Trade from Integra Type R to Elise S1 ?
Discussion
Hi all,
Perhaps its my usual hangover thinking on a saturday morning, but I am REALLY tempted to trade my Integra Type R for an Elise S1.
But should I?
The Integra Type R is a brilliant car, I've had it just over 6 months now, and it really is the best FWD car I have ever driven. It is a tall order to replace it, as it is comfortable, reliable, fast and handles really well. It has a gem of an engine which really howls when its on song, and its rare (its a JDM model), I hardly ever see any others about. Not only that, but its practical too, with its rear seats and large boot. I do *occasionally* carry mates in it, and it would be a shame to lose that ability, but I could live with it.
However, I have always had that itch to own something that was not only a convertible, but also a RWD car. The Elise as a car ticks all of the right boxes for me. Its light, doesnt really look *too* hairdresser, and its raw, and focused. I've always loved cars that are like go karts and I imagine the Elise is about as go-kart as it gets on the practical side of a caterham.
However, it does lose out somewhat on practicality, but I can live with that. However, this car would be a daily driver. How suitable is it as a daily driver? I do about 12000 miles a year. How reliable is it? I know it has a K-series engine which is a good engine but I have been warned by a mate who runs his own garage that i should avoid them as they have headgasket problems?
How would it compare with the ITR in terms of running costs, i.e. servicing, insurance, fuel economy etc? I am guessing it will be more economical than the ITR after to speaking to other Elise owners who tell me they almost always get 40 MPG. Having been out in a 135 Sport, I am guessing I would lose some performance going from my 200 BHP Teg to a 120 bhp Elise, but I am not too bothered about that as long as it didnt feel TOO slow. I am not bothered about going over 100 mph, in fact it might not be a bad thing if it isnt too top-endy as my teg seems to pull almost unrelentingly up to 140 mph, and could get me into trouble one of these days :haha:
How are they at conveying a sensation of speed ? One thing I like about the teg is the way that 60 mph actually feels like you are motoring, and on a country road theres seldom any need to travel at much more than about 80 mph to have a total riot of a time.
Sorry for all of the questions, but I really do want to make an informed decision because the Integra is such a great car that I dont really want to regret getting rid of it for a car that is less practical and potentially less reliable, but at the same time, the Elise is a little go-kart that its possible to have great fun in at legal speeds and also it would help me learn RWD driving which as a petrolhead I have to do at some point in my life. I have tried an MX5 (too slow, couldnt live with the image) and an MR2 (again, too slow, boring engine note)... but I am guessing the Elise will be a quicker, more fun car than either of those. I actually found the MR2 fun to drive, but the Elise is lighter and more raw than that car.
What do you think?
Perhaps its my usual hangover thinking on a saturday morning, but I am REALLY tempted to trade my Integra Type R for an Elise S1.
But should I?
The Integra Type R is a brilliant car, I've had it just over 6 months now, and it really is the best FWD car I have ever driven. It is a tall order to replace it, as it is comfortable, reliable, fast and handles really well. It has a gem of an engine which really howls when its on song, and its rare (its a JDM model), I hardly ever see any others about. Not only that, but its practical too, with its rear seats and large boot. I do *occasionally* carry mates in it, and it would be a shame to lose that ability, but I could live with it.
However, I have always had that itch to own something that was not only a convertible, but also a RWD car. The Elise as a car ticks all of the right boxes for me. Its light, doesnt really look *too* hairdresser, and its raw, and focused. I've always loved cars that are like go karts and I imagine the Elise is about as go-kart as it gets on the practical side of a caterham.
However, it does lose out somewhat on practicality, but I can live with that. However, this car would be a daily driver. How suitable is it as a daily driver? I do about 12000 miles a year. How reliable is it? I know it has a K-series engine which is a good engine but I have been warned by a mate who runs his own garage that i should avoid them as they have headgasket problems?
How would it compare with the ITR in terms of running costs, i.e. servicing, insurance, fuel economy etc? I am guessing it will be more economical than the ITR after to speaking to other Elise owners who tell me they almost always get 40 MPG. Having been out in a 135 Sport, I am guessing I would lose some performance going from my 200 BHP Teg to a 120 bhp Elise, but I am not too bothered about that as long as it didnt feel TOO slow. I am not bothered about going over 100 mph, in fact it might not be a bad thing if it isnt too top-endy as my teg seems to pull almost unrelentingly up to 140 mph, and could get me into trouble one of these days :haha:
How are they at conveying a sensation of speed ? One thing I like about the teg is the way that 60 mph actually feels like you are motoring, and on a country road theres seldom any need to travel at much more than about 80 mph to have a total riot of a time.
