Any One Know About BLACK DIAMOND Disks??????
Discussion
Hey, got a friend who can get me discount on new brakes for my car, however there by a company called black diamond. Very interesting website , http://www.blackdiamondperformance.com
They stay black, dont rust! light! Any one got these fitted? please let me know, gonna cost about £300 for the disks and need to know if its worth while, or just stick to the standard ones!
Cheers
They stay black, dont rust! light! Any one got these fitted? please let me know, gonna cost about £300 for the disks and need to know if its worth while, or just stick to the standard ones!
Cheers
I fitted some to a TVR for someone a couple of years ago; he reported poor braking and pedal feel, compared to his previous (standard) discs and pads.
I must admit, I was under the impression that the black finish was just a coating to normal cast iron discs, adthat it wore off to expose the usual shiny finish when you started using them, but I could be wrong.
You might want to try asking on the Griffith/Chimeara forums in the TVR section, as I think they're quite a common 'budget' drilled/grooved option amongst the TVR boys (the RV8 generation TVR's are a bit under braked and the 'proper' solution - new discs and calipers from AP - is a wee bit pricey).
I must admit, I was under the impression that the black finish was just a coating to normal cast iron discs, adthat it wore off to expose the usual shiny finish when you started using them, but I could be wrong.
You might want to try asking on the Griffith/Chimeara forums in the TVR section, as I think they're quite a common 'budget' drilled/grooved option amongst the TVR boys (the RV8 generation TVR's are a bit under braked and the 'proper' solution - new discs and calipers from AP - is a wee bit pricey).
The thought of a car with the performance of most TVRs with budget brakes is quiet scary. As I say just a thought, not a comment on the brakes.
I don't know anything about the black diamond discs (although I've heard of them). However in over two years of regular browsing here and on Seloc don't think I've ever seen them recommended for the Elise. I'm sure they look very smart though
I don't know anything about the black diamond discs (although I've heard of them). However in over two years of regular browsing here and on Seloc don't think I've ever seen them recommended for the Elise. I'm sure they look very smart though
TIPPER said:
The thought of a car with the performance of most TVRs with budget brakes is quiet scary.
It is indeed. Having owned a Griffith 500, I can tell you that there's a fair amount of half-arsed, scarily bad engineering under those pretty bodyshells, though - the brakes aren't the worst of it!The standard brakes on a Griffith/Chimaera, though, are single pot sliding calipers sourced from an old Ford...
Sam_68 said:
I fitted some to a TVR for someone a couple of years ago; he reported poor braking and pedal feel, compared to his previous (standard) discs and pads.
I must admit, I was under the impression that the black finish was just a coating to normal cast iron discs, adthat it wore off to expose the usual shiny finish when you started using them, but I could be wrong.
I've not used them myself, but I was under the same impression.I must admit, I was under the impression that the black finish was just a coating to normal cast iron discs, adthat it wore off to expose the usual shiny finish when you started using them, but I could be wrong.
Having a coating in the way must complicate the bedding in process and I wonder if your guinea pig did actually manage to bed the discs and pads in properly. In my experience this can make a big difference to the feel of the brakes. You don't say what pads he was using and pads can also make a big difference, of course.
unless you are going to make the disks from a non-ferrus material, then they will rust... (and no, you can't make disks from SS and expect them to work!)
like all these type of product, it's a marketing guimmick, much the same as gold coulord disks, etc etc.
end of the day, unless your going to go with exotics (MMC/Carbon/etc) then plain old cast steel is the material of choice, and steel rusts... (putting a coating on it is only going to impead their function and wear off in time...)
like all these type of product, it's a marketing guimmick, much the same as gold coulord disks, etc etc.
end of the day, unless your going to go with exotics (MMC/Carbon/etc) then plain old cast steel is the material of choice, and steel rusts... (putting a coating on it is only going to impead their function and wear off in time...)
Black Diamond discs together with their Predator brake pads are raved upon by BMW owners. They are the brakes to have on road and track day use M3's and such like. Take a look on www.bmwland.co.uk and do a search, you'll find some info there. And while we're on the subject can someone enlighten me regarding the somewhat obsessive way in which some Elise owners want to upgrade their brakes? The standard set-up seems to be more than adequate considering this vehicle wieghs bugger all, I remember owning a turbo charged 2.8 Capri that had standard 247mm discs with drums on the back and that was twice the weight! Elise has 288mm discs all round right? 7-800kgs!! Ok I know that you can change the feel and progression a bit by changing pads and flexy lines but surely this vehicle has more than enough braking power out of the box? Be interested in your thoughts (and findings) on this.
I tend to agree with Stan... nothing wrong with the standard Elise braking set-up.
Though I do tend to be quite light on brakes, anyway, since I heel-and-toe down the box, so using engine braking, as a matter of routine. Even so, a brake upgrade would be fairly well down my list of priorities, unless I was racing.
Though I do tend to be quite light on brakes, anyway, since I heel-and-toe down the box, so using engine braking, as a matter of routine. Even so, a brake upgrade would be fairly well down my list of priorities, unless I was racing.
