Discussion
Just having a chat on the phone with a guy who is looking to buy a 135R - mine is for sale.
He's veering towards the 160bhp model as he thinks the extra horses will be more useful. I've owned a few S1 111's, driven an S2 111S and have had the legs on a few of them on runs - and im damned if the 156bhp S2 is quicker that the 135R/143bhp S1 !??
What says ?
He's veering towards the 160bhp model as he thinks the extra horses will be more useful. I've owned a few S1 111's, driven an S2 111S and have had the legs on a few of them on runs - and im damned if the 156bhp S2 is quicker that the 135R/143bhp S1 !??
What says ?
That was my way of thinking as well Kevin when buying. The VVC engine is probably a bit stronger but the 135R's CR box negates the difference in bhp IMHO. Even the 111R didn't feel tons quicker to me and thats a 60bhp advantage. Only after 80mph have I ever felt they had the legs on me.
Anyway...<shrugs shoulders>..just thought id guage opinion !
Anyway...<shrugs shoulders>..just thought id guage opinion !
malbon said:
Just having a chat on the phone with a guy who is looking to buy a 135R - mine is for sale.
He's veering towards the 160bhp model as he thinks the extra horses will be more useful. I've owned a few S1 111's, driven an S2 111S and have had the legs on a few of them on runs - and im damned if the 156bhp S2 is quicker that the 135R/143bhp S1 !??
What says ?
Leave this guy with his illusions... He's veering towards the 160bhp model as he thinks the extra horses will be more useful. I've owned a few S1 111's, driven an S2 111S and have had the legs on a few of them on runs - and im damned if the 156bhp S2 is quicker that the 135R/143bhp S1 !??
What says ?
As you know (but not this guy) it's not the bulk power which is important but the ratio power to weight....
fentuz said:
malbon said:
Just having a chat on the phone with a guy who is looking to buy a 135R - mine is for sale.
He's veering towards the 160bhp model as he thinks the extra horses will be more useful. I've owned a few S1 111's, driven an S2 111S and have had the legs on a few of them on runs - and im damned if the 156bhp S2 is quicker that the 135R/143bhp S1 !??
What says ?
Leave this guy with his illusions... He's veering towards the 160bhp model as he thinks the extra horses will be more useful. I've owned a few S1 111's, driven an S2 111S and have had the legs on a few of them on runs - and im damned if the 156bhp S2 is quicker that the 135R/143bhp S1 !??
What says ?
As you know (but not this guy) it's not the bulk power which is important but the ratio power to weight....
In real life, production Elises are fairly close up to 80-90 mph.
As everyone had said, the 111s is a great compromise, but if you want a track car for a few miles per annum and dont want to spend money on suspension/wheels then get a 135R.
Or get an 111s and fit an Ohlins/Nitron, buy an extra set of wheels and have the best of both worlds
Haha...Now I can understand his thinking from the outset.
156bhp vs 135bhp in standard guise.
However...(Nick ) as Fentuz says its all about power to weight ratio.
The 111s is claimed to be 806 kgs whereas the 135R is claimed to be 720 kgs giving 197 bhp/ton vs 190 bhp/ton respectively. Add the CR box into the mixer and the better suspension and I wouldn't be putting good money on the 111s winning the fight !
This isn't a 'Which is better?' thread - just curious to get an impression from people who have driven the two !
When I was looking I drove them both and took the 135R as it felt and looked more special. However with the prices so closely matched looking back I would of tried to get as faster car as possible for my money - which I am still sure I did. (Jez F wouldn't sell me his Audi S1 at the time
)
Anyway...carry on !
156bhp vs 135bhp in standard guise.
However...(Nick
) as Fentuz says its all about power to weight ratio.The 111s is claimed to be 806 kgs whereas the 135R is claimed to be 720 kgs giving 197 bhp/ton vs 190 bhp/ton respectively. Add the CR box into the mixer and the better suspension and I wouldn't be putting good money on the 111s winning the fight !
This isn't a 'Which is better?' thread - just curious to get an impression from people who have driven the two !
When I was looking I drove them both and took the 135R as it felt and looked more special. However with the prices so closely matched looking back I would of tried to get as faster car as possible for my money - which I am still sure I did. (Jez F wouldn't sell me his Audi S1 at the time
)Anyway...carry on !
going cross country for a hard run, variants like the 135R and S1 S160 will kick the arse off nearly anything with wheels. You have to be bl00dy confident in a 135r because the suspension is very hard and can "skip" on rough roads.
