Europa post again...
Discussion
My wife is looking into buying a Europa S. To be honest, I will be driving it as much as she would. I know it receives very diverse opinions, and mostly negative. I’ve read the bad comment, and I don’t want to discuss the merit of the car here. I just want to get some hand on experience and information from current owner.
We both like the car. Actually we always love a Lotus and have toyed with the idea of an Elise 111R a few years back. But was put off by the not so satisfying built quality, small luggage capacity and difficulty in getting in and out of the car. That was a dealer demonstrator and had only done a few thousand miles, but there’re apparent rattle during the test drive.
The Europa is supposed to be easier to get in and out, larger luggage capacity and surpassingly better built quality? Saw a few used one at very attractive price, so we are really tempted. We having been to any test drive, but would like to get some advice and information form owners here. I know I probably won’t get much reply as the Europa is very rare. I did some research at SELOC, but it seems like more discussion on the Europa was happening here instead.
So for the money we have, we are probably looking at the early car with relatively high mileage. I kind of know the important issues on the cars, namely, the 225 bhp remap, upgrade brake, and GT pack with full leather interior.
I know the remap and brake can be done retrospectively. It’s a matter of negotiating with the dealer. But is the full leather GT pack be put in retrospectively as well? If so, what’s the cost?
Some say lotus has upgrade the interior at some point, but to be honest, I can’t see any difference from the interior photos of all those on sale in piston head. So what’s the improvement if any?
Can I expect the car to be rattle free for another few years? I know I’m asking a lot from a Lotus, I know the answer is probably no. But how bad are they and are they generally fixable? I’m owning an Alfa GTV V6 at the moment. So I’m used to higher attention in maintenance. But would a Lotus fair better?
What else to look out for? Bad door/window seal? Severe wind noise and leaky windows?
Thanks in advance.
We both like the car. Actually we always love a Lotus and have toyed with the idea of an Elise 111R a few years back. But was put off by the not so satisfying built quality, small luggage capacity and difficulty in getting in and out of the car. That was a dealer demonstrator and had only done a few thousand miles, but there’re apparent rattle during the test drive.
The Europa is supposed to be easier to get in and out, larger luggage capacity and surpassingly better built quality? Saw a few used one at very attractive price, so we are really tempted. We having been to any test drive, but would like to get some advice and information form owners here. I know I probably won’t get much reply as the Europa is very rare. I did some research at SELOC, but it seems like more discussion on the Europa was happening here instead.
So for the money we have, we are probably looking at the early car with relatively high mileage. I kind of know the important issues on the cars, namely, the 225 bhp remap, upgrade brake, and GT pack with full leather interior.
I know the remap and brake can be done retrospectively. It’s a matter of negotiating with the dealer. But is the full leather GT pack be put in retrospectively as well? If so, what’s the cost?
Some say lotus has upgrade the interior at some point, but to be honest, I can’t see any difference from the interior photos of all those on sale in piston head. So what’s the improvement if any?
Can I expect the car to be rattle free for another few years? I know I’m asking a lot from a Lotus, I know the answer is probably no. But how bad are they and are they generally fixable? I’m owning an Alfa GTV V6 at the moment. So I’m used to higher attention in maintenance. But would a Lotus fair better?
What else to look out for? Bad door/window seal? Severe wind noise and leaky windows?
Thanks in advance.
Have you read this?: http://www.pistonheads.com/lotus/default.asp?story...
I also like the Europa and have driven most of the variant's, I also have a good idea of what they actually feel like. I'm not sure if your going to get the Luxury touring pack + performance pack for less than 30k? Well not for the next year or so anyway they need to drop in value. I've got to be honest before you go any further drive it? you'll then be able to make a fair and proper decision
Boggy
Boggy
I believe the leather pack can be retro fitted or parts thereoff for about £1200. You could of course make me an offer on mine......
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/275474.htm
I'm sure we could come to a reasonable price.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/275474.htm
I'm sure we could come to a reasonable price.
fish said:
I believe the leather pack can be retro fitted or parts thereoff for about £1200. You could of course make me an offer on mine......
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/275474.htm
I'm sure we could come to a reasonable price.
This is the one you want my freind!http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/275474.htm
I'm sure we could come to a reasonable price.
Boggy
Yours really is fantastic. But it's too far for me to have a viewing/testdrive. I'm in London. I really want to find out if the Europa is for us first, before we would commit to travel such a distance. Apart from that, your suspansion setting is probably too harsh for us, particularly the car is going to be used mostly in central London. And I'm not too fancy with the alloys (No offence here, just personal taste). Thanks for the offer, let's see how I'm getting on with it at the test drive first.
fish said:
I believe the leather pack can be retro fitted or parts thereoff for about £1200. You could of course make me an offer on mine......