I've never had a problem with standard Elise/Exige brakes for road use although im sure if you do lots of track days some light upgrades would help . Like somebody said the Elise has large discs and calipers compared to alot of saloons which weigh twice as much .Just another case of modifying for the sake of it .
Scuffers said:
so it's escaped your notice that up untill the Elise got ABS, they all ran servo-less brakes?
Perhaps that's part of the problem - many people who drive Elises will never have experienced underservo'd brakes before. Personally, I prefer them - it's a hell of a lot easier to heel-and-toe smoothly without a servo if you're clumsy sod like me!I really never had an issue with OEM disks or pads, though, even for track day use. Only complaint, if any, was that the MMC discs on my first S1 were a bit squeally if they didn't get a good work-out every now nad then, and bloody hopeless if you had been running long distances on a motorway in streaming wet weather without using the brakes - which could be interesting when it came to th exit! You soon remembered to touch them lightly every half mile or so, just to keep them warm anddry!
Stan. said:
Black Diamond discs together with their Predator brake pads are raved upon by BMW owners. They are the brakes to have on road and track day use M3's and such like. Take a look on www.bmwland.co.uk and do a search, you'll find some info there. And while we're on the subject can someone enlighten me regarding the somewhat obsessive way in which some Elise owners want to upgrade their brakes? The standard set-up seems to be more than adequate considering this vehicle wieghs bugger all, I remember owning a turbo charged 2.8 Capri that had standard 247mm discs with drums on the back and that was twice the weight! Elise has 288mm discs all round right? 7-800kgs!! Ok I know that you can change the feel and progression a bit by changing pads and flexy lines but surely this vehicle has more than enough braking power out of the box? Be interested in your thoughts (and findings) on this.
Sorry Stan but BMWs and the M3 in particular are hardly the best examples to use when talking about efficacy of brakes. I'll say no more on that.You've got to remember the whole thing about the Elise (a major factor for many owners anyway) is the whole touchy, feely feedback thing. Brakes are a very important part of that experience. Many Elise owners also regularly track their cars (Lotus on Track trackdays are the most popular). Finally many Elises have been modified (quite a few to over 300 bhp).
Bearing all that in mind then Elise owners look for the optimum performance/cost package and in that context better discs and pads like Pagids will offer the best of both worlds.
Finally I've worked my way through oem, greenstuff and mintex 1144 pads on my (unmodded) Elise. The Mintex are by far the best in terms of performance and feel. I'll probably be going for Pagids next though as I've started tracking the car.
I fitted some Black Diamond discs to my MGB. Whilst there was a huge improvement over previous braking performance, this was perhaps more attributable to the new calipers, new master cylinder and braided hoses that went on at the same time 
As far as I can tell, the discs are indeed standard iron, but with a black coating which is quickly removed by the pads - literally during the first couple of applications of the brakes. I did some gentle braking runs first to remove the coating before bedding the pads in properly; I didn't notice any adverse effect of having to do this. The black coating remains on the edges of the discs and the centre, thereby keeping those parts rust-free, but it does absolutely nothing to prevent rusting of the swept area.
TBH, for a high-performance application like the Elise, I would probably be minded to stick with the larger and better-known companies.
HTH
[k]
As far as I can tell, the discs are indeed standard iron, but with a black coating which is quickly removed by the pads - literally during the first couple of applications of the brakes. I did some gentle braking runs first to remove the coating before bedding the pads in properly; I didn't notice any adverse effect of having to do this. The black coating remains on the edges of the discs and the centre, thereby keeping those parts rust-free, but it does absolutely nothing to prevent rusting of the swept area.
TBH, for a high-performance application like the Elise, I would probably be minded to stick with the larger and better-known companies.
HTH
[k]
I run 12 groove balck diamond discs F&R on my Chimaera. The black coating does wear off though I've had no problems with rust.
They are great and I run them with Mintex pads, the predator pads on the other hand from BD - avoid, they had no feel and faded very quickly, 2 laps of Marham on a track day and I had virtually no braking coming to a chicane - fortunately only made of cones.
So to sum up the discs are fantastic - the pads are crap.
They are great and I run them with Mintex pads, the predator pads on the other hand from BD - avoid, they had no feel and faded very quickly, 2 laps of Marham on a track day and I had virtually no braking coming to a chicane - fortunately only made of cones.
So to sum up the discs are fantastic - the pads are crap.
I fitted a set of their discs to my TT, after 3 laps of donnington the session was stopped cos someone had spun, and I heard a metallic click, thought nothing of it. Heard it again a few minutes later. After the session I stopped and both front discs had split across the diameter, and these were relatively new and had been bedded in properly!
I got a new set and after bedding these in I did some hard road driving and these warped badly. After a long argument with the company who supplied them to me I got a third set...and to cut a long story short, these split across the diameter too.
Needless to say Im not a fan. Also found they ate pads like no ones business cos of the grooves on the surface in the short space of time I had them in one piece...
Jonny
I got a new set and after bedding these in I did some hard road driving and these warped badly. After a long argument with the company who supplied them to me I got a third set...and to cut a long story short, these split across the diameter too.
Needless to say Im not a fan. Also found they ate pads like no ones business cos of the grooves on the surface in the short space of time I had them in one piece...
Jonny
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