Is the Elise R much better than an S?

[phraze]

Hi all,
Thanks in advance to anyone who answers to this...
I am in the lucky position of being about to buy a new second car whose primary purpose is fun. Our research has led us to the Lotus Elise! (a second hand Boxster S is still on the list but...).
The question facing us is whether to go for the R or the S. The S is obviously a bit cheaper but we would take both the 'Touring' options on it adding about £4,000 to the price, add on traction control and metallic paint and you are getting pretty damn close to the price of the R...So the question is should we go for the R or stick with the optioned up S?

I am worried that the S lacks that little bit of power and the R will be noticeably faster and sound 'gruntier'...any advice or opinions appreciated.

For info we will use the car mostly for country runs at the weekend and track days...

Cheers, F.

[peter450]

You should drive them both, before you decide, there basically the same car up to about 6500 RPM, in the standard car it's time to change gears at this point

In the 111R your just comming up to the cam change point were you get a second surge of power as the fast cam engages all the way up to 8000 rpm

On the fast cam the 111r is considerably quicker than a standard car, but the fast cam is basically between 6800 - 8000 RPM, and if your not in this zone it's the same speed as a standard car, so if you like revving your cars then the 111r is for you, if not it may not be.

I would advise you to try both before shelling out 27/30k an make sure you haggle at the dealers you should be able to get at least one of the 2 upgrade packs thrown in for free

[999]

phraze said:

I am in the lucky position of being about to buy a new second car whose primary purpose is fun.

With that in mind, IMO it's gotta be the 'R' every time. The grin factor alone justifies the price difference.

[phraze]

cheers for getting back to me...
we will haggle hard, but want to be realistic! if they would throw the second touring pack in for free to the R I think we'd go for that... I like the sound of the extra power surge, use it if you like or shift up early i guess...

[999]

peter450 said:

the fast cam is basically between 6800 - 8000 RPM,

Agree with Peter in as much as you should try both cars, but nit-picking though it may be, the 2nd cam comes in at 6250rpm and continues to 8000+ depending which gear you have selected at the time.

[phraze]

does the engine (on either) sound...well you know...like a gurgling sports car? i loved the sound of the boxster s when i opened it up! do the elise's have the same 'sound' or is it all about the road handling and speed?

[111KAB]

phraze said:

does the engine (on either) sound...well you know...like a gurgling sports car? i loved the sound of the boxster s when i opened it up! do the elise's have the same 'sound' or is it all about the road handling and speed?

Whether an R or an S you will probably feel the need to swop the exhaust. Most peeps (as I) seem to have gone for the 2bular which I'm impressed with ...Larini seems to come a good second. Get yourself along to a local Lotus meet and have a listen. All part of the deal when you buy. I managed to get a decent discount + some free servicing + free FITTING of exhaust.
111KAB

[zasker]

You can also get the ECU re-flashed which lowers the point of the cam change over to around 5500rpm. I haven't tried a car fitted with this but having had 2 different 111r's you have got to take the engine to the limiter to enable you to stay on the second cam when you change up.

[21TonyK]

As already said you really must drive both. The S is a much lazier car in that it has more low down torque and in some respects is a better proposition for "fun" days out pootling from pub to pub etc. The R is only really appreciated when you start to really press hard. Keeping it on-cam (with stanard ECU) on the road is not particularly realistic and not best appreciated by passengers who want a "nice day out" rather than a "BANZAI" scream through the countryside.

As for the Boxster, S or not, a Lotus will give you a far purer "driving" experience. Although still a fine car (had an S for a bit) the Boxster is a gin palace by comparison. It's also easier to exploit the performance of the Boxster which for me made it far less rewarding to drive.

[whygee02]

Phraze - you will not believe the sound of the Elise engine in any of its configs. I've got an older 02 S2 and the engine noise is staggering. If thats 'your thing' go for a test drive you'll see what I mean. Under load the stereo is a waste of time, the engine noise will cause a nose bleed.

Roof down on a weekend in the country and the noise is superb. Quiet enough to have a conversation with the missus (just) but loud enough to remind you why the Elise is special.

Try it and see, would be my best advice, but you'll not be disappointed.

[RobM77]

21TonyK said:

As for the Boxster, S or not, a Lotus will give you a far purer "driving" experience. Although still a fine car (had an S for a bit) the Boxster is a gin palace by comparison. It's also easier to exploit the performance of the Boxster which for me made it far less rewarding to drive.