Sorry for all of the questions, but I really do want to make an informed decision because the Integra is such a great car that I dont really want to regret getting rid of it for a car that is less practical and potentially less reliable, but at the same time, the Elise is a little go-kart that its possible to have great fun in at legal speeds and also it would help me learn RWD driving which as a petrolhead I have to do at some point in my life. I have tried an MX5 (too slow, couldnt live with the image) and an MR2 (again, too slow, boring engine note)... but I am guessing the Elise will be a quicker, more fun car than either of those. I actually found the MR2 fun to drive, but the Elise is lighter and more raw than that car.
What do you think?
H2DaE said:
None of the Elises should be slower than the Integra 
Elise S1: 118 bhp, 723kg, power to weight ratio = 165 bhp per tonne, 0-60 in 6.4 seconds, 0-100 in 18 seconds, top speed 124 mphIntegra DC2 JDM: 197 bhp, 1090 kg, power to weight ratio = 180 bhp per tonne, 0-60 in 6.2 seconds, 0-100 in 15.5 seconds, top speed 147 mph
Considerably slower in my book.
But then again, as I said, I am not bothered about that as long as it still feels reasonably quick, which I am sure it does.
If I wanted a car for straight line drags, I'd buy a Skyline and tune it...
pbirkett said:
H2DaE said:
None of the Elises should be slower than the Integra
Elise S1: 118 bhp, 723kg, power to weight ratio = 165 bhp per tonne, 0-60 in 6.4 seconds, 0-100 in 18 seconds, top speed 124 mphIntegra DC2 JDM: 197 bhp, 1090 kg, power to weight ratio = 180 bhp per tonne, 0-60 in 6.2 seconds, 0-100 in 15.5 seconds, top speed 147 mph
Engine Size 1796 cc
Cylinders 4
0-60 mph 5.7 s
Power Output 118 bhp
Valves 16
Torque 165 Nm 121 lb-ft
Top Speed 126 mph
I would imagine being that close to the road would make it feel much faster than the teg
Edited by H2DaE on Saturday 3rd November 07:57
It was from letstoquebhp.
Granted they are calculations, but I have a hard time believing that a 118 bhp Elise would live with a teg above 60.
But anyway mate, no disrespect but I dont want to get into a silly argument about performance, that is not what the thread was for, so by all means, if you have some useful input then please share, otherwise can we forget about this topic of conversation?
Granted they are calculations, but I have a hard time believing that a 118 bhp Elise would live with a teg above 60.
But anyway mate, no disrespect but I dont want to get into a silly argument about performance, that is not what the thread was for, so by all means, if you have some useful input then please share, otherwise can we forget about this topic of conversation?
I would have thought that a 120bhp Elise would beat an integra round a track but I'm sure someone will come along and post Evo lap figures shortly. Real world maybe different of course, to get the maximum out of an elise you need good driving skills (like those I dont have!)
The benefit of an Elise is it's handling rather than it's flat out speed, although it's faster than most things on the road obviously. The standard engine tends to suffer post 80mph, I believe 0-60 is 5.6 secs but 0-100 somewhere around 15. The 111s will drop the 0-100 to around 12 to 13 I believe.
The good thing is that you're effectively sitting onthe deck so the sensation of speed will be greater than in your current car. The feedback will be better too, you'll feel the road, the tyres, the white lines!
Costs wise, you'll probably find it's slightly cheaper to run. Insurance maybe a little more because it's a soft top but road tax may be less with the new banding, servicing is pretty good at independents, A service around £130ish, trye approx £100 a corner.
You'll save money because it will never be your turn to drive your mates to the pub!
The benefit of an Elise is it's handling rather than it's flat out speed, although it's faster than most things on the road obviously. The standard engine tends to suffer post 80mph, I believe 0-60 is 5.6 secs but 0-100 somewhere around 15. The 111s will drop the 0-100 to around 12 to 13 I believe.
