Eagle 2+2?

[cjm]

Anyone else read EVO this month, there is a bit about the eagle 2+2? They say it looks like modern lotus twist on a 308gt4, with a new chassis, a 3.2l, 300bhp toyota v6 and will cost less than £50k.

Really sounds like the type of car Ive been waiting for, something modern of the size, power and with practicallity of an old air cooled 911 rather than a big gt that the 911 has turned into.

What are everyones thoughts?

[Sam_68]

Apart from the corny name, main worry is the bit about it resembling the the only Ferrari that is so deeply unpopular that you can't give one away...

The track record for residuals on 2+2 Lotuses wouldn't encourage me to blow £50K on one, either.

Still, everyone who's seen it seems very positive about it, and I must admit that I actually prefer the Bertone 308 GT4 to the majority of Pininfarina Ferraris (bit too tarty for my tastes, though I know I'm in the minority), so it will be interesting to see what they've come up with.

[NathanE]

I think it will be awesome.

Any bets that it will be based on the Toyota 2006 3.5L 2GR engine?

"2GR-FSE
The 2GR-FSE engine used in the 2006 Lexus IS 350 incorporates Toyota's D4-S twin injection system. This system combines gasoline direct injection with traditional port injection. Using direct injection and port injection simultaneously facilitates more precise mixing of air and fuel under low and medium load conditions for greater efficiency, while high load conditions dictate the use of direct injection alone for maximum power. The 2GR-FSE engine is rated at 315 hp (232 kW) at 6400 rpm and 377 N¡¤m (277 ft¡¤lbf) at 4800 rpm. The 2GR-FSE has also been slated for possible use in the upcoming 2008 Toyota Supra (which is speculated to be released October 2007) but tuned to the output of 350 hp (261 kW) at 7000 rpm and 290 ft¡¤lbf (393 N¡¤m) at 5000 rpm.

The 2GR-FSE was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2006 and 2007.

Applications£º

2006 Toyota Crown Athlete (Japan)
2006 Lexus GS 350 (Japan)
2006 Lexus GS 450h
2006 Lexus IS 350 (Japan and United States)
2007 Lexus GS 350 (United States)"

Edited by NathanE on Thursday 6th September 12:52

[bogie]

I heard its not even going to be a + 2 launch - just a bigger 2 seater with storage behind the seats......hey if it turns out to be like the M250 - bigger Elise style car, with 300bhp V6, storage behind seats + boot etc for £45K-50K I think it would be great

[cjm]

Yeah Eagle does sounds a bit rubbish but I think that is just the project name rather than the final name for the car.
Sadly I don't have £50k to spend so don’t have to worry about the depreciation, though I will be able to afford one sooner if its really bad

Would that 3.5 not be a bit big and heavy??

[Fittster]

Sam_68 said:

The track record for residuals on 2+2 Lotuses wouldn't encourage me to blow £50K on one, either.
.

What new car can you spend 50K on without getting spanked on residuals?

[bogie]

sure its not going to weight <1000Kg ...an S2 Exige is nearly up to that now in full trim !

But if they can keep it under 1300Kg and 300bhp it should be fine.

any car that holds 50% after 3 years would be pretty rare these days...so just buy an 18-24 month old one

[GravelBen]

cjm said:

Would that 3.5 not be a bit big and heavy??

If its an alloy block motor it may not be too bad - iirc the old 3.0 V6 and 4.0 V8 were both lighter than the 3S-GTE 2.0 turbo from the Celica/MR2(Mk2)/Caldina etc (And the MR2T was still under 1300kg).

Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 6th September 13:32

[Boggy]

2 Seater at first I think, I thought it would be around 1100kg?

Just imagine if it look's anything like this?


Boggy

Edited by Boggy on Thursday 6th September 15:21

[S Works]

If it does look like that, and IF it's a decent car, then I might just be tempted to start thinking about a new car...

[miro]

Gorgeous...... car that is

[rfoster]

Extracts from Autocar this week...

"Lotus's mid-sized coupe will start testing next month ahead of a launch in 2009. Based around a stretched Elise chassis and codenamed Eagle, the 2+2 is a vital ingredient in new Lotus Boss Mike Kimberley's rejuvenation strategy for the Hethel brand.

The Porsche Cayman rival is considered so important to Lotus's future that Kimberley brought the car forward, advancing its slot in the product plan by pushing back the flagship Esprit supercar to 2010. It is now scheduled for launch at the London Motor show in 2008.

Rather than use a front engined/rear drive version of Lotus's VVA, capable of being built in mid and and front-engined layouts from the same structural building blocks, Eagle is understood to be based on a stretched and extended version of today's Elise structure. The engine is tipped to be a Toyota V6 with a capacity of 3.0 litres. Power output will be close to 300bhp.

Priced from around £40k, Eagle is meant to plug the gap in Lotus's range between the £25 Elise and the £70 Esprit, a role that the disappointing Europa struggles to fill.

But it's unclear how Lotus will package the two-plus-two cabin and mid-engined layout while retaining elegant proportions. Very few such designs have made production and successful ones are even thinner on the ground.