The 111s is a great compromise, it is fast it is comfortable to do a long journey.
135r is a purists car
The 111s is a great compromise, it is fast it is comfortable to do a long journey.
135r is a purists car
160bhp gives you more pub bragging rights
my 135R with B & C backbox and piper 4 into 2 into 1 made 141bhp on the dyno. Have a K & N sucking in warm air which the guy estimated cost a few hourse power so I'd say 135bhp std is about right.
As Malbon says the 135R feels quicker due to the g/box........ 129lbft of torque @ 5000 too
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D330_...
my 135R with B & C backbox and piper 4 into 2 into 1 made 141bhp on the dyno. Have a K & N sucking in warm air which the guy estimated cost a few hourse power so I'd say 135bhp std is about right.
As Malbon says the 135R feels quicker due to the g/box........ 129lbft of torque @ 5000 too
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D330_...
malbon said:
Haha...Now I can understand his thinking from the outset.
156bhp vs 135bhp in standard guise.
However...(Nick ) as Fentuz says its all about power to weight ratio.
The 111s is claimed to be 806 kgs whereas the 135R is claimed to be 720 kgs giving 197 bhp/ton vs 190 bhp/ton respectively. Add the CR box into the mixer and the better suspension and I wouldn't be putting good money on the 111s winning the fight !
This isn't a 'Which is better?' thread - just curious to get an impression from people who have driven the two !
When I was looking I drove them both and took the 135R as it felt and looked more special. However with the prices so closely matched looking back I would of tried to get as faster car as possible for my money - which I am still sure I did. (Jez F wouldn't sell me his Audi S1 at the time)
Anyway...carry on !
135R at 720kg? 156bhp vs 135bhp in standard guise.
However...(Nick
) as Fentuz says its all about power to weight ratio.The 111s is claimed to be 806 kgs whereas the 135R is claimed to be 720 kgs giving 197 bhp/ton vs 190 bhp/ton respectively. Add the CR box into the mixer and the better suspension and I wouldn't be putting good money on the 111s winning the fight !
This isn't a 'Which is better?' thread - just curious to get an impression from people who have driven the two !
When I was looking I drove them both and took the 135R as it felt and looked more special. However with the prices so closely matched looking back I would of tried to get as faster car as possible for my money - which I am still sure I did. (Jez F wouldn't sell me his Audi S1 at the time
)Anyway...carry on !
The 806kg for the 111s is for the mod04 (electrics) cars the mod02 are at 760.
Use real numbers and the diff would be higher in favour of the 111s.
But that is not the point.
I used the maths to show the flaw in the thinking.
So apart from your dodgy numbers we agree
Lotusnick S2 said:
malbon said:
Haha...Now I can understand his thinking from the outset.
156bhp vs 135bhp in standard guise.
However...(Nick ) as Fentuz says its all about power to weight ratio.
The 111s is claimed to be 806 kgs whereas the 135R is claimed to be 720 kgs giving 197 bhp/ton vs 190 bhp/ton respectively. Add the CR box into the mixer and the better suspension and I wouldn't be putting good money on the 111s winning the fight !
This isn't a 'Which is better?' thread - just curious to get an impression from people who have driven the two !
When I was looking I drove them both and took the 135R as it felt and looked more special. However with the prices so closely matched looking back I would of tried to get as faster car as possible for my money - which I am still sure I did. (Jez F wouldn't sell me his Audi S1 at the time)
Anyway...carry on !
135R at 720kg? 156bhp vs 135bhp in standard guise.
However...(Nick
) as Fentuz says its all about power to weight ratio.The 111s is claimed to be 806 kgs whereas the 135R is claimed to be 720 kgs giving 197 bhp/ton vs 190 bhp/ton respectively. Add the CR box into the mixer and the better suspension and I wouldn't be putting good money on the 111s winning the fight !
This isn't a 'Which is better?' thread - just curious to get an impression from people who have driven the two !
When I was looking I drove them both and took the 135R as it felt and looked more special. However with the prices so closely matched looking back I would of tried to get as faster car as possible for my money - which I am still sure I did. (Jez F wouldn't sell me his Audi S1 at the time
)Anyway...carry on !
The 806kg for the 111s is for the mod04 (electrics) cars the mod02 are at 760.
Use real numbers and the diff would be higher in favour of the 111s.
