need some engine/susp mods. Can these be done reasonably cheaply and what sort of power is acheivable? What problems is an early car likely to suffer? Does the chassis deteriate? Any advice greatly appreciated and any info on race series that the car could enter if we're brave enough!!
Thanks in advance....... dave.
R TOY said:
Hi Folks, after some advice.
Me and a mate have been looking at buying a car for trackday use and maybe eventually enter a low level race series if all goes well. Caterham or Elise seem to be the main choice. Early Elise seem to start at around 7k ish but would no doubt need some engine/susp mods. Can these be done reasonably cheaply and what sort of power is acheivable? What problems is an early car likely to suffer? Does the chassis deteriate? Any advice greatly appreciated and any info on race series that the car could enter if we're brave enough!!
Thanks in advance....... dave.
Me and a mate have been looking at buying a car for trackday use and maybe eventually enter a low level race series if all goes well. Caterham or Elise seem to be the main choice. Early Elise seem to start at around 7k ish but would no doubt need some engine/susp mods. Can these be done reasonably cheaply and what sort of power is acheivable? What problems is an early car likely to suffer? Does the chassis deteriate? Any advice greatly appreciated and any info on race series that the car could enter if we're brave enough!!
Thanks in advance....... dave.
Engine: Either you go to www.dvapower.co.uk or you get a engine transplant (Honda / Audi options are the tried and tested) - Anthing up to £13,000 for 300+ BHP
Suspention: Defacto standard are Ohlins or Nitrons - At least £1000
Problems: www.elises.co.uk/problems/index.html plus of course a cheap car will have other issues... thats why its cheap!
Other things: You might want to factor in money for brakes, pads, tyres, harnesses, plumbed in extinguishers, exhaust & Manifold amoungst others - Could cost a lot
Fact is, econmically you are better spending more money on an already sorted car than trying to buy something cheap and develop it
Racing ? Best to start with a few less / non-cometitive track days:
www.lotus-on-track.com/
Edited by StuartB on Wednesday 21st June 20:16
To be honest, if you are looking for a pure trackday car, there are better alternatives. An ex-750MC Kitcar Championship car will pi55 all over an Elise on the track and will cost you half as much to buy, half as much to run, and a quarter as much to insure. Where the Elise scores is as a roadgoing sports car that is practical enough to use around town, whilst remaining fun on occasional track days and an absolute blast on the B-roads.
However...
Power can be increased to about 160-175 bhp on the K-series engine before it starts getting expensive. If you are looking for more than that, a Honda VTEC conversion might be the better option in the long run, but budget on £9.5K+ for the conversion.
Chassis is pretty good as standard, but you may want to upgrade the suspension. Options range from fitting cheap (and you get what you pay for...) adjustables coilovers like SPAX or standard S2 suspension (a big improvement over S1) for about £500, up to a set of Nitrons or Ohlins for considerably more than double that. If it is a cheap early S1 car, the standard suspension is likely to be well past its best, anyway, so you would be sensible to budget for new dampers, bushes, ball joints and geo set up...allow around £1500.
The Elise is very sensitive to tyres, though, so if you want the best from it, allow a few hundred quid for decent tyres if you are looking at one which has been run on a budget and fitted with non-Elise specific tyres. Do a search on the SELOC technical forum if you want advice on what are considered good and bad makes of tyre.
Main problems an early car is likely to suffer from are suspension related...worn ball joints, bushes, dampers, that sort of thing. Nothing that can't be fixed reasonably cheaply. Engine has a habit of blowing head gaskets, but other than that it is pretty simple mechanically. It scuffs up pretty easily, though, so at the cheaper end of the market you tend to find a lot of cosmetically scruffy cars (interior and exterior stonechips), which wont bother you if you are looking for a track car!
Chassis doesn't deteriorate much, apart from the well known problem with floor corrosion, which - if it occurred - should have been fixed under warranty in most cases. The rear subframe is steel (thought well protected by the undertrays) and the wishbones can corrode like any other car, but probably the Elise is probably better than most.
In terms of racing, there are surprisingly few categories that suit the Elise. Trouble with the Elise is that it is neither fish nor fowl...it is a big step up in performance from 'mainstream' sports cars of similar capacity (eg. MX5, MGF and MR2), so was not allowed to compete in 'production' sports car racing, but it is not light enough or powerful enough to have made a real mark up against more extreme, race-biased machinery. The 750MC Roadsports series would be your best bet, or perhaps hillclimbing and sprinting, but, again, if it is circuit racing you are after, there quicker and cheaper options than the Elise.
However...
Power can be increased to about 160-175 bhp on the K-series engine before it starts getting expensive. If you are looking for more than that, a Honda VTEC conversion might be the better option in the long run, but budget on £9.5K+ for the conversion.