According to inside information, it appears the design compromise will be rear cabin space, the second row of seats is likely to be too tight for adults.

Eagle's styling is said to be remarkably reminiscent of the M250, a previous Lotus designed for a mid-sized, mid-engined Porsche-competitor that was canned in 2001 as too expensive to engineer.

It's also unclear how Eagle will fir in with the Europa. Lotus has denied a plan to start Europa production in China as part of a deal to develop a new family of cars for bus maker Jinhua Neoplan. But it remains a possibility, the Elan was hived off to Kia in the mid 1990's."

[Fittster]

Can't say I'm over optimistic about this. A mid engine 2+2, the only example that springs to mind is the Ferrari Mondial.

Front engine would have made the styling and packaging much easier. I have the feeling this is being done as Lotus don't have the cash to engineer a new platform and are trying to stretch the elise a bit further.

[tricky 100]

Boggy said:

2 Seater at first I think, I thought it would be around 1100kg?

Just imagine if it look's anything like this?







Boggy

Edited by Boggy on Thursday 6th September 14:00

I hope not , that just looks like a variant of the Elise !

[Boggy]

Fittster said:

Can't say I'm over optimistic about this. A mid engine 2+2, the only example that springs to mind is the Ferrari Mondial.

Front engine would have made the styling and packaging much easier. I have the feeling this is being done as Lotus don't have the cash to engineer a new platform and are trying to stretch the elise a bit further.

It's going to be a 2 seater first not a 2 + 2

Boggy

[Boggy]

tricky 100 said:

Boggy said:

2 Seater at first I think, I thought it would be around 1100kg?

Just imagine if it look's anything like this?







Boggy

Edited by Boggy on Thursday 6th September 14:00

I hope not , that just looks like a variant of the Elise !

Sorry I'll have to disagree with you here this car is stunning, sure it's got Elise DNA but all the same this will walk out of the showroom

Boggy

[Cino]

rfoster said:

it's unclear how Lotus will package the two-plus-two cabin and mid-engined layout while retaining elegant proportions. Very few such designs have made production and successful ones are even thinner on the ground.

I'm struggling to see how a car with 4 seats can be properly mid-engined. If you shift the engine back behind the rear seats then isn't it rear engined, like a 911? Putting a decent sized boot behind that (which they surely need for this model) would make the proportions really odd, and surely the engine still wouldn't be anywhere near the middle of the car's length. I know info from Boggy says it will likely be more like an M250 at launch, the extra seats must be added at some point. Doesn't having rear seats too small for adults compromise the 2+2 idea? You can still presumably fit a kid or two in there, but only up to a certain age. i think that some other 60s/70s Lotus +2 cars had rear seats only suitable for children, although they were a smaller business in those days.

[Boggy]

Cino said:

rfoster said:

it's unclear how Lotus will package the two-plus-two cabin and mid-engined layout while retaining elegant proportions. Very few such designs have made production and successful ones are even thinner on the ground.

I'm struggling to see how a car with 4 seats can be properly mid-engined. If you shift the engine back behind the rear seats then isn't it rear engined, like a 911? Putting a decent sized boot behind that (which they surely need for this model) would make the proportions really odd, and surely the engine still wouldn't be anywhere near the middle of the car's length. I know info from Boggy says it will likely be more like an M250 at launch, the extra seats must be added at some point. Doesn't having rear seats too small for adults compromise the 2+2 idea? You can still presumably fit a kid or two in there, but only up to a certain age. i think that some other 60s/70s Lotus +2 cars had rear seats only suitable for children, although they were a smaller business in those days.

I think they are going after some of the Porsche market as opposed to creating a proper 2 + 2 say like the RX8, it's quite a big issue for some people not having a couple of seat's that they can use either for shopping or Children

Boggy

[L100NYY]

Cino said:

rfoster said:

it's unclear how Lotus will package the two-plus-two cabin and mid-engined layout while retaining elegant proportions. Very few such designs have made production and successful ones are even thinner on the ground.

I'm struggling to see how a car with 4 seats can be properly mid-engined. If you shift the engine back behind the rear seats then isn't it rear engined, like a 911? Putting a decent sized boot behind that (which they surely need for this model)

A 911 is rear engined as the engine is located behind the rear axle not due to the fact it's behind the rear seats. The rear seats location has nowt to do with whether a car is mid engined etc.

[Boggy]

L100NYY said:

Cino said:

rfoster said:

it's unclear how Lotus will package the two-plus-two cabin and mid-engined layout while retaining elegant proportions. Very few such designs have made production and successful ones are even thinner on the ground.

I'm struggling to see how a car with 4 seats can be properly mid-engined. If you shift the engine back behind the rear seats then isn't it rear engined, like a 911? Putting a decent sized boot behind that (which they surely need for this model)

A 911 is rear engined as the engine is located behind the rear axle not due to the fact it's behind the rear seats. The rear seats location has nowt to do with whether a car is mid engined etc.

Come on Ben give us some more info mate

I'm off

Boggy