But that is not the point.
I used the maths to show the flaw in the thinking.
So apart from your dodgy numbers we agree
jb111s said:
Lotusnick S2 said:
malbon said:
Haha...Now I can understand his thinking from the outset.
156bhp vs 135bhp in standard guise.
However...(Nick ) as Fentuz says its all about power to weight ratio.
The 111s is claimed to be 806 kgs whereas the 135R is claimed to be 720 kgs giving 197 bhp/ton vs 190 bhp/ton respectively. Add the CR box into the mixer and the better suspension and I wouldn't be putting good money on the 111s winning the fight !
This isn't a 'Which is better?' thread - just curious to get an impression from people who have driven the two !
When I was looking I drove them both and took the 135R as it felt and looked more special. However with the prices so closely matched looking back I would of tried to get as faster car as possible for my money - which I am still sure I did. (Jez F wouldn't sell me his Audi S1 at the time)
Anyway...carry on !
135R at 720kg? 156bhp vs 135bhp in standard guise.
However...(Nick
) as Fentuz says its all about power to weight ratio.The 111s is claimed to be 806 kgs whereas the 135R is claimed to be 720 kgs giving 197 bhp/ton vs 190 bhp/ton respectively. Add the CR box into the mixer and the better suspension and I wouldn't be putting good money on the 111s winning the fight !
This isn't a 'Which is better?' thread - just curious to get an impression from people who have driven the two !
When I was looking I drove them both and took the 135R as it felt and looked more special. However with the prices so closely matched looking back I would of tried to get as faster car as possible for my money - which I am still sure I did. (Jez F wouldn't sell me his Audi S1 at the time
)Anyway...carry on !
The 806kg for the 111s is for the mod04 (electrics) cars the mod02 are at 760.
Use real numbers and the diff would be higher in favour of the 111s.
But that is not the point.
I used the maths to show the flaw in the thinking.
So apart from your dodgy numbers we agree
RobM77 said:
Did things like aircon, electric windows etc become standard in '04? Also, is this including the hard top, which I think also became standard then...
I have MY04 111S without aircon but it does have electric windows and a hardtop. Better sound deadening too and maybe more air vents? Not sure.Edited by kambites on Wednesday 31st October 11:38
kambites said:
RobM77 said:
Did things like aircon, electric windows etc become standard in '04? Also, is this including the hard top, which I think also became standard then...
I have MY04 111S without aircon but it does have electric windows and a hardtop. Better sound deadening too and maybe more air vents? Not sure.Edited by kambites on Wednesday 31st October 11:38
Electric windows actually weigh less than the manual version.
The biggest increase in weight is usally from insualton, whether that be the sound or heat variety. My 111R is most probably one of the lightest out there, not because I had anything removed, but because I didnt have the Touring Pack added. When I was talking to Dealers about it the estimates varied from 60-80Kgs, so even at just 60Kgs thats a significant differnece to a 840kg car. At the time of ordering my 111R, Lotus reconfirmed the order as it was the first order they had received without the Touring Pack requested. It wasnt long after that, it became standard anyway
The biggest increase in weight is usally from insualton, whether that be the sound or heat variety. My 111R is most probably one of the lightest out there, not because I had anything removed, but because I didnt have the Touring Pack added. When I was talking to Dealers about it the estimates varied from 60-80Kgs, so even at just 60Kgs thats a significant differnece to a 840kg car. At the time of ordering my 111R, Lotus reconfirmed the order as it was the first order they had received without the Touring Pack requested. It wasnt long after that, it became standard anyway
http://www.bell-colvill.co.uk/Lotus/Elise135r.htm
<<Weight:
Dry weight 710Kg
Kerb weight 757Kg (Including full tank of fuel) >>
That said look at the power curves above and consider the gearing..... know which I would (and did) choose
<<Weight:
Dry weight 710Kg
Kerb weight 757Kg (Including full tank of fuel) >>
That said look at the power curves above and consider the gearing..... know which I would (and did) choose
As I said before, it's a bizarre comparison, as these two cars are at completely the opposite ends of the Elise spectrum. The 111S is intended as an everyday road car for someone that wants a bit more quiet, comfort and "any rev" driveability than the standard car provides, and the 135R is intended as a weekend and track day car. My 111S is perfect for my needs (everyday transport) - I have to say that the performance didn't even come into it for me - I bought it primarily for the sound deadening and driveability of the VVC engine.
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