Chassis is pretty good as standard, but you may want to upgrade the suspension. Options range from fitting cheap (and you get what you pay for...) adjustables coilovers like SPAX or standard S2 suspension (a big improvement over S1) for about £500, up to a set of Nitrons or Ohlins for considerably more than double that. If it is a cheap early S1 car, the standard suspension is likely to be well past its best, anyway, so you would be sensible to budget for new dampers, bushes, ball joints and geo set up...allow around £1500.
The Elise is very sensitive to tyres, though, so if you want the best from it, allow a few hundred quid for decent tyres if you are looking at one which has been run on a budget and fitted with non-Elise specific tyres. Do a search on the SELOC technical forum if you want advice on what are considered good and bad makes of tyre.
Main problems an early car is likely to suffer from are suspension related...worn ball joints, bushes, dampers, that sort of thing. Nothing that can't be fixed reasonably cheaply. Engine has a habit of blowing head gaskets, but other than that it is pretty simple mechanically. It scuffs up pretty easily, though, so at the cheaper end of the market you tend to find a lot of cosmetically scruffy cars (interior and exterior stonechips), which wont bother you if you are looking for a track car!
Chassis doesn't deteriorate much, apart from the well known problem with floor corrosion, which - if it occurred - should have been fixed under warranty in most cases. The rear subframe is steel (thought well protected by the undertrays) and the wishbones can corrode like any other car, but probably the Elise is probably better than most.
In terms of racing, there are surprisingly few categories that suit the Elise. Trouble with the Elise is that it is neither fish nor fowl...it is a big step up in performance from 'mainstream' sports cars of similar capacity (eg. MX5, MGF and MR2), so was not allowed to compete in 'production' sports car racing, but it is not light enough or powerful enough to have made a real mark up against more extreme, race-biased machinery. The 750MC Roadsports series would be your best bet, or perhaps hillclimbing and sprinting, but, again, if it is circuit racing you are after, there quicker and cheaper options than the Elise.
Another option might be BMW racing. It is organised by a a large group of people on SELOC:
http://forums.seloc.org/forumdisplay.
It is or was sponsered by Miltek or Khumo or something ? Apparently not too expensive, very friendly and it seems has a massive varience in driver skill
http://forums.seloc.org/forumdisplay.
It is or was sponsered by Miltek or Khumo or something ? Apparently not too expensive, very friendly and it seems has a massive varience in driver skill
Thanks guys, Good info. Lotus-on-track and 750mc look realy good. Not sure what a 750mc kitcar is tho? Would love to have an Elise (well 1/2 of one) but maybe a Caterham type would be more practical! My mate has to sell his 'cherished' MG roadster and then we should be looking for a car.
Regards Dave.
Regards Dave.
R TOY said:
Not sure what a 750mc kitcar is tho?
At risk of drifting off-topic:
The 750 Motor Club runs a championship for kit cars (actually, three...one for kit cars with car engines, one for kit cars with bike engines and one for Locost 'Sevens' based on the design in the Ron Champion 'Build yourself a sportscar for £250' book. See the 750 Club's main website for an overview of all the Racing Formulae it runs.
The Locosts are a bit crude and basic, but many of the cars competing in the main championships are very quick. In both, the dominant cars for many years have been derivatives of the Sylva marque, designed by Jeremy Philips. Jeremy has a tendency to design and develop cars, then get bored and sell the manufacturing rights to someone else. As a result, 'Sylva' designed cars are now supplied by a number of companies. The cars of choice for the 750 Club championship are the Sylva/Fisher Fury Spyder and the Sylva/Stuart Taylor Phoenix.
I own both a Sylva Phoenix and a Lotus Elise Sport 160, so I can say with some confidence that an Elise wouldn't see which way a Sylva went on a race circuit! The Sylva weighs around the 500kg mark (depending on engine), compared to 723kg for a standard S1 Elise, and the engines fitted to Sylvas tend to be more powerful - ranging from 'mere' Ford Crossflows like mine (which produces a paltry 155bhp or so in semi-race tune) up to Ford Zetecs and Hyabusa bike engines producing well over 200bhp. My car is worth, realistically, about £4,500 and costs me about £130 a year to insure fully comp. through a broker who specialises in kit cars. You would have a wide selection of quite high-spec examples within the budget range of a tatty, high mileage Elise.
Don't get me wrong...the Elise is a great little car and I usually choose it in preference to the Sylva for road use, but if your priority is trackdays and motorsport then the Lotus just doesn't make much sense in comparison.
Edited by Sam_68 on Thursday 22 June 20:06
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