Indecisive S2 111s owner...
Discussion
Afternoon everyone
I can imagine most are tired of this sort of question, but I currently own an ’04 S2 111s and am looking to improve the BHP and torque. I eventually want to occasionally track the car, but for the time being just road use. This is what I have come up with:
1. Port and Polish of cylinder head
2. Piper Cams (270) – am I correct in thinking that this would blank out the VVC mechanism, and would I completely lose the characteristic of the car if so? If I had this done, would anyone recommend/see the need for the 285’s?
3. Vernier pulleys
4. 4-2-1 manifold – is Janspeed a good bet, and what size bore would benefit me – 40mm?
5. De-cat pipe. I have read people think that this is detrimental as you lose back pressure on the VVC, can anyone say for certain that this is the case?
6. Emerald ECU
I have spoken to the guys that are normally recommended for k-series engine work, but I need some advice, (from your own personal experience would be excellent), on whether this would be beneficial to what I’m looking for and worth the cost, and whether I should do all or just some of the above.
(I currently have a sports exhaust and induction kit).
Thanks in advance for any recommendations and opinions.
(Apologies for the double-posting...it logged out first time!)
I can imagine most are tired of this sort of question, but I currently own an ’04 S2 111s and am looking to improve the BHP and torque. I eventually want to occasionally track the car, but for the time being just road use. This is what I have come up with:
1. Port and Polish of cylinder head
2. Piper Cams (270) – am I correct in thinking that this would blank out the VVC mechanism, and would I completely lose the characteristic of the car if so? If I had this done, would anyone recommend/see the need for the 285’s?
3. Vernier pulleys
4. 4-2-1 manifold – is Janspeed a good bet, and what size bore would benefit me – 40mm?
5. De-cat pipe. I have read people think that this is detrimental as you lose back pressure on the VVC, can anyone say for certain that this is the case?
6. Emerald ECU
I have spoken to the guys that are normally recommended for k-series engine work, but I need some advice, (from your own personal experience would be excellent), on whether this would be beneficial to what I’m looking for and worth the cost, and whether I should do all or just some of the above.
(I currently have a sports exhaust and induction kit).
Thanks in advance for any recommendations and opinions.
(Apologies for the double-posting...it logged out first time!)
Edited by richquy on Friday 30th June 13:35
My thinking was the same as yours - how to improve power. Personally, having gone the trackday route with my car, I would spend the money on driver training, trackdays and maybe suspension and tyres.
I started off doing trackdays at Bedford and was lapping around 3:37 on the GT circuit. I thought I needed more power, but ultimately got talked out of it. I now lap the same circuit around 40 seconds faster. Engine mods alone might have got me 3 or 4 seconds. For road use the VVC is plenty quick.
Here is a vid of me driving at Oulton Park (2 up - and we both weigh 90 odd kg) following an S2 sport 190 (no passenger) with 190 bhp and the same tyres and suspension. The driver has done a similar number of trackdays to me and is pretty handy in his car. He has 34 bhp more, less weight (lighter car + 1 up) - and the difference is still not as big as you might think - he pulls away on the straights. With all the mods you are describing you will still have less power than this sport 190 - maybe 175 -180 bhp max. Remeber also that my own power to weight ratio would be about 10% better without a passenger.
http://media.putfile.com/Oultonshanga
Just get on the track and enjoy it with the engine as is - it is faster than you think. The only bolt-ons I would consider is a 4:2:1 manifold and a decent induction kit + the obligatory sports exhaust. Save head work etc for if / when the head comes off any way - eg you have head gasket failure. Ie I wouldn't take of the head just to have it worked on.
I started off doing trackdays at Bedford and was lapping around 3:37 on the GT circuit. I thought I needed more power, but ultimately got talked out of it. I now lap the same circuit around 40 seconds faster. Engine mods alone might have got me 3 or 4 seconds. For road use the VVC is plenty quick.