The good thing is that you're effectively sitting onthe deck so the sensation of speed will be greater than in your current car. The feedback will be better too, you'll feel the road, the tyres, the white lines!
Costs wise, you'll probably find it's slightly cheaper to run. Insurance maybe a little more because it's a soft top but road tax may be less with the new banding, servicing is pretty good at independents, A service around £130ish, trye approx £100 a corner.
You'll save money because it will never be your turn to drive your mates to the pub!
Hi Tony,
Thanks for your reply, I am not sure on the saving money part because I rarely drive my mates to the pub anyway (well maybe once a month) and none of them tight gits ever volunteer!
I am wondering about insurance because the basic one is group 17 apparently whereas my teg being an import is group 20 so I would have thought the lizzie would be cheaper to insure.
Any comments about what I can expect for reliability? From what I can gather so far, it doesnt seem *TOO* bad.
Got to say I am REALLY tempted as the Elise was always on my "to do" list, in fact in some ways I almost wish I had gone straight from my old 182 to the Elise, but the teg was an impulse buy which to be fair i have never regretted and it is a great car but the elise represents a totally different experience i shouldnt wonder.
Thanks for your reply, I am not sure on the saving money part because I rarely drive my mates to the pub anyway (well maybe once a month) and none of them tight gits ever volunteer!
I am wondering about insurance because the basic one is group 17 apparently whereas my teg being an import is group 20 so I would have thought the lizzie would be cheaper to insure.
Any comments about what I can expect for reliability? From what I can gather so far, it doesnt seem *TOO* bad.
Got to say I am REALLY tempted as the Elise was always on my "to do" list, in fact in some ways I almost wish I had gone straight from my old 182 to the Elise, but the teg was an impulse buy which to be fair i have never regretted and it is a great car but the elise represents a totally different experience i shouldnt wonder.
I am sure I have read here or other places or both that the Elise, whilst rapid off the line, gets edged away from by such cars like Clio 182's and the like above 60-70ish, so I would have guessed the OP is correct.
Not the point though. I love the thought of going more hardcore, do it!! I'm not an owner, so no direct experience.
What about the VX?
Seriously though, there seem to me to be fewer niggles, and less concern over head gaskets...
Ahh well plenty of owners will be about to put me straight I guess!
Edited for spelling
Not the point though. I love the thought of going more hardcore, do it!! I'm not an owner, so no direct experience.
What about the VX?
Seriously though, there seem to me to be fewer niggles, and less concern over head gaskets...
Ahh well plenty of owners will be about to put me straight I guess!
Edited for spelling
Edited by Dimski on Saturday 3rd November 08:43
Edited by Dimski on Saturday 3rd November 08:44
What is the reason for wanting to get rid of the teg. Looking at your original post it looks as though the teg ticks all you're boxes apart from the fact that it's not rear wheel drive. If you're looking for something harsher had you considered stripping the teg, roll cage etc & upgrading the suspension. If you did that I don't think there would be much between a teg & an elise round a track (mind you I'm biased !!)
Choppers said:
What is the reason for wanting to get rid of the teg. Looking at your original post it looks as though the teg ticks all you're boxes apart from the fact that it's not rear wheel drive. If you're looking for something harsher had you considered stripping the teg, roll cage etc & upgrading the suspension. If you did that I don't think there would be much between a teg & an elise round a track (mind you I'm biased !!)
Its nothing that the car has done wrong, and believe me it wouldnt be an easy decision to get rid of it for sure. Its not that I want something harsher neccesarily, just the little bug I have about RWD and convertible.If I did keep the teg though I'd probably modify it a little (exhaust + filter) as although the car sounds magnificent on full chat it doesnt really have an exhaust note to speak of.
Just a word of caution but a sub £9k elise will be an early one. Thats not to say you wont be able to find a good one, as your budget is into that territory rather than the slightly less A1 cars that are now sitting at £8k or thereabouts (no doubt there is the odd exception..).
In the first 12 months of owning mine I had spent the best part of £7k and had done less than 5000 miles during that time as a second car.