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/275474.htm
I'm sure we could come to a reasonable price.
Eh? Why are you selling?http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/275474.htm
I'm sure we could come to a reasonable price.
Hi
I have an Europa S. I managed to get a very low mileage one in black with full leather upgrade interior at a very good price. I have done 1000miles in the car and love it. I find it pretty easy to live with and it seems well build. I work for a race team and we have had a good look over it and there does not seem too much wrong. I am reasonably fit and have no problem getting in and out, however this is one thing to try during a test drive. The chassis feels very stiff. I hat rattles in a car and currently the Europa has one rattle from the trim behing the passengers seat on certain sorts of road surface. However it seems very easy to fix with a bit of Selastic, currently I just turn the radio up and ignore it.
The chassis has too much understeer in it but that can be fixed for £150 so no big deal. It was actually quite helpful whilst I was getting used to a mid engined car again as I had not drive one for a long time. I think most cars are engineered like this nowadays, the Elise is certainly simlar and responds well to the same fix.
If I was going to buy one I would go for one with the standard interior and pay for the upgrade if I got bored with it. There are a few around with the old interior so you will be able to haggle much harder with the dealer. I spoke to Chris at Bell and Colvill and he was very helpful and leant me a car to see if I liked it. They have chassis number 1 there for sale(http://www.bellandcolvill.co.uk/Lotus/UsedSearch.asp) which will be worth some cash one day as a collectors item if you are into that sort of thing. They have already tweaked the suspension on that one so it gives you a good idea of what a good one should feel like.
The car seems to have two modes of driving. Chilled out using below 4000rpm when you are just going quickly, and then pushing on using above 4000rpm when the fun really starts to happen!
cheers
Christian
I have an Europa S. I managed to get a very low mileage one in black with full leather upgrade interior at a very good price. I have done 1000miles in the car and love it. I find it pretty easy to live with and it seems well build. I work for a race team and we have had a good look over it and there does not seem too much wrong. I am reasonably fit and have no problem getting in and out, however this is one thing to try during a test drive. The chassis feels very stiff. I hat rattles in a car and currently the Europa has one rattle from the trim behing the passengers seat on certain sorts of road surface. However it seems very easy to fix with a bit of Selastic, currently I just turn the radio up and ignore it.
The chassis has too much understeer in it but that can be fixed for £150 so no big deal. It was actually quite helpful whilst I was getting used to a mid engined car again as I had not drive one for a long time. I think most cars are engineered like this nowadays, the Elise is certainly simlar and responds well to the same fix.
If I was going to buy one I would go for one with the standard interior and pay for the upgrade if I got bored with it. There are a few around with the old interior so you will be able to haggle much harder with the dealer. I spoke to Chris at Bell and Colvill and he was very helpful and leant me a car to see if I liked it. They have chassis number 1 there for sale(http://www.bellandcolvill.co.uk/Lotus/UsedSearch.asp) which will be worth some cash one day as a collectors item if you are into that sort of thing. They have already tweaked the suspension on that one so it gives you a good idea of what a good one should feel like.
The car seems to have two modes of driving. Chilled out using below 4000rpm when you are just going quickly, and then pushing on using above 4000rpm when the fun really starts to happen!
cheers
Christian
The Europa is a little easier to get in and out but not by much though. As for the rattles and build quality, well, it's a Lotus isn't it. I've never driven one but I sat in a couple and while they are a nicer interior than an elise, it's only because theres more carpet. The interior is pretty much a Federal Elise apart from a couple of strips of leather.
For me, there isn't enough of a difference between sitting in a 111R with a touring pack and the Europa.
After all it's only an elise thats been very slightly stretched and has a different engine and body.
For me, there isn't enough of a difference between sitting in a 111R with a touring pack and the Europa.
After all it's only an elise thats been very slightly stretched and has a different engine and body.
Finally, I've tested driven the Europa S at a dealer last Sat. This was the first time I saw one in metal. Loved the look and I found it's considerably easier to get in and out than the Elise. The boot is smaller than I expected. The interior plastic is horrendous as people suggested. But that's what I know before I go. And this can be cured by retro-fitting the GT leather pack, which was confirmed to be do-able at Lotus trim shop. So everything is good so far. I really love the car until the test drive!