Here is a vid of me driving at Oulton Park (2 up - and we both weigh 90 odd kg) following an S2 sport 190 (no passenger) with 190 bhp and the same tyres and suspension. The driver has done a similar number of trackdays to me and is pretty handy in his car. He has 34 bhp more, less weight (lighter car + 1 up) - and the difference is still not as big as you might think - he pulls away on the straights. With all the mods you are describing you will still have less power than this sport 190 - maybe 175 -180 bhp max. Remeber also that my own power to weight ratio would be about 10% better without a passenger.
http://media.putfile.com/Oultonshanga
Just get on the track and enjoy it with the engine as is - it is faster than you think. The only bolt-ons I would consider is a 4:2:1 manifold and a decent induction kit + the obligatory sports exhaust. Save head work etc for if / when the head comes off any way - eg you have head gasket failure. Ie I wouldn't take of the head just to have it worked on.
Edited by shangani on Friday 30th June 14:38
Hmm, for that kind of outlay and power gain, wouldn't you be better simply selling the car and buying a 111R ?
Realiable 190bhp without mods so more insurance friendly
Agree with comments made so far though. I left my 111S completely standard, it's plenty fast enough for my abilities at the moment. Best upgrade i would like next is a walshy day.
Realiable 190bhp without mods so more insurance friendly
Agree with comments made so far though. I left my 111S completely standard, it's plenty fast enough for my abilities at the moment. Best upgrade i would like next is a walshy day.
rfoster said:
Sorry, can't help myself but I would like to comment on how nice your car is (saw it at Brands, my wife commented on the number plate.)
Thanks Richard, strategically placed screw-head cap on the 'O' helps with my surname! Brands was my first meet, so hopefully attend lots more from now on.
Shangani - very sound advice. Head work before I necessarily need it had crossed my mind. Perhaps 4:2:1 + driving training is the way forward for now at least. Thanks.
sp60 - selling is not an option...I want to keep and start a collection of toys in the coming years, plus I like the colour scheme too much! I have driven 111r's though, was impressed at 6k rpm and above, but the over-servo'ed brakes took some getting used to. At the time I didn't see a big enough difference to consider moving to an R...but that is why I need some advice on mods - they too may not be worth the extra ££ in the long run. Thanks
Edited by richquy on Friday 30th June 15:59
Right on Andrew ! Following a Turbotechnics 215bhp S1 Elise in my lardy and wheezy 156 bhp S2 round Castle Combe - how much difference does the 60 bhp make ? Watch the video and see http://media.putfile.com/Castle-Combe
all that will gain you 0.5 seconds a lap.
fit 2 way nitrons and gain 3 seconds a lap.
fit a set of OZ and Ao48 and gain another 4 seconds a lap.
swap out the gear box to a CR standard S2 box many for sale due to honda upgrades.
and just buy a 4-2-1 and ITG induction kit for a bit of lower torque.
then only then think about head work if you need it.
fit 2 way nitrons and gain 3 seconds a lap.
fit a set of OZ and Ao48 and gain another 4 seconds a lap.
swap out the gear box to a CR standard S2 box many for sale due to honda upgrades.
and just buy a 4-2-1 and ITG induction kit for a bit of lower torque.
then only then think about head work if you need it.
sp60 said:
Hmm, for that kind of outlay and power gain, wouldn't you be better simply selling the car and buying a 111R ?
Realiable 190bhp without mods so more insurance friendly
Agree with comments made so far though. I left my 111S completely standard, it's plenty fast enough for my abilities at the moment. Best upgrade i would like next is a walshy day.
Realiable 190bhp without mods so more insurance friendly
Agree with comments made so far though. I left my 111S completely standard, it's plenty fast enough for my abilities at the moment. Best upgrade i would like next is a walshy day.
There is no real world difference on the track between a 111r and a 111s. A 111s pushing 180bhp (say a DVA K06a conversion) will leave a 189 bhp 111r for dust mainly due to improved torque and a significantly better power to weight ratio.
Personally I am finding that the only part of my car I should have modified at the outset was my driving - and that is still the case.
As per shangani, all the above BS about adding this and that to give yourself xyz seconds a lap is nonsense.