That aside, if you look for one that the previous owner has done all the consumables, you may find it costs very little to run. I sold mine for not far north of your budget and it had new discs/pads, new tyres, S2 bilstein suspension, new 421 manifold, aluminium radiator etc etc as well as other upgrades (and a £3k engine conversion). In short, the elise has several achilles heels that once dealt with, the car should prove reliable. I ironed out all the faults in a short period. Whilst that cost me a small fortune, it proved 100% reliable thereafter for 18 months and the only additional outlay was on upgrades rather than replacements from necessity.
When I go shopping for her replacement once the winter is out of the way, I'll be more cautious at looking for the weak points and will take more notice of the advice often given to avoid being bothered by age or mileage, and take a closer look at what the weak points are, and whether they have been dealt with already by the previous owner.
In the first 12 months of owning mine I had spent the best part of £7k and had done less than 5000 miles during that time as a second car.
That aside, if you look for one that the previous owner has done all the consumables, you may find it costs very little to run. I sold mine for not far north of your budget and it had new discs/pads, new tyres, S2 bilstein suspension, new 421 manifold, aluminium radiator etc etc as well as other upgrades (and a £3k engine conversion). In short, the elise has several achilles heels that once dealt with, the car should prove reliable. I ironed out all the faults in a short period. Whilst that cost me a small fortune, it proved 100% reliable thereafter for 18 months and the only additional outlay was on upgrades rather than replacements from necessity.
When I go shopping for her replacement once the winter is out of the way, I'll be more cautious at looking for the weak points and will take more notice of the advice often given to avoid being bothered by age or mileage, and take a closer look at what the weak points are, and whether they have been dealt with already by the previous owner.
Hi Schnozz,
Thanks for your input. I think what you have said there has put me off a little to be honest, as I wouldnt have that kind of cash to spend, but that said, if I did go for one I would take your advice and make sure that it has been well maintained and get it thoroughly checked over first.
However, another thought has entered my mind. An MX5
Seriously!
I have driven one and thought it was dog slow, BUT, could I buy a cheap mk1 and turbo it for under £7k do you think?
Thanks for your input. I think what you have said there has put me off a little to be honest, as I wouldnt have that kind of cash to spend, but that said, if I did go for one I would take your advice and make sure that it has been well maintained and get it thoroughly checked over first.
However, another thought has entered my mind. An MX5
Seriously!
I have driven one and thought it was dog slow, BUT, could I buy a cheap mk1 and turbo it for under £7k do you think?
Dont let me put you off, they really are fantastic cars. Personally, however, doing 12k a year I would be inclined to stick with the Teg.
I was unlucky in the catalogue of things that needed doing in a short space of time. I expect the new owner of mine will have nothing to replace or sort out now for some time and he didnt pay much over your budget. It's also fair to say that when I replaced parts I replaced them with expensive top end parts rather than the direct replacement, and hence my costs were more expensive than they could have been.
MX5s have never really done it for me I'm afraid, turboed or not.
I was unlucky in the catalogue of things that needed doing in a short space of time. I expect the new owner of mine will have nothing to replace or sort out now for some time and he didnt pay much over your budget. It's also fair to say that when I replaced parts I replaced them with expensive top end parts rather than the direct replacement, and hence my costs were more expensive than they could have been.
MX5s have never really done it for me I'm afraid, turboed or not.
My S1 would probably sell for say £9k.
Last year was my first year of ownership and she covered 18k totally reliable miles. Only expenditure being servicing (cheap), brake pads,tyres and wheel bearings.
I'm taking her on my first TD in a couple of weeks and she'll have an oil change and check over before then but I don't expect to find anything wrong. She's the sort of car I happily just get into, fuel up and drive wherever I've got to get to without a second thought.
In terms of bang for your buck its very easy and relatively cheap (say £1500) to get a boggo Elise up to about 150bhp (check out DVA website). Combine that with a C/R box (from about £400) and you have a car which is probably in the sub 14 second bracket to 100 but which will be capable of playing with 'supercars' on track.
On the road any car is only as quick as the driver is either brave or (imo) stupid. The great thing about the Elise is that it constantly feels alive. It talks to you continuously, a stream of information arriving at your fingertips, backside and inner ear. It also feels much faster than you are actually travelling. Basically you'd be swopping the best handling front drive car around for the best handling car there is. I think you'd love it, particularly as you seem to be a keen driver rather than someone concrened about pub bragging rights on acceleration etc.