Definitely drive both cars, but I was of the same opinion after trying both. I just didn't need that extra comfort that the Boxster offered at the expense of driver involvement.

[Grinzzz]

Hmm tough choice....I think just to get the keyboard warriors up and at it I'm going to say the S.

not really, if you're serious about doing track days I'd go for the R. If not go for the S.

[luckyb]

R, every time, if you can afford it. For the money you get everything an S is, with the added bonus of the second cam. My R, with the super touring pack, 10 months old, 5K miles, at the beginning of summer was sub 30K from a main dealer, with full backup.

[Skyman]

To add to the debate, if pure driving pleasure is what you are looking for and you are not wanting a daily drive, what about an S1? I have had a 111R and Exige S (both fine cars), but my current 111S has certainly given me the biggest grin - it is however a third car, for high days and holidays only. Just a thought.

Edited by Skyman on Thursday 30th August 09:04

[kevin ritson]

First of all I wouldn't worry too much about traction control, there are loads of Elises out there without it and whilst a few do end up in hedges, provided you use what Mario Andretti called "the educated right foot" it's not essential. It's the sort of car that requires you to think about what you're doing and is all the more rewarding for it.

Now the adjustable T/C on the 2-Eleven...that's another thing

If I had to choose between a 'Yota S and an R, the R would win it. For the price of a lightly-specced S, you can get a nearly new R, which will probably have a sports exhaust and filter and possibly a remap too.

[RobM77]

kevin ritson said:

First of all I wouldn't worry too much about traction control, there are loads of Elises out there without it and whilst a few do end up in hedges, provided you use what Mario Andretti called "the educated right foot" it's not essential. It's the sort of car that requires you to think about what you're doing and is all the more rewarding for it.

Now the adjustable T/C on the 2-Eleven...that's another thing

If I had to choose between a 'Yota S and an R, the R would win it. For the price of a lightly-specced S, you can get a nearly new R, which will probably have a sports exhaust and filter and possibly a remap too.

I agree I'd hazard a guess that almost all Elises that end up in hedges due to loss of control didn't get there because of power oversteer.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 30th August 09:05

[Phil-CH]

phraze said:

I am worried that the S lacks that little bit of power and the R will be noticeably faster and sound 'gruntier'...any advice or opinions appreciated.

I think as for sound, they both sound about the same. Regardless which one you go for, getting a sports exhaust is a must.

As for power: You can get a supercharger for both (not a Lotus kit though). If you chose to get the S and find yourself wanting more power later on, a supercharger ups the power to over 230bhp and 195lb-ft of torque. And after that, you haven't invested much more money than if you had gone with an R. So even if you go for an 'S', you still have options at a later time.

[Boggy]

I'd buy the R every time as I've driven both and the S in my view is a little under powered for the track When I was a brand's hatch I got the opportunity to be taken out for a few lap's in an Elise S with a Lotus test driver, it seemed to run out of steam half way down the straight were an R would just be getting into it's stride Buy an R with Touring & Sport's pack, try & get either a demo or if the dealer offer's you a good enough deal a new car.

You can't compare a Boxter S to an Elise I'm afraid two totally different car's, Boxter S quickish, well built, top brand, good looking, but dull

Elise well it's a Lotus what else has to be said. Drive an R you'll forget all about a Boxter mark my word's(Well if your in the market for a proper sport's car anyway)

Boggy

[TTwiggy]

Can I (an 'S' owner) just through my tuppence into the mix? I wanted a simple 'pure' Elise, but I also wanted a new car, so for me it was the 'S' with no additional options, apart from metallic paint (solar yellow). This comes in at under 25k, which I think is great. I don't see a need for touring packs, especially if this is going to be your second 'fun' car (mine is my only car!). But as others have said, if you're looking to lay out 30k+, then the 'R' makes more sense...

[Jonblue]

I've been driving my R since last October, and while it is off the road, I've been driving an S with a lovely new exhaust.

My comments echo the above in that whatever you get, you won't be disappointed. Even having had the R, I could still live with S and be very happy.

The S definitely 'feels' more torquier and a lazier drive, but this could be just because the R is just so crazy on the 2nd cam. I have to say that if I find myself looking for a new one, I would have to go for the R again - but with that exhaust - bloody hell!