The car drive really well and really confortable. But the engine is a massive disappointment. As told by the dealer, the car was fitted with the 225 upgrade. It's powerful and very quick, but the dramatic turbo lag is completely unaccepatable. And the noise produced by it is really just noise, and plenty of it even at low rev. I expected the car was noisy, I wouldn't mind that if it sounded ok. Unfortunately it's one of the worst engine note I have ever encountered. It's harsh, irrating and really put me off.
To sum up, it's a good test drive and allowed me to really understand the car. Unbelieveably, I still love the car despite the bad engine. I'm wondering how much can a Milltech exhaust cure the problem? I suppose not a lot. And someone actually remap the ECU to eliminate the lag?
The car drive really well and really confortable. But the engine is a massive disappointment. As told by the dealer, the car was fitted with the 225 upgrade. It's powerful and very quick, but the dramatic turbo lag is completely unaccepatable. And the noise produced by it is really just noise, and plenty of it even at low rev. I expected the car was noisy, I wouldn't mind that if it sounded ok. Unfortunately it's one of the worst engine note I have ever encountered. It's harsh, irrating and really put me off.
To sum up, it's a good test drive and allowed me to really understand the car. Unbelieveably, I still love the car despite the bad engine. I'm wondering how much can a Milltech exhaust cure the problem? I suppose not a lot. And someone actually remap the ECU to eliminate the lag?
Speak to Thorney motorsport, they can do all kinds of things to the car and would certainly be able to map the engine to your requirements and do something to make it sound better. The Milltek exhaust sounds great although it's a bit pricey!
Alternatively, hang on for a few months and see what the Eagle's like, although it may be out of your price range. At least then Europas will be cheaper as they'll be surplus to requirements.
Alternatively, hang on for a few months and see what the Eagle's like, although it may be out of your price range. At least then Europas will be cheaper as they'll be surplus to requirements.
Edited by kevin ritson on Monday 3rd December 15:14
black_rex said:
Finally, I've tested driven the Europa S at a dealer last Sat. This was the first time I saw one in metal. Loved the look and I found it's considerably easier to get in and out than the Elise. The boot is smaller than I expected. The interior plastic is horrendous as people suggested. But that's what I know before I go. And this can be cured by retro-fitting the GT leather pack, which was confirmed to be do-able at Lotus trim shop. So everything is good so far. I really love the car until the test drive!
The car drive really well and really confortable. But the engine is a massive disappointment. As told by the dealer, the car was fitted with the 225 upgrade. It's powerful and very quick, but the dramatic turbo lag is completely unaccepatable. And the noise produced by it is really just noise, and plenty of it even at low rev. I expected the car was noisy, I wouldn't mind that if it sounded ok. Unfortunately it's one of the worst engine note I have ever encountered. It's harsh, irrating and really put me off.
To sum up, it's a good test drive and allowed me to really understand the car. Unbelieveably, I still love the car despite the bad engine. I'm wondering how much can a Milltech exhaust cure the problem? I suppose not a lot. And someone actually remap the ECU to eliminate the lag?
http://www.castlesportscars.co.uk/index.php?mod=detail&id_veh=108The car drive really well and really confortable. But the engine is a massive disappointment. As told by the dealer, the car was fitted with the 225 upgrade. It's powerful and very quick, but the dramatic turbo lag is completely unaccepatable. And the noise produced by it is really just noise, and plenty of it even at low rev. I expected the car was noisy, I wouldn't mind that if it sounded ok. Unfortunately it's one of the worst engine note I have ever encountered. It's harsh, irrating and really put me off.
To sum up, it's a good test drive and allowed me to really understand the car. Unbelieveably, I still love the car despite the bad engine. I'm wondering how much can a Milltech exhaust cure the problem? I suppose not a lot. And someone actually remap the ECU to eliminate the lag?
I strongly suggest you speak to Ben @ Castle's AKA L1OONNY they have a car their which would suit you perfectly with all the conversion's done. Mark my word's you won't find a better Europa
Boggy
rfoster said:
Boggy - agree, that's really nice. Best looking Europa I've seen for certain. But £39k - ouch! That's Exige 240 territory.
I know I wouldn't buy it for any more then 30k but that's the cost? I think the only thing now that's stopping Europa's selling is the price, they should have been £28k from the start it just doesn't add up at 34k no matter whet they do to itBoggy
Boggy said:
Here we go:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/242948.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/170798.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/270257.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/286560.htm
Boggy
I have to say it makes me laugh, all from dealers. In fact there is only one private sale in the whole section the present Europas for sale...maybe its just coming up to Christmas...http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/242948.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/170798.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/270257.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/286560.htm
Boggy
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