My thoughts on the Elise are that you need to spend about £10k (the sort of money I'd ask for mine on a sunny day) but at this time of year if you are prepared to travel, drive a few cars to get the feel of them (differences between a good'un and a dog are amazing) and be patient you'll find a nice car for £9k.
Look for a boggo S1 with S2 suspension fitted and good provenance and servicing history from a good specialist (although don't let DIY servicing put you off - the're simple cars). Also once you've found a likely candidate get it checked over by a Lotus specialist.
Try a couple - I think you'll like it. And don't forget the roof comes off too!
If you decide to stick with what you have then you still have a great car - sort of thing I'd have as a second set of wheels if I didn't need a more family orientated wagon.
Last year was my first year of ownership and she covered 18k totally reliable miles. Only expenditure being servicing (cheap), brake pads,tyres and wheel bearings.
I'm taking her on my first TD in a couple of weeks and she'll have an oil change and check over before then but I don't expect to find anything wrong. She's the sort of car I happily just get into, fuel up and drive wherever I've got to get to without a second thought.
In terms of bang for your buck its very easy and relatively cheap (say £1500) to get a boggo Elise up to about 150bhp (check out DVA website). Combine that with a C/R box (from about £400) and you have a car which is probably in the sub 14 second bracket to 100 but which will be capable of playing with 'supercars' on track.
On the road any car is only as quick as the driver is either brave or (imo) stupid. The great thing about the Elise is that it constantly feels alive. It talks to you continuously, a stream of information arriving at your fingertips, backside and inner ear. It also feels much faster than you are actually travelling. Basically you'd be swopping the best handling front drive car around for the best handling car there is. I think you'd love it, particularly as you seem to be a keen driver rather than someone concrened about pub bragging rights on acceleration etc.
My thoughts on the Elise are that you need to spend about £10k (the sort of money I'd ask for mine on a sunny day) but at this time of year if you are prepared to travel, drive a few cars to get the feel of them (differences between a good'un and a dog are amazing) and be patient you'll find a nice car for £9k.
Look for a boggo S1 with S2 suspension fitted and good provenance and servicing history from a good specialist (although don't let DIY servicing put you off - the're simple cars). Also once you've found a likely candidate get it checked over by a Lotus specialist.
Try a couple - I think you'll like it. And don't forget the roof comes off too!
If you decide to stick with what you have then you still have a great car - sort of thing I'd have as a second set of wheels if I didn't need a more family orientated wagon.
Hi mate, I dunno, I think maybe its one of those pondering moments. All I have done all morning is think about the options. Every now and again I will just get the feeling that I want something new. And you know what, I am just not sure what I want to do. I've just given the teg a quick blast around the block, and I came back with a huge grin on my face, so I'm thinking maybe I will just keep it for now.
Part of the problem is I will end up in yet more debt if I get one and considering I am trying to get out of debt then it probably wont be a wise move, I may end up resenting it, and I dont want to do that. Not only that but if I do buy one and it ends up needing a lot of work then I will be ruined!
FWIW I have been out in an Elise before, and my overall impression was that it seemed like it would be good fun, but it was difficult to get in and out of and it was rather uncomfortable. To be fair, the teg almost just seems like a big FWD Elise in many respects, but has the advantage of having 4 seats, a big boot, and more comfort. Obviously it wont have the MPG or outright capability but it is huge fun, and anyone who owns one who "gets it" will have a hard time replacing one. As the Honda is reliable and practical, as well as a huge amount of fun, I think for now I will keep it, but I am not ruling out a liz in future, as it remains on my "to do" list
Part of the problem is I will end up in yet more debt if I get one and considering I am trying to get out of debt then it probably wont be a wise move, I may end up resenting it, and I dont want to do that. Not only that but if I do buy one and it ends up needing a lot of work then I will be ruined!
FWIW I have been out in an Elise before, and my overall impression was that it seemed like it would be good fun, but it was difficult to get in and out of and it was rather uncomfortable. To be fair, the teg almost just seems like a big FWD Elise in many respects, but has the advantage of having 4 seats, a big boot, and more comfort. Obviously it wont have the MPG or outright capability but it is huge fun, and anyone who owns one who "gets it" will have a hard time replacing one. As the Honda is reliable and practical, as well as a huge amount of fun, I think for now I will keep it, but I am not ruling out a liz in future, as it remains on my "to do" list
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