Learning to drive it better is the best upgrade. I've just bought a Honda'd S2 and at my current skill level it's only faster than my Sport 160 round a damp Brands Indy because of the time I make up on the straights with the extra power.
Sure the upgraded brakes fade less, and the R888's with stiff ARB and Nitrons will help in time (as I learn how to use the whole package to the fullest), but I have many hours of learning ahead of me before I start knocking out record lap times.
I'm not knocking the investment I've made, all I'm saying is that you can spend nothing on mods and just learn to drive better, and be way faster than you were before. The rewards are not exponentially linked to hardware upgrades!
Learning to drive it better is the best upgrade. I've just bought a Honda'd S2 and at my current skill level it's only faster than my Sport 160 round a damp Brands Indy because of the time I make up on the straights with the extra power.
Sure the upgraded brakes fade less, and the R888's with stiff ARB and Nitrons will help in time (as I learn how to use the whole package to the fullest), but I have many hours of learning ahead of me before I start knocking out record lap times.
I'm not knocking the investment I've made, all I'm saying is that you can spend nothing on mods and just learn to drive better, and be way faster than you were before. The rewards are not exponentially linked to hardware upgrades!
richquy said:
Afternoon everyone
I can imagine most are tired of this sort of question, but I currently own an ’04 S2 111s and am looking to improve the BHP and torque. I eventually want to occasionally track the car, but for the time being just road use. This is what I have come up with:
1. Port and Polish of cylinder head
2. Piper Cams (270) – am I correct in thinking that this would blank out the VVC mechanism, and would I completely lose the characteristic of the car if so? If I had this done, would anyone recommend/see the need for the 285’s?
3. Vernier pulleys
4. 4-2-1 manifold – is Janspeed a good bet, and what size bore would benefit me – 40mm?
5. De-cat pipe. I have read people think that this is detrimental as you lose back pressure on the VVC, can anyone say for certain that this is the case?
6. Emerald ECU
I have spoken to the guys that are normally recommended for k-series engine work, but I need some advice, (from your own personal experience would be excellent), on whether this would be beneficial to what I’m looking for and worth the cost, and whether I should do all or just some of the above.
(I currently have a sports exhaust and induction kit).
Thanks in advance for any recommendations and opinions.
(Apologies for the double-posting...it logged out first time!)
I can imagine most are tired of this sort of question, but I currently own an ’04 S2 111s and am looking to improve the BHP and torque. I eventually want to occasionally track the car, but for the time being just road use. This is what I have come up with:
1. Port and Polish of cylinder head
2. Piper Cams (270) – am I correct in thinking that this would blank out the VVC mechanism, and would I completely lose the characteristic of the car if so? If I had this done, would anyone recommend/see the need for the 285’s?
3. Vernier pulleys
4. 4-2-1 manifold – is Janspeed a good bet, and what size bore would benefit me – 40mm?
5. De-cat pipe. I have read people think that this is detrimental as you lose back pressure on the VVC, can anyone say for certain that this is the case?
6. Emerald ECU
I have spoken to the guys that are normally recommended for k-series engine work, but I need some advice, (from your own personal experience would be excellent), on whether this would be beneficial to what I’m looking for and worth the cost, and whether I should do all or just some of the above.
(I currently have a sports exhaust and induction kit).
Thanks in advance for any recommendations and opinions.
(Apologies for the double-posting...it logged out first time!)
Edited by richquy on Friday 30th June 13:35
on a value for money/performance scale i'd say a
ported head
optimal timing of your current vvc mechs
a good 421 manifold and sports exhaust with a sports CAT (i've seen loads of threads re the cat and general consensus is you loose power without a cat on a vvc, sports cat best bet)
Good induction kit
fitting of the close ratio box from the standard S2
you should get around 180+ with this, and good torque + the cr gearbox will transfer that power better to the road (more power at the rear driven wheels in 3rd and 4th so better high speed acceleration)
if yuo want more than 180 hp your looking at new pistons, cams etc gets expensive for another 10 to 15 hp
as for the performance increase i'd say you'l get a 0 - 100 time inside that of a 111r probably around 12.5 secs
Edited by peter450 on Friday 30th June 